Topic: i know it goes aginst the spirit but im frustrated with the fact its perma death  (Read 1511 times)


« on: April 30, 2021, 06:07:33 AM »
you ever know that feeling when you accidently set your entire stock pile of tools on fire on accident but cant roll back?

« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2021, 07:59:46 AM »
in the same spirit losing a master work long bow to fucking ROBBERS AGAIN

Ara D.

« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2021, 06:29:16 PM »
Manual saves, manual saves my friend. Put a copy of your character folder in a separate file, mines called cheater btw. You die you can copy the file back into the UrW folder and your no longer dead. We call it save scumming.

PALU

« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2021, 01:01:31 AM »
As Ara D. said, copying the save folder allows you to restore it. I typically do it after each game session in case the game gets corrupted (I also use the same technique when investigating game mechanics to ensure tests use the same starting conditions for each test session, as skill levels can sometimes increase during testing, affecting the investigation results). My backup folders thus get called copy of character name 1... I then delete all backups except the last few ones when I reach 100 or so to keep the number down.

Tinker

« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2021, 10:23:00 AM »
Personally I would prefer it if there was no option to resurrect characters, that is why I choose to only play or make permadeath games.

I understand a reason to load saves for testing/development purposes, but in normal play even in standalone single player games cheating death is still cheating yourself and I refuse to do it and would prefer if the temptation was not there. This is just my personal ethics and I realise others have different views.

PALU

« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2021, 11:10:37 AM »
I disagree with Tinker's desire to force the personal preferences onto everyone else.

I'm perfectly OK with there being an option to play in "ironman mode" (or whatever each individual game happens to call it), but it should be a selection in all but the games for which instant game over either doesn't make sense, or it somehow doesn't make sense not to have it.

I'm aware that some people have trouble restraining themselves from save scumming if the option is there, and it certainly would help them to not cheat themselves if they can block the ability to do so. However, it certainly doesn't help them to train themselves to not give in to temptation, but games are typically played because the player enjoys them, not as tools for self improvement in minor ways.

Finally, I see absolutely no reason for the ultra hardcore stance that you have to start over from scratch if the game crashes (without the player [subconsciously] causing it to crash), or a power outage or hardware failure results in a crash. I respect that there are people who take that stance: it's fine with me as long as they don't try to force it onto others, but don't expect me to actually understand the reasoning.

Also, note that I'm talking about single player games exclusively. I have no tolerance for cheating in multi player games and no respect for braggarts who save scum and then claim to have pulled off incredible feats but conveniently "forget" to mention the save scumming part.

« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2021, 09:46:36 PM »
i also want to complain about ROBBERS THE FUCKING BASTARDS. they only seem to start spawning when you have a certain amount of value on your person and seem to continually get harder until you get knocked out and stolen from back under the some value limit. i cant explain the sheer catharsis i felt when i finally killed a robber group after getting fucked over by them over and over only to then get my best weapons and furs stolen from another group of robbers after i left my house.

PALU

« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2021, 09:13:02 AM »
i also want to complain about ROBBERS THE FUCKING BASTARDS. they only seem to start spawning when you have a certain amount of value on your person and seem to continually get harder until you get knocked out and stolen from back under the some value limit. i cant explain the sheer catharsis i felt when i finally killed a robber group after getting fucked over by them over and over only to then get my best weapons and furs stolen from another group of robbers after i left my house.
I think it's a case of bad luck and observation bias. It probably helps to have a character with good eye sight that results in a higher chance to detect the groups on the overland map, and so to avoid them.

My experience with robbers is that it's rather random, as I've had early characters being robbed but nothing taken as they didn't find anything of value...
As long as my character survives I think it's fine, as I can still slowly accumulate tools at the homestead (but it WAS rather frustrating to encounter robbers when I'd finally accumulated enough hides to go trying to buy some initial tools and thus carried my total accumulated wealth. Back to square 2).

« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2021, 05:53:31 AM »
well i just obtained a mastwork long sword and im not sure what do with because of how i obtained it from robbers. so we all know that robbers use iron weapons well i got a group of 4 and one charged me with a masterowrok longsword. i though it was the end of me until i mannaged to parry it and get him to drop it i grabbed it and proceeded to slaughter them all with only minor injures. i dont know what to think about robbers anymore

PALU

« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2021, 10:06:42 AM »
High risk/(only very occasionally) high reward?

Brygun

« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2021, 03:49:44 PM »
When I wrote the character journals for the forums each post had a <name> and that was the filename of the save. So if things went into a bag glitch I could back up to to it. I have let the characters die sometimes. Othertimes its been some ooops like holding down the walk button while watching TV and the character went into freezing water and died. If Im putting all the extra effort into writing for the forums Id like to buffer from oops. It would be pretty pointless to keep writing day 1, day 1, day 1 posts each time.


Matti-patti

« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2021, 04:55:53 PM »
Personally I would prefer it if there was no option to resurrect characters, that is why I choose to only play or make permadeath games.

I understand a reason to load saves for testing/development purposes, but in normal play even in standalone single player games cheating death is still cheating yourself and I refuse to do it and would prefer if the temptation was not there. This is just my personal ethics and I realise others have different views.

Saving and reloading is not a feature in Unreal World or most roguelikes, so it is indeed literal cheating. Or rather, it's what's called "save scumming". It's the literal original definition of that term (using backup save games to save and reload in roguelikes where saving and reloading is not a feature otherwise) that was later taken by the larger gaming community and misapplied to any abusive saving and reloading (even in games where this is a feature).

I'm not sure what exactly you are suggesting though? There needs to be a save file somewhere in the system. Since there is a save file you can copy and backup it. Some roguelike have had some preventive measures, IIRC ADOM erased and rewrote your save every time you loaded it so you had to exit the program to save scum, but that did not prevent it. Are there any permadeath modes that actually successfully prevent save scumming (save by saving to a cloud, which IIRC was already available in Diablo 2 and was there for that exact reason as it would not have been true permadeath otherwise)?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2021, 05:30:16 PM by Matti-patti »

Tinker

« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2021, 10:23:47 PM »
Well any system that allows you to save to continue again later is open to abuse, by people who like to cheat themselves. Games I write have a level of encryption protection that makes it harder but of course not impossible. Personally I rely on my self control and as a developer I also build in backdoors for testing though they are not in release versions.

I would emphasise that these are my personal views and I am not trying to impose them on anyone, though if you play one of my releses then you might feel I am imposing something on you, but as everything I write is FOSS it only costs you the download time so no harm done.

trowftd

« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2021, 11:04:20 PM »
I am personally fine with how the save system works right now. I had to format my pc and I just copied my save files to not lose my characters. And it is nice to be able to copy the save if I wanna get really far with my characters. This game gets very hard sometimes. :P
Overall, cheating or save scumming in this case, in singleplayer games are completely fine IMO. I am not affecting anybodies game experience. If the game is multiplayer however, that's another case.

 

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