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Using water from containers on ground - eating and drinking from table My char practically lives on a kota doorway tile next to a water tile, because it's so much less tedious to do all that drinking, tanning and whatnot when you don't have to think or look which container to pick up and choose. I imagine many do the same.

If the game would simply use water from containers on ground automatically (for example from largest first) or at least include the water containers on the ground on the inventory menu. This would be a *huge* interface improvement. Why are the tubs so small anyways?

Relating to this - it would be cool for table top contents to appear on the list menu when 'e'ating or 'q'uaffing. That way having a table in one's cottage would really be a lot of help as in real world as well.

I also noted the older suggestion about drinking from containers on draught animals. https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5552.0

October 15, 2020, 05:41:48 PM
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Re: Quality of Life improvement: drink from container on animal I agree. Make that from ground or table as well.
October 15, 2020, 05:45:17 PM
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Re: Different types of wood
I thought well, I can't really make a strong bow out of pine.
(pushes glasses with index finger) But the best bow in the game is made from pine. lol ;D

Otherwise, I totally agree.

October 15, 2020, 06:01:59 PM
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Small predators like ermine, pine-marten and polecat much more common I've trapped hundreds of birds, gluttons, hares, bears, seals, wolves and foxes during my experience with Urw. But the times I caught trapped one of the three in the subject: only very, very rarely.

I really feel these small predators should be much more commonly encountered and more easily trapped. In fact, more than any of the above.

I'd like to see trapping small predators a lot easier and harder to trap the valuable big predators. For realism and game balance. I'd reduce the value of big herbivore hides too.

Also I think it would be an idea worth considering if birds would be only possible to be trapped with loop snares. That way one could focus more on birds and hares or small predators.

Almost since the beginning of URW I've had one dream: to make myself a coat of self-caught pine-marten or ermine.  8) My current char has perfect eyesight and otherwise well rounded too. I'm trying to yet again become a small predator hunter but it really seems to be next to impossible.  :'(

October 19, 2020, 08:42:32 PM
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Re: Small predators like ermine, pine-marten and polecat much more common I tried to find some modern trapper statistics for reference but failed. Nevertheless, I imagine the small predator furs obtained by a skilled and dedicated trapper during trapping season to count at least in tens even for an iron age one.

I agree they shouldn't be encountered very often. Therefore I like Erkka's idea.

As a sidenote, I found this interesting 100-year-old book about trapping:
SCIENCE OF TRAPPING
DESCRIBES THE FUR BEARING ANIMALS,
THEIR NATURE, HABITS AND DISTRIBUTION,
WITH PRACTICAL METHODS
FOR THEIR CAPTURE.
By E. KREPS.
http://www.raems.com/articles/kreps/trap/trap.htm#C05

October 23, 2020, 09:28:52 AM
1
tanning terminology + rinsed should not spoil I have had several thoughts about the tanning of skins in this game for a long time. Here's my suggestions on how to make the tanning feel more right - at least in my experience.

I updated this post after I wrote a suggestion about curing:
https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5837.msg15649#msg15649

1) Rename the 'rinsed' * skin to 'hard' * skin and remove it's ability to spoil. Rotting at this already-tanned stage doesn't make any sense to me. Also the 'hard' adjective describes better what is expected to do next. Also IRL this is how we refer to skins at this stage.

2) Remove the need for water for cleaning skins. When I do that IRL, don't require water.

3) Curing should be immediately available for fresh skins, not after laborious cleaning (fleshing), which is easier on dry skin. (The membranes break off more easily on dry skin.) Moved to the curing thread.

4) Rename all fur-bearing fresh skins to 'pelt' (ie: "cleaned ermine pelt") with the exception of:

5) Rename all big fur-bearing skins to 'hide' (of the size available to use in kota construction, for example, so 8lbs in my understanding)

6) Dehairing seems to have an odd step after it. A dehaired skin is not dry, but very wet. It doesn't need to be soaked, quite the opposite. The membranes are scraped off or at least broken when they are dry. A thorough wash and salt water are beneficial after dehairing, to slow the rotting which caused the dehairing in the first place. I'd alter the soaking step to a wash and dry. (I'm aware of many methods of tanning, but in this rubbing method the game uses this would be appropriate.)

7) Make dehairing process rename previous 'pelts' and 'hides' to 'skins':

Like so:
Spoiler: examples • show

fresh snake skin
(wait too long and it becomes spoiled snake skin)
(optional step: cured snake skin)  no spoilage
clean fleshed snake skin
tanning snake skin
hard snake skin                    no spoilage
snake leather                      no spoilage

fresh hare pelt
(wait too long and it becomes spoiled hare pelt)
(optional step: cured hare pelt)   no spoilage
clean fleshed hare pelt
tanning hare pelt
hard hare pelt                     no spoilage
hare fur                           no spoilage
 
fresh hare pelt
(wait too long and it becomes spoiled hare pelt)
(optional step: cured hare pelt)   no spoilage
dehaired hare skin
cured hare skin                    no spoilage
clean fleshed hare skin
tanning hare skin
hard hare skin                     no spoilage
hare leather                       no spoilage

fresh elk hide
(wait too long and it becomes spoiled elk hide)
(optional step: cured elk hide)    no spoilage
clean fleshed elk hide
tanning elk hide
hard elk hide                      no spoilage
elk fur                            no spoilage

fresh elk hide
(wait too long and it becomes spoiled elk hide)
(optional step: cured elk hide)    no spoilage
dehaired elk skin
cured elk skin                     no spoilage
clean fleshed elk skin
tanning elk skin
hard elk skin                      no spoilage
elk leather                        no spoilage

8 ) No cutting weapon needed in dehairing.
9) Tanning by smoking, in the same style as smoking meat.

My reasoning apart from what already been said:
a) one could instantly recognize which animal skins become leather and which fur
b) currently one cannot distinguish a dehaired "tanning elk skin" and a fur bearing "tanning elk skin" before the whole tanning process is finished
c) curing is not very useful nor realistic atm. Suggestions would help that. Moved to the curing thread.

d) using 'hide' only for bigger skins is more proper English in my understanding. English is not my mothertongue, but I understand all these terms are a bit vague and interchangeable at least to some degree. I would love the get some native English feedback on this. Anyway, IMHO it would be good for the game interface to establish a terminology anyway to easily distinguish between fur-bearing and non-fur-bearing skins and their states of progress.

EDIT: after reading this: https://www.newlifeonahomestead.com/tan-hides-using-traditional-cheap-easy-methods-part-2/ I find using the 'fleshing' term is indeed more appropriate

October 23, 2020, 12:03:21 PM
3
More usefulness for curing Ok ok I know I've been spamming suggestions, but I still have to speak on the other part of hide-ousness: curing  ;D

The first part was about tanning terminology:
https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5835.msg15624#msg15624

I don't cure skins in this game. Curing makes skins stuck in place and tanning is far quicker overall anyway. And you still have to clean the skin which isn't required for drying IRL. Fleshing is easier on dry skin anyway. (The membranes break off more easily on dry skin.) Doesn't really work when travelling, either. Really curing should be the thing to do when travelling and little time. The skins will continue drying hanging from the rucksack anyway, once they've initially become a bit dry.

I'd like to see curing as the default procedure for storage just like IRL. Tanning is a lot of work. Not every skinned hide will be tanned, only those that need to be. Also I don't think the fur trappers of old IRL tanned the hides themselves. The woodsman would definitely bring cured hides home first, maybe tan them then. Tanning is primarily concern of the craftsperson who gets their skins from hunters/herders, because only they know what qualities (how thoroughly tanned (hard), for instance) they want from the tanning for the work they are planning to use it for. Of course on commercial scale is different - I don't know how foreign traders would have wanted their furs.

Also, not every hide in use is tanned. Nowadays snowmobile-sled-hides aren't and old-days kota covers most likely neither. The skin is relatively cheap to replace in kota cover if its only dried (cured). A valuable-in-working-time tanned hide wouldn't have been wasted for something so trivial.

So, getting finally to my suggestion:

1) Curing should be immediately available for fresh skins
2) shorten curing times to max overnight or allow picking up of skins with curing still continuing

3) accept cured hides for kota covers and "sleeping in furs"
3) complicate tanning to make it more realistic and to encourage curing to be used more
4) make cured skins available in villages and for trade - preferably much more commonly than tanned hides. I understand this would affect game balance significantly and prices would need to be adjusted accordingly, with tanning lifting the cost especially of big hides - not so much of the valuable small furs.

EDIT: reordered priorities and added '1' from the terminology thread linked above

October 24, 2020, 06:16:17 PM
5
Re: tanning terminology + rinsed should not spoil I made some updates on the thread starter... smoking clean skins would be cool!

Now I'm speculating ways to make the tanning more complicated like I suggested in the curing topic.

One solution would be to force the character reiterate between cleaning (näskäys, fleshing, hmm fleshed ermine pelt  ???) and tanning steps on random occasion, more likely on less skilled tanners. Practically needing a successfull skill check to continue to the next phase. Player would get messages like "You notice you need to scrape the flesh side of the skin some more before you can continue tanning."  OR "You feel the skin needs some more rubbing with tanning material."

IMHO, this would bring great crafting feel to the pretty straightforward hideworking we do now, things not always going cleanly with only the fat (braaaaiiinss) of the animal. Of course this would also require bark to be harvestable (albeit more slowly, like IRL) all year.

Negligible suggestion: I'd add the ability to dehair ready-made fur too, because it is possible, just needs longer soaking. This especially if generated kota covers remain as tanned furs.

@JP_Finn Often, I wouldn't believe dictionaries, since those are written by dictionary-people and not professionals of very spesific and maybe marginal fields.  ::) Here is something I found while digging up terms:

https://www.leather-dictionary.com/index.php/Hide_-_Skin
https://www.leather-dictionary.com/index.php/The_Leather_Dictionary

October 24, 2020, 07:36:42 PM
2
Re: Punitive island winter challenge Like this. Wow I managed to get only light injuries (-21%, cropped off because pic size constraint). I might actually survive this one.
October 25, 2020, 08:06:48 AM
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Re: Punitive island winter challenge It sure can be.

A few pointers to any newcomers who wish to try:
- When still naked - obsess over fire.
   - Gather firewood rather than cut it - it is far quicker. Always have enough ready for at least one night, preferably several.
   - Branches and other small wood burn too quickly. Light branch fires to cut slender trunks. Light slender trunks to cut groups of young trees.
   - Always be on a lookout for groups of young trees. Light a slender trunk fire near them to be able to cut three or at least two young trees with one fire.
   - Do not waste big trunks for fires that burn longer than you need them to. The winter will be much colder later. You also need them for traps when you get rope.
   - Learn to use torches.
- Do not waste time on wooden stakes/fences and javelins. Throw rocks unless your club skill is much worse than spear.
- Fish with rocks. With stone tools you get crude javelins which are -10 skill in fights, I don't know but possibly in fishing too.
- From the start, you are in a real hurry to have plenty of food, firewood and fur clothes before the mid winter strikes.
- EDIT: Try to a make wooden shovel and dig the pits you need before the ground is too frozen.
- Reindeer, elk and bear have the warmest fur. Good for hoods, footwear and mittens, areas on which you can't have many layers.
- Mind the spirits. You can sacrifice mushrooms and grasses. Use lingonberries for bait. Low energy meat is also better as bait than one sorry meal.
- Stay the F*** out of the ice! If you must brave to a carcass, drop everything but a wielded knife and crawl. You can test the ice by pushing stuff on it.
- Swimming guide: https://www.unrealworld.fi/wiki/index.php?title=Swimming_(Skill)

The Island will await patiently.



October 27, 2020, 10:32:19 PM
2
anything