Topic: More usefulness for curing  (Read 981 times)


Buoidda

« on: October 24, 2020, 06:16:17 PM »
Ok ok I know I've been spamming suggestions, but I still have to speak on the other part of hide-ousness: curing  ;D

The first part was about tanning terminology:
https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5835.msg15624#msg15624

I don't cure skins in this game. Curing makes skins stuck in place and tanning is far quicker overall anyway. And you still have to clean the skin which isn't required for drying IRL. Fleshing is easier on dry skin anyway. (The membranes break off more easily on dry skin.) Doesn't really work when travelling, either. Really curing should be the thing to do when travelling and little time. The skins will continue drying hanging from the rucksack anyway, once they've initially become a bit dry.

I'd like to see curing as the default procedure for storage just like IRL. Tanning is a lot of work. Not every skinned hide will be tanned, only those that need to be. Also I don't think the fur trappers of old IRL tanned the hides themselves. The woodsman would definitely bring cured hides home first, maybe tan them then. Tanning is primarily concern of the craftsperson who gets their skins from hunters/herders, because only they know what qualities (how thoroughly tanned (hard), for instance) they want from the tanning for the work they are planning to use it for. Of course on commercial scale is different - I don't know how foreign traders would have wanted their furs.

Also, not every hide in use is tanned. Nowadays snowmobile-sled-hides aren't and old-days kota covers most likely neither. The skin is relatively cheap to replace in kota cover if its only dried (cured). A valuable-in-working-time tanned hide wouldn't have been wasted for something so trivial.

So, getting finally to my suggestion:

1) Curing should be immediately available for fresh skins
2) shorten curing times to max overnight or allow picking up of skins with curing still continuing

3) accept cured hides for kota covers and "sleeping in furs"
3) complicate tanning to make it more realistic and to encourage curing to be used more
4) make cured skins available in villages and for trade - preferably much more commonly than tanned hides. I understand this would affect game balance significantly and prices would need to be adjusted accordingly, with tanning lifting the cost especially of big hides - not so much of the valuable small furs.

EDIT: reordered priorities and added '1' from the terminology thread linked above
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 05:18:02 PM by Buoidda »
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JP_Finn

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« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2020, 06:39:11 PM »
I agree, yet again :)
Especially with the picking up the still curing skin. I made suggestion for salt curing food to be able to be picked up and let it continue curing in the rucksack/inventory.

I don’t know the exact mechanic behind the unpaid/taken* tokens, but similar tagging with “curing” could be a way to implement both food and skin curing. Only allow further use of the curing product once the curing timer has finished.

* I know how they work on user end

JP_Finn

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« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2020, 07:56:21 PM »
This is the Suggestion I had on to change salting mechanics.
Salting change Suggestion

Buoidda

« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2020, 08:20:19 PM »
I agree, yet again :)
....rucksack/inventory...curing timer...

What if the durability timer was used to visualize the would-be inventory curing (or JP's salting) process? And torches' burn-out timer!
« Last Edit: November 28, 2020, 08:21:51 PM by Buoidda »
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JP_Finn

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« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2020, 05:34:06 AM »
I’d be fine without the actual “time remaining” for picked up still curing proteins and skins. I could hopefully drop and look at them for time /days left.

Torches would be nice to have condition bar for them. And have the bar in yellow or red when lit. Put out the torch and show the remaining fuel/burn time bar in green like other items.

Sami

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« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2020, 10:07:38 PM »
So, getting finally to my suggestion:

1) Curing should be immediately available for fresh skins
2) shorten curing times to max overnight or allow picking up of skins with curing still continuing
3) accept cured hides for kota covers and "sleeping in furs"
3) complicate tanning to make it more realistic and to encourage curing to be used more
4) make cured skins available in villages and for trade - preferably much more commonly than tanned hides. I understand this would affect game balance significantly and prices would need to be adjusted accordingly, with tanning lifting the cost especially of big hides - not so much of the valuable small furs.
The hide processing is naturally simplified, and one of the many practical approaches chosen. We reckon the curing here to be quite precise cleansing and drying step but yes it could be more rough step too. It’s very true that in wilderness conditions you would want the hide with you with minimum effort, and current curing step seems more like a settled condition thing.
Being able to use cured hides for rougher purposes, such as kota covers, is very good idea. We’ll likely feature it.
Having villages to have more cured than tanned hides I’m not too certain of, but there could be cured hides also available for sure. Also, asking skilled NPCs to tan the cured hides for you is  something that’s been on to-do list for quite some time.

Finally, I’ve heard of theories that among stone-age hunters the hides weren’t necessarily practically tanned at all. Primitive clothes were sewn together from quite quickly cured, or cleansed to bare minimum hides. The fat and sweat from the wearer’s skin and the constant movement when the cloth was worn finally tanned the hide, over a longer period of time. Just an example that many processes can be done in less effort or as rougher version, but in the game world we have to draw a level of detail somewhere – still knowing it’s not the only way to go about it.
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JP_Finn

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« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2020, 01:30:15 AM »
That’s great, I’ve not heard of wear-tanning of leather fur before! (Something to search and study for me)
Which makes me automatically think about allowing cured skin to be used as fur-leather, but limit the product’s quality 1-2 levels.

Sami

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« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2020, 08:39:18 AM »
That’s great, I’ve not heard of wear-tanning of leather fur before! (Something to search and study for me)
Which makes me automatically think about allowing cured skin to be used as fur-leather, but limit the product’s quality 1-2 levels.

This was a stone-age method, and even if somebody had relied on it in the iron-age too we have to draw a line somewhere - like I said. It's not necessary, nor possible, nor good gaming experience (in my opinion) to have all the possibilities in there, but rather to feature the typical and characteristic ways that deliver the experience we like to deliver. I kind of always trust quality over quantity.
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Buoidda

« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2020, 09:17:26 AM »
I've heard of the method too. @JP_Finn be sure to link any finds in the offtopic board and tag me. There's actually a suitable topic already in which to reply: Fur, leather and tanning resources

It's not necessary, nor possible, nor good gaming experience (in my opinion) to have all the possibilities in there, but rather to feature the typical and characteristic ways that deliver the experience we like to deliver. I kind of always trust quality over quantity.

Those words resonate strongly in my modding endeavours as well as professional life. Well said.
Sewn with quill it is. X#X#X#  My craft mod 2.3.6 (released 12th of Jan 2021):  https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5865.0