Topic: Blocking Weapons and Assorted Combat Discussion  (Read 3362 times)


Shadowdweller

« on: October 04, 2017, 01:14:56 AM »
For you combat gods out there -
I've long avoided blocking attacks with weapons because it degrades weapon quality.  Recently, I've started to revisit the tactic on low-dodge characters as I've started to realize that there is plenty of wealth to replace that high-end spear and survival is much more valuable.  Anyway, I was wondering whether certain weapons tend to be much more resistant to taking damage while blocking?  It has seemed like the spears I've used to block have often seemed to degrade quickly; but some of the swords seemed like they lasted a bit longer. 

I've also been playing around with death blow and other target locations.  What I think I've noticed - skull attacks seem to do comparatively little damage, but also deal little damage to an animal's pelt.  Slashing and piercing attacks against the neck seem to bleed a lot.  Abdomen attacks deal a lot of extra damage, but also damage pelts.  (And blunt attacks against the abdomen often cause bleeding).  Not sure what good targeting the thorax does?  Bleeding/extra damage from piercing attacks?

It seems like head-based attacks might have an increased chance to knock a foe unconscious; failure, though, frequently hits the shoulders, which rarely has any special effect.  Any critical (groin/eye/thorax/abdomen) seems to be able to knock an enemy unconscious on an attack.  Arm attacks obviously can make an opponent drop their weapon and hinder their counterattacks, which might be beneficial if they're wielding something nasty, like a big sword or axe.  Leg attacks seem to be able to knock an enemy down, which has its uses (may give you a turn as they get up or help keep fleeing prey animals from running away).  Body attacks seem to be the easiest to land, and generally what I target first.

Anyone with relevant experience in the matter who can support or refute these ideas?  Or targeting advice in combat?  Maybe the main targeting consideration should just be which areas are more lightly armored...
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 02:00:43 AM by Shadowdweller »

LoLotov

« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2017, 01:55:34 AM »
As far as thorax, I think I've noticed this when I myself am hit there: A hard hit to the thorax may have added a small amount of stamina drain, lowering my overall combat effectiveness in addition to the injury rating. Plus, when throwing javelins at least, probably arrows or anything else rolling point damage too, a lucky hit to the thorax (presumably the heart) is an instant kill. That's for certain on Njerps, bandits, bears, etc. As stated, not sure about there being extra stamina loss because of a thorax injury, but it makes sense.

Was playing around with target locations while playing with a Njerp, and subsequent injuries to the same body part seem to make extremely traumatic injuries more likely. One minor dog bite each to the knee and forearm, and those targets were nearly cut in half by subsequent axe strikes.
Iiiiii juuuuust want to set the woooooooorld onnnn fiiiiiiiiireeeeeee.... Iiiiiiii don't want to start a flame in your heeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrt.
And with your admissiiiiion you feeeeel the same, I'llllll have reached the goaaaal I'm dreamiiiing offfff, believe meeeeee

JEB Davis

« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2017, 01:59:27 AM »
FWIW, I think shields are the way to go. Even with a fairly low skill, shields are good at blocking hand weapon attacks. And of course they are very valuable against missile attacks.

Your comments regarding blocking with spears vs swords makes perfect sense considering their materials.

In the past I relied mostly on high dodge skill for defence, but find that shields are easy enough to obtain and due to their effortless defence against missiles, are superior to dodge.

Shadowdweller

« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2017, 02:11:11 AM »
FWIW, I think shields are the way to go. Even with a fairly low skill, shields are good at blocking hand weapon attacks. And of course they are very valuable against missile attacks.
Shields are certainly great against dangerous bow-users, and I've had some pretty combat-effective shield-users.  I'm a little leery defending in melee with them atm since my last attempt to use a moderate shield skill in place of a moderate dodge skill ended abruptly by instakill from a bear.  Notwithstanding they limit weapon choice a bit.  One-shotting enemies and prey with even the flat of a battlesword certainly makes me feel powerful at least...

spamgoose

« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2017, 03:03:29 AM »
I definitely suck at combat, so I would love to see some of the answers here. I've watched videos of people playing when they take on Njerpez villages, and do all these different patterns of attack.. making me wonder if there's something I'm missing.

I will add one bit of pseudo-knowledge (empirical?). I've found that head attacks succeed really well when the NPC is otherwise engaged. Even if he knows I am there, if it's my first attack (and I have friends), I'll go for the head, and often will land a death blow, or at least something that knocks them out immediately. I like to hunt Njerps with dogs, so usually the dogs get there first and get the Njerps attention, then when I arrive, it's often only one good blow to the head necessary. As soon as the NPC engages me, I retreat to body attacks because I usually can't land anything else.

LoLotov

« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2017, 04:06:45 AM »
Combat is my favorite part of this game, it's a very unique system and a lot of fun to mess around with. I start most characters on There Be Robbers!, so I frequently do a 3-6 on 1 fight with minimal clothing and a less than ideal weapon set. The key is to make sure your blind spots are blocked by trees, and always try counter-strikes to the legs with your weapon's blunt damage (if your weapon skill is better than your dodge, which for the purpose of this, it is). This will make sure you're still dishing out damage to the people trying to surround you, while you continue targeting whoever is the worst injured until they're unconscious and out of the fight. It's always better to counter-strike over dodge if at all possible, just target arms or legs to interrupt their attacks and limit their attack rate. The  most powerful thing in the whole combat system is Looking at your opponent and seeing where he actually has, or does not have, armor. Bandits rarely if ever have anything more than the odd piece of leather clothing or a ratty overcoat, so they're actually not too tough if you target on them correctly. However, the occasional Njerp will have ~40 pounds of decent armor and be extremely difficult to attack.

My attack combo, for the combat style of close to even (and quite high) spears and axes, and as much armor as I can find:

Open with as many javelins thrown as possible, targeting the body for random wounds and occasional instakills; sometimes you'll get 'em all off, sometimes you'll be caught with one held. Wait for them to be one or two tiles away, DROP your javelin if you still have it, and wield whatever you have the highest skill with. They should have moved next to you without attacking while you wielded, but you may have to immediately counter-strike, and you may have to wait a turn. Whatever you do, don't just move into the adjacent tile and give them a free hit. Your javelins should have weakened a few points of the first target if there are multiple enemies, so give him a primary attack attribute (most damage from the weapon) to the legs. Should put him on the ground immediately, and once he's there, attack his arms every time he tries to wield a weapon, and go for head shots and a quick knockout when his hands are empty.

His undamaged buddies should have rolled up by now, so turn to adjust if you have to, and wail on the first guy with all your might. Counter-strike to their arms and legs as needed to disarm/knock them down, but otherwise target the second (overall) enemy's head or body and try to get him out of it as quickly as possible. Finish up the third with the same legs/arms/head you gave the first guy, the others should just be milling around nearby swapping weapons and tiring themselves out until they get a clear route to run towards you. Your armor should be pretty beat up by now, so if there are more than three, you should start to expect increasingly severe injuries, and potential death, from now on.

However, you followed my combo, and aren't too fatigued, and you have enough armor to equip a small army, so you battle on, courage unwavering. It is time to be as defensive as possible. Attack arms, counter body for occasional severe damage and arm/leg shots, start dodging when you feel a particular target might have the upper hand on you. Keep them fumbling for their weapons, and pick at their ability to fight effectively. First three enemies you killed as fast as possible, as few individual attacks as possible, and everyone after that you kill with a thousand cuts while trying to avoid the same fate.

Edge damage is best for limbs and poorly armored torsos, as it can do quite severe damage to these targets (the infamous Nearly Severed knee is quite possible on a first strike with just a hand axe and results in instant unconsciousness). Point is excellent for piercing torso armor, and can cause occasional decent bleeding, but is much less likely to render a limb inoperable than edge. Blunt is best of all against armor, so it's your damage of choice when counter attacking. It rarely causes the kind of severe injuries the others do, but a quick knockdown/disarm on one bandit out of two or three of them midattack saves you a turn of double or triple hits later while he stands back up, or changes weapons.
Iiiiii juuuuust want to set the woooooooorld onnnn fiiiiiiiiireeeeeee.... Iiiiiiii don't want to start a flame in your heeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrt.
And with your admissiiiiion you feeeeel the same, I'llllll have reached the goaaaal I'm dreamiiiing offfff, believe meeeeee

Shadowdweller

« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2017, 05:01:07 AM »
Combat is my favorite part of this game, it's a very unique system and a lot of fun to mess around with. I start most characters on There Be Robbers!, so I frequently do a 3-6 on 1 fight with minimal clothing and a less than ideal weapon set.
Interesting.  I love the URW combat system and I like experimenting with There Be Robbers, but I can never bear to start an ongoing game with it.  It just feels too...I don't know...like I'm missing out or something...to start with a fortune in weapons and clothing (presuming one lives).  I love building myself up, so I always go for the basic start, without any game courses.  Trading if necessary for that first handaxe...I mean, how often would you otherwise actually use a stone axe?  (Except maybe to equip that army of old men).  I also don't like playing a character that starts out as too much of a combat god.  I find myself using completely different tactics (and a lot more cowardice) when trying to survive with mediocre combat abilities.  Though I'd like to get better at the tactics of actually fighting.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 05:16:31 AM by Shadowdweller »

LoLotov

« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2017, 02:09:51 AM »
(presuming one lives)

This is the important part for me, I make no qualms about essentially playing this game wrong, but that's the best part about it! I pretty much just pick fights with anyone Spiritually safe to do so with, pile up the loot and farm animals, trade for food til I have the basic smokehouse and trap fence, and see how long I can go before I drown or something else stupid (of me). I pretty much don't die in fights anymore, I used to easily and early with better set up characters, so it's worth practicing. My one save scummed character was a really great way to experiment, kept testing the same situation for better and better outcomes until I could handle it safely anytime it comes up.
Iiiiii juuuuust want to set the woooooooorld onnnn fiiiiiiiiireeeeeee.... Iiiiiiii don't want to start a flame in your heeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrt.
And with your admissiiiiion you feeeeel the same, I'llllll have reached the goaaaal I'm dreamiiiing offfff, believe meeeeee

Silenia

« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2017, 02:19:00 AM »
(presuming one lives)

This is the important part for me, I make no qualms about essentially playing this game wrong, but that's the best part about it! I pretty much just pick fights with anyone Spiritually safe to do so with, pile up the loot and farm animals, trade for food til I have the basic smokehouse and trap fence, and see how long I can go before I drown or something else stupid (of me). I pretty much don't die in fights anymore, I used to easily and early with better set up characters, so it's worth practicing. My one save scummed character was a really great way to experiment, kept testing the same situation for better and better outcomes until I could handle it safely anytime it comes up.

I usually have at least two characters active between which I switch. One is for surviving and playing it safe, the other is for when I'm more in the mood for risky behaviour. Gives me the best of two worlds.

spamgoose

« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2017, 11:10:49 PM »
(presuming one lives)

This is the important part for me, I make no qualms about essentially playing this game wrong, but that's the best part about it! I pretty much just pick fights with anyone Spiritually safe to do so with, pile up the loot and farm animals, trade for food til I have the basic smokehouse and trap fence, and see how long I can go before I drown or something else stupid (of me). I pretty much don't die in fights anymore, I used to easily and early with better set up characters, so it's worth practicing. My one save scummed character was a really great way to experiment, kept testing the same situation for better and better outcomes until I could handle it safely anytime it comes up.

Meh, wrong is in the eye of the beholder. It's a high risk/high reward start and that's cool in its own right.

Sometimes when I am making a character, I will mess something up in the build, or decide against some choice I made. But because I can't go all the way back, I'll play the character with the escaped slave start just to practice. I once made a character where something went wrong (don't remember what), so I annoyedly put skills in random things, and started.

For some reason, luck was on my side that day, and I managed to get the whole Njerpez village fighting each other. They all killed each other one by one while I hid. I grabbed a scimitar, came out of hiding and killed the last one who was pretty hobbled. Suddenly I had hundreds of squirrel hides worth of goods, and a village to myself. The character was so random, that it felt weird playing it, so I just saved and left it there, with the plan of coming back one day. It was one version back so I probably never will. Still... the violent starts can be ridiculously wealthy, if you don't die.

Shadowdweller

« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2017, 02:06:36 AM »
Meh, wrong is in the eye of the beholder. It's a high risk/high reward start and that's cool in its own right.
What he said.  There's not a right or wrong way to play the game - just comparing what I consider fun.

Silenia

« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2017, 02:19:59 AM »
And this right here is what I love about the Unreal World community: we all play the game our own way, and that's not only okay: it is welcomed and celebrated.

Shadowdweller

« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2017, 09:21:41 PM »
So, back to combat.  Something else I've noticed:  Ranged attacks don't get the usual defenses, so it's generally a LOT easier to hit things with ranged attacks at short range.  So - throw your weapons, at least as long as you're not equipping the enemy with better armaments.  Even rocks can knock someone unconscious, and therefore are potentially lethal!  Be careful, however - if the enemy manages to close and attack you while you're still throwing or shooting, they will interrupt the attack and get a free round on you.

Silenia

« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2017, 09:53:59 PM »
One way to handle that issue it to equip a single-handed weapon on main hand and use the other to throw javelins or rocks. That way if your enemy closes the distance before you expect it, at least you don't lose yet more rounds to switch to melee weaponry.

Working with a double two-handed set (bow&arrows for distance, two-handed melee weapon) is a perfectly valid method as well but timing becomes a *lot* more tricky and you will frequently end up giving your enemy a free round either to attack you, to close the distance/maneuver in such a way that they, not you, will likely have the first attack, or if not will see you forced to attack/counterstrike with a double-handed weapon used single-handedly for a turn. Because of this, it's mostly viable for characters with good dodge, good armor, or both.

Judgement of when to move towards an enemy or when to move slightly away/to the side to increase chances of the first attack being yours once it comes to melee is useful as well.

Shadowdweller

« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2017, 01:54:49 AM »
Has anyone noticed whether facing makes any difference beyond being able to see attacks and side-facing shields?  (Is it easier to attack/defend on the weapon-side, right in front, etc?)