Topic: "RPG" stat mod  (Read 8989 times)


rudy

« on: December 30, 2022, 09:25:58 PM »
Hi All, seeking input on an idea.

Let me start by saying I know this is not going to be a lot of people's cup of tea. What I'd like to do is create a mod that "allows" the regulated improvement of stats and other character aspects.

This cannot be done within the game itself; there's currently no way to modify attributes using mods. However, my idea is to have a mod that uses CheatEngine as an external tool in the following way:

There would be a menu of crafting choices within the game that would help you track 'experience' points. Like, one choice on the menu would be "Killed a bear", and it would produce, say, 50 experience tokens (weighing 0). Another one might be "built shelter" and it might be worth 1 experience token.

There would then be a set of rules indicating how much experience you would need to increase an attribute using cheat engine. Like "To increase an attribute, spend 3 times the current attribute in experience tokens". Then the player would Discard the appropriate number of experience tokens, and then use cheatEngine to increase the attribute by 1.

Currently I have a vague set of rules I use to formulate the improvement of my own characters in this way; the purpose of the mod would be to track the 'experience' more precisely, and allow a set of shared guidelines for "leveling up" in this way.

Other things that could be modified would be character weight or height, or skills.

Interested in feedback on the idea but, most importantly, whether there is ANYONE besides myself that would be interested in something like this. If not, it's not really worth the effort of making it, and I'll just continue to use my informal system.

Likes are appreciated, but will not be interpreted as interest in using the mod.

Best!

Tinker

« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2022, 10:03:49 PM »
Definitely interested, in fact these things should be part of the base game code. My own alpha version game starts with 100 skills and improving skills leads slowly to improvements in abilities, also not using a skill leads the atrophy which can lead to decreasing abilities.

Using cheat engine fixes may prove problematic for none windows users.

rudy

« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2022, 02:29:58 AM »
I acknowledge it won't work well for all OS, but I'm not aware of alternative paths.

So, what kinds of things should give experience. My thoughts so far:

Hunting creatures, obviously, with more XP for the more difficult and dangerous ones.

Killing Njerpez warriors, or Foreign Traders, probably the most.

Completing quests.

Successfully trapped creatures give less? Or the same?

Fishing. Perhaps some XP based on so many pounds of fish caught.

Building. Amounts for shelters and log cabins?

Some generic amount for X hours of crafting, I'm thinking. Like, "If you spend at least 4 hours crafting *something* in a day, gain 1 XP" This can cover a lot of stuff, from tanning hides to carpentry to cooking, to any number of modded recipes.

Learning new rituals.

Visiting new towns.

Very significant trades?

Agriculture? Something like "for every four spaces harvested, gain 1 XP". A once-a-year kind of influx.

1 XP per cave fully explored?

What else?




Tinker

« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2022, 09:54:32 AM »
Balance is probably important, especially for those who play differently. For example hermits who avoid contact with others, those that ignore rituals and quests or those that live exclusively in caves.

I will consider some options and get back to you.

rudy

« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2023, 02:09:41 AM »
First draft. I'm CERTAIN there's a lot I'm missing, or have badly balanced.

50 First time in a cultural region (once per culture)
20 Completing any quest
10 First time visiting a given town.
5  Fully exploring a cave.
50 Killing a bear, njerpez warrior, or foreign trader (triple for the first time for each)
20 Killing a robber, elk, wolf, or lynx.
15 Killing a seal, reindeer, or glutton.
7  Killing a fox, beaver or badger.
3  Killing other animal.
X  Fishing: 1 per 5 pounds of fish.
X  Building: 10 per space of completed log building.
X  Building: 5 per space of completed Kota.
X  Crafting: 1 per hour spent crafting, cooking or building anything not covered by other XP options.
X  Agriculture: 1 per space that you plant and harvest.

rudy

« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2023, 05:45:49 PM »
Here is a working version of the mod. I still consider it very much beta, and probably will until I get some feedback/input (from Tinker or others) and adjust accordingly.

Files are attached here, along with a picture of the menu. The last three options don't actually change your character's values (that is not possible to do with a mod), but do convert experience points into "spent experience points", and then instruct you to use Cheat Engine or other character editor appropriately.


Bert Preast

« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2023, 06:06:44 PM »
I don't wish to put a downer on anything, but this seems like a lot of work for what could be accomplished with a simple spreadsheet that people could download and fill out as they play. 

If you do want to make it, I suggest rarity should be a factor in assigning experience tokens to kills - a snake or polecat is a much harder kill to get than an elk, for example.  Not in the number of axe blows required of course, but in the time invested to find or trap one!

I would also add triple experience for killing anything for the first time.  Maybe replace "significant trade" for "traded masterwork item", too.

rudy

« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2023, 06:24:37 PM »
I don't wish to put a downer on anything, but this seems like a lot of work for what could be accomplished with a simple spreadsheet that people could download and fill out as they play.
Totally agree that the spreadsheet could work. For me, I prefer having the menu because it means I don't need to "tab out" of my game in order to access my exp tracker. The tracking, at least, is all done within the game, even if the actual editing step cannot be. Also I find it much more 'neat' (for lack of a better word) to have an experience tracker that I can see in my inventory. This is all very subjective, of course! :)

If you do want to make it, I suggest rarity should be a factor in assigning experience tokens to kills - a snake or polecat is a much harder kill to get than an elk, for example.  Not in the number of axe blows required of course, but in the time invested to find or trap one!

I would also add triple experience for killing anything for the first time.  Maybe replace "significant trade" for "traded masterwork item", too.
Very good point on the rarity of the kills. Snake I'll definitely move up at least one 'rung'. Maybe polecat, too.

I like the idea of triple for killing anything the first time. Only downside is that it requires that the player track and remember which animals they have already killed. Maybe I'll use that just for the combat options: it's easy to remember whether you've killed a foreign trader or not, for example.

I think I'm going to stick with "significant trade"; for one, I don't think it should be worth experience points every time you get a masterwork paddle or masterwork staff, for example. It's limited to once per day, per the description you can see in-game, and there are examples given for the player's reference.

Each of the things on the list has descriptive text the player sees once opening up the option in the menu.

Appreciate the feedback very much!

Bert Preast

« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2023, 07:35:57 PM »
It may be a better use of time to irritate Sami into giving us a third game course  :)

The mechanics are already there for pretty much everything you want to do, and a game course would keep everything in-game without requiring any bookkeeping from the player.  What would be really great would be a game course that could be modded, so stuff like "Looking Smooth in Snakeskin Shoes", or "Masterwork Axe Collection" or whatever could be a task.

rudy

« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2023, 07:51:00 PM »
I mean, in terms of 'time', the mod is finished. There may be some rebalancing, based on comments such as yours, but there's nothing else to add.

I wouldn't say no to a moddable game course, though!

Bert Preast

« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2023, 10:00:24 PM »
If the time is already invested then I waste my breath.  I was hoping to crush your hopes and dreams and thus nudge you back to working on the BAC mod  ;D

rudy

« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2023, 01:00:09 AM »
Based on the input so far, here's the revised "tier" list of animals, taking into account the ideas of ease of finding, ease of killing, and significance of the kill.

.Prey Tier 1. (10) "rock" [effort:0] *COMMON* /.1/ [noquality]
{-} 'Killing a stag, wolf, or lynx.' [optional]
{-} 'Or, killing a bear with a trap.' [optional]

.Prey Tier 2. (7) "rock" [effort:0] *COMMON* /.1/ [noquality]
{-} 'Killing an elk, boar, or seal.' [optional]

.Prey Tier 3. (4) "rock" [effort:0] *COMMON* /.1/ [noquality]
{-} 'Killing a fox, snake, glutton,' [optional]
{-} 'reindeer, beaver or polecat.' [optional]

.Prey Tier 4. (2) "rock" [effort:0] *COMMON* /.1/ [noquality]
{-} 'Killing a wild sow, or badger.' [optional]
{-} 'Or, hunting and killing a bird.' [optional]
{-} 'Double for eagle owls, ravens,' [optional]
{-} 'goshawks, and swans.' [optional]

.Prey Tier 5. (1) "rock" [effort:0] *COMMON* /.1/ [noquality]
{-} 'Killing a squirrel, ermine,' [optional]
{-} 'hare, weasel, or pine-marten.' [optional]
{-} 'Trapping and killing a bird.' [optional]
{-} 'Double for eagle owls, ravens,' [optional]
{-} 'goshawks, and swans.' [optional]


The only other change is that I combined the dwellings into one option, and then added a "Quick EXP" option that will be faster to use once players are sufficiently familiar with the exp rewards.

Tomorrow I'll upload a 'final' (not really final) version in the releases section.

rudy

« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2023, 01:12:42 AM »
And here's an add-on to the exp mod about mana, and spells. The difference between this and my magic mod (in the releases section), is that the magic mod limits itself to the constraints of modding. You do not need Cheat Engine to use Magic Mod.

This is a first draft of a way to structure "spells" that are created via cheat engine or similar modding.


Basic idea is you have daily mana equal to INT/2 + WILL,  and access to 'spells' depending on your INT.  As simple as the create water spell, which uses some mana (and tells you to modify your thirst stat in cheat engine) to as complex as Mark Tree/Treewalk, which creates "Marked Tree" tokens, which you then record the X/Y locations of on the main map, and then teleport between using a lot of mana.

The more advanced options can only be obtained through increasing your intelligence/wisdom sufficiently, such as via the exp options.


Bert Preast

« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2023, 06:16:08 PM »
I like the sound of tokens for animal kills even if not to raise attributes, but rather just to keep count of my kills.  I currently use a boneyard, but sometimes I am too laden to carry the bones so the kill gets forgotten.

The thought also occurs that something like this could also be used to keep track of scars from serious wounds.  Perhaps a serious wound could also grant a few experience tokens anyway?  Simulating an increase in ability to push on while wounded rather than curling up and blubbing for one's mumsie?  The experience that while a wound may look grim, you can get through it?

rudy

« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2023, 07:55:47 PM »
I like the sound of tokens for animal kills even if not to raise attributes, but rather just to keep count of my kills.
I could very, very easily do that, but it would be a separate menu itself. Since recipes can't create two different things, I can't have it create both experience tokens and a kill counter at the same time.

Would you use it, as its own menu? Basically each creature would have its own entry (I'd probably have to do a bit of grouping to keep it to 25 menu items)

Bear
Stag
Elk
Wolf
Reindeer
Boar
Grey Seal
Ringer Seal
Lynx
Glutton
Sow
Squirrel
Hare
Fox
Arctic Fox
Snake
Badger
Beaver
Ermine or Weasel
Polecat
Black/Willow/Hazel Grouse
Goshawk/Eagle Owl
Capercaille
Goldeneye/Kuikka/Mallard
Swan/Raven

That's all the spaces on the menu, but rearrangements could happen.