Topic: using "reputation" as currency  (Read 1284 times)


jojojay

« on: May 29, 2017, 10:47:21 PM »
the game currently does not have a currency, which is realistic. however, i think that implementing a currency would make the game-play better. one way to do this and still be historically accurate would be to use reputation as a currency.  my idea is that whenever you give away("sell") an item, you would get reputation with the village/culture that you gave the item to. the reputation gained would be exactly equal to the items value you then could use your reputation to "buy" items. the reputation cost would be exactly equal to the value of the items.  furthermore, if you trade an item of 200 value for an item of 100 value, you would gain 100 reputation. and if you have 100 reputation, you can use it and an item of 100 value to buy an item of 200 value.

the player would not be able to buy an item using reputation if the player does not have enough reputation, obviously

if you kill or steal from a certian group, your reputation with that group will go down. groups will not trade with you if you have a negative reputation; you must give them items to restore your reputation. (maybe quests could increase reputation instead of giving actual rewards?)

i think that the bartering system should also be similar to fallout's, so that you could freely add and remove items from both sides of the barter to attempt to balance the barter.

maybe, after you get the reputation system in , you could make it so that if you have a low enough reputation with a group, members of that group would demand that you repay your debt and attack you if you refuse. (maybe send hunting parties after you to force you to pay up/kill you?) of course, this could be done later or not at all. but i feel that this game urgently needs a currency system.

Labtop 215

« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2017, 01:31:55 AM »
We sort of already do have a currency.  It's called meat cuts.  The values of various things can be broken down into cuts of meat.  The quality of the preparation of this meat can change it's buying power, as well as how it is preserved (if it is preserved).

Furthermore, if you are generous in-game with your trades, future trades are less of a hassle, and things get steadily less expensive.  However I doubt that it would ever be accurate for the people in the old days accept an item they know is of half the value for an item they know to be worth more, no matter how generous you have been previously.  It just doesn't stretch that far.

Lastly, I doubt people will simply be okay with you murdering one of their fellow village mates, no matter how much you give.  Human life can't be replaced, and especially not with mere goods.  If you fire an arrow at a hostile entity like a bear closing in on an old man, and you just accidentally hit the old man, you could say it was an accident, and people may or may not forgive you, but outright murder should be met with retributive violence, not a fine.

jojojay

« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2017, 02:48:44 AM »
We sort of already do have a currency.  It's called meat cuts.  The values of various things can be broken down into cuts of meat.  The quality of the preparation of this meat can change it's buying power, as well as how it is preserved (if it is preserved).

Furthermore, if you are generous in-game with your trades, future trades are less of a hassle, and things get steadily less expensive.  However I doubt that it would ever be accurate for the people in the old days accept an item they know is of half the value for an item they know to be worth more, no matter how generous you have been previously.  It just doesn't stretch that far.

Lastly, I doubt people will simply be okay with you murdering one of their fellow village mates, no matter how much you give.  Human life can't be replaced, and especially not with mere goods.  If you fire an arrow at a hostile entity like a bear closing in on an old man, and you just accidentally hit the old man, you could say it was an accident, and people may or may not forgive you, but outright murder should be met with retributive violence, not a fine.

i simply want to not  have a large hassle out of balencing trades. currency is the way to do that. meat cuts do not work like currency here, becouse they still make balencing trade a hassle.

JEB Davis

« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2017, 03:43:55 AM »
The barter system is one of the great things about this game that helps make it unique.
Why replace it with an abstract numbers-based system like other games have?

There is no currency because in Iron Age Finland there was no currency.
Reputation is already a major influence on bartering.
Guessing and figuring out what to trade is part of the fun!  ;D

Rhaikh

« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2017, 04:38:38 AM »
I agree that not having actual currency is a good thing, however I also agree that trying to come up with a balanced trade is often an unnecessary chore.  It could use QoL improvements.  "What of what I have do you want" usually ends up in them asking for your masterwork weapon.  Maybe a feature to ask, "How many of this stack of widgets would you want," or "Among these four different items what would you want"
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 04:40:23 AM by Rhaikh »

jojojay

« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2017, 06:22:19 AM »
The barter system is one of the great things about this game that helps make it unique.
Why replace it with an abstract numbers-based system like other games have?

There is no currency because in Iron Age Finland there was no currency.
Reputation is already a major influence on bartering.
Guessing and figuring out what to trade is part of the fun!  ;D

bartering is a PAIN.  it would improve the gameplay to improve the bartering system, especially since it is neccisarry to barter for tools.

reputation is an influence in bartering? the problem is that there is almost no way to observe or quantify the effects that it has.

i know that bartering for reputation currency would not be completly realistic, but it would improve the gameplay. and it is about as realistic as trap fences and creating viable rafts out of logs and rope.

davidor

« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2017, 08:54:21 AM »
@jojojay
bartering is process is very realistic. I don't see removing such nice element from game is reasonable. The system can use a few improvements and most of it work fine.
Modern city person hate bartering because they are lazy and used to stupid ripoff prices marked by the seller where they can secure a great profit over basic costs that is impossible for any primary sector able to make by bartering.
Current system is just trade with basic price: if you balanced two side you got the deal
which is very generous and ideal to player(customer) and they don't ask anything above that for profit
also you can sell back anything at their full price
if we are going to change the trading mechanics, considering they are selling the excess things from villages and players are the one who asks, the bartering system should favor villagers and we should pay more to get the deal

@Rhaikh introduction of production and need is a nice suggestion and quite common in trading/merchant sim but I think this doesn't very suit the game
you won't see many professional traders spending their time and taking risks traveling in cold dangerous wild of iron age Finland, even they do they are no going to make great profits as most villages should be self sufficient in order to survive in this environment
two exception will be salt and iron, which is already portrayed by foreign traders

using reputation in trading is not actually implemented but the basics are already in game
there are some reputation levels about trading from 'cheater' to 'fine tradesman'
they don't do anything and 3 negative levels are unobtainable because you can never make a trade where village side have losses
they might have actual influence in future versions
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 09:00:15 AM by davidor »

powderhound522

« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2017, 06:37:46 PM »
I agree that not having actual currency is a good thing, however I also agree that trying to come up with a balanced trade is often an unnecessary chore.  It could use QoL improvements.  "What of what I have do you want" usually ends up in them asking for your masterwork weapon.  Maybe a feature to ask, "How many of this stack of widgets would you want," or "Among these four different items what would you want"

This would definitely be a nice improvement - you could even have it so they ask for more than they would accept if you were making offers.

Honestly, it's a bit silly to me that when I'm trading with someone I can just keep adding 2 cuts of meat at a time until they're satisfied - it would be more realistic if the person I'm bartering with would eventually either say "give me 20 more cuts and we're good", or get annoyed at my guesswork. At some point you could even have them refuse the trade and tell you to either return their goods or quit faffing about and give them a decent offer.

Paul

« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2017, 08:41:22 AM »
I try to always have a pack animal with me when trading. I put everything I don't want to trade on the animal. The only issue is it still asks for worn items, so I sometimes end up stripping naked to do a lot of trading just so I can make use of the "What would you like" option without it literally demanding the shirt off my back.

Brygun

« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2017, 07:44:53 AM »
There is sort of currency beyond meat cuts and that is arrows. They have a fair value for a light weight. They are better than meat cuts in that they dont spoil.

Im a little concerned of reputation currency. Reading the thread it isnt quite what I thought nor quite right to me.

One suggestion along the way that might be useful would be for beside 'what of my items do you want' is if we could ask 'how many of item <select item>' would you want. If its a select item it could be arrow, meat cuts, bowls, boards or an item from a mod. That I think would help.

Im also sometimes concerned about offering to high a value item, say a chain shirt, for far too less of value, like a bag of beans. It would be harder to code for the NPC to offer items to make up the difference. We can simply stop that trade and pick out more things if it is way off.

But...

new players dont know it is way off or to use arrows as currency. Or squirrel hides.