Topic: Choose the starting Culture based on skills  (Read 7868 times)


koteko

« on: August 28, 2017, 04:00:35 PM »
Here is a short commentary/guide to the starting cultures, based on the simple analysis of the starting skill bonuses/maluses. This should help any beginner looking to make things smoother for themselves.. or harder, if masochistic :)

  • Reemi, Sarto, Kaumo and Kiesse are quite versatile tribes, with bonuses far outweighing the maluses. Good choice for beginners, especially if the right tribe is chosen for a specific play style (eg, choose Sarto for agriculture-related characters, Kaumo for warriors and active hunters, Reemi for trappers and Kiesse for the prototypical woodsman.)
  • Owls have many maluses (which reduces their versatility in using multiple weapons and wood/construction stuff, but also fishing), but are probably the best active hunters (Kaumo is easier to play overall but takes more grinding to raise some important skills). This is your bow-sniper character, able to track down quickly the prey, kill it and produce high-quality hides, as well as identify useful herbs.
  • Seal tribes are not as bad as you would think from their -4. They are the best spear-users, club-users, fishers and "shamans". Their stealth bonus is also good. They make fun (and reality-appropriate) seal-hunters if you don't go the easy way (eg, traps): sneak up, throw your javelin/spear and club to death. I enjoyed playing as one.
  • Driik seem very "poor", but they have the best sword, shield and crossbow bonuses. Most other tribes have maluses there, or at best a zero. They might make for interesting atypical characters.
  • Islanders are the best weather predictors.. which is sadly useless (maybe for some quests? not sure). They can only swim, fish and carve wooden objects better than default, and have plenty of important maluses. More "carpentry" options (eg, fishbone carvery?) might make them more appealing in the future.
  • Kuikka are essentially lesser Owl that can fish very well (like Islanders and Seal-tribe), and carve wooden objects decently. Never got interested in playing as one.
  • Koivulanen.. these are weird. They have good Agriculture, like the Sarto, and also small tracking&trapping bonuses. They have a bonus to the least used weapon, the flail. That's it - however, they also lack significant maluses. Herblore & Physician only. So they make for the real average man, which can be interesting for the expert player.



Source of the above: the ini_skills.txt shipped with the game. I uploaded it on the wiki for easy consultation.

I found the actual file a bit hard to read - a table works much better. Also, I prefer a bonus/malus view (eg, difference compared to the default) instead of the absolute numbers.

It would be great to also have a table for attribute bonuses.. what we have was found empirically a long time ago and I'm not sure how accurate it is.

I find, however, that when planning a character I care more about the skills than the attributes, since I'm a heavy roller to get high values (or I even correct the attributes manually, if I can't be bothered to roll). So it doesn't affect me overmuch.

(URW version 3.4)
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 06:16:29 PM by koteko »

Felius

« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2017, 10:07:36 PM »
Quote
Owls have many maluses (which reduces their versatility in using multiple weapons and wood/construction stuff, but also fishing), but are probably the best active hunters (Kaumo is easier to play overall but takes more grinding to raise some important skills). This is your bow-sniper character, able to track down quickly the prey, kill it and produce high-quality hides, as well as identify useful herbs.
Just don't expect to be able to carry all the meat back home, unless you take a bull on a leash on your hunts. Or a whole lot of dogs.

Their very low weight means their maximum carrying capacity is also quite low, as is the "free" equipment weight allowance too. Specially the colder periods, where you need quite a few pounds of clothing to keep from freezing, hunting can be an exercise in waste.

koteko

« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2017, 11:06:22 PM »
Just don't expect to be able to carry all the meat back home, unless you take a bull on a leash on your hunts. Or a whole lot of dogs.

Their very low weight means their maximum carrying capacity is also quite low, as is the "free" equipment weight allowance too. Specially the colder periods, where you need quite a few pounds of clothing to keep from freezing, hunting can be an exercise in waste.

Sure, but every Owl knows to bring a reindeer or two with him when out hunting, and make temporary shelters where to leave it :)

I actually either directly leave the meat to dry where the elk died (so many bogs in the north, no lack of water to make a temporary shelter to process the skin and dry the meat), or even just push it on a tree for later collection.

spamgoose

« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2017, 02:07:14 AM »

Sure, but every Owl knows to bring a reindeer or two with him when out hunting, and make temporary shelters where to leave it :)

I actually either directly leave the meat to dry where the elk died (so many bogs in the north, no lack of water to make a temporary shelter to process the skin and dry the meat), or even just push it on a tree for later collection.

That, at least for me, is one of the big challenges in playing a pure hunter -- thinking like a nomad. There's absolutely no reason to not go far afield with a reindeer carrying cords and supplies, set up a shelter, a kota frame for drying, and process meat on the spot. Except for remembering to go back and get the dried meat. For some reason, I always get caught in the trap of "gotta get home... gotta get this home... then everything will be good". Sometimes I think the game needs a good built-in scheduling app to remind when things are done drying, when nets should be grabbed, etc. But yes, thinking like a nomad is the challenge and the true pleasure in that kind of character.

Tedosiamay

« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2017, 11:39:00 AM »
It would be most true that it was.

Dungeon Smash

« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2018, 08:16:34 PM »

Sure, but every Owl knows to bring a reindeer or two with him when out hunting, and make temporary shelters where to leave it :)

I actually either directly leave the meat to dry where the elk died (so many bogs in the north, no lack of water to make a temporary shelter to process the skin and dry the meat), or even just push it on a tree for later collection.

That, at least for me, is one of the big challenges in playing a pure hunter -- thinking like a nomad. There's absolutely no reason to not go far afield with a reindeer carrying cords and supplies, set up a shelter, a kota frame for drying, and process meat on the spot. Except for remembering to go back and get the dried meat. For some reason, I always get caught in the trap of "gotta get home... gotta get this home... then everything will be good". Sometimes I think the game needs a good built-in scheduling app to remind when things are done drying, when nets should be grabbed, etc. But yes, thinking like a nomad is the challenge and the true pleasure in that kind of character.
this is very true and yes, i struggle with this as well.

i think part of the reason may be that the introductory game course is designed for a sedentary, "safe" lifestyle of a farmer/fisher/trapper/homesteader.  many of the challenges include building homes, planting crops, etc.  not ideal or even logical for a nomad.  the "advanced adventures" game course, however, involves a lot of travel and may actually be easier for a nomad.  so maybe homesteader vs nomad could be partially understood as "beginner vs advanced".  personally, i've never gotten a nomad character off the ground but have always been curious.  i suspect Seal tribe may be best for a pure hunter, and Kuikka for a fisher nomad.  Owl or Kaumo would also be good.

I must say, I have played as Islander several times and I think they are actually much better than people give them credit for, SO LONG AS you live in their native environment, the southwestern archipelago.  The archipelago is mostly quite safe and devoid of dangerous animals and enemies, except for some of the larger islands (which are easily avoided).  This means that weak combat skills are mostly unimportant.    Excellent fishing skills provide all the seafood anyone could ever need, negating the need for trapping or hunting.  And the weather in the islands is relatively balmy, even in winter, providing a carefree and easygoing lifestyle.  really, the only challenge is finding a way to pass the time - which is why I prefer to play Islander characters with mods like Buoidda's installed.  Their boost to carpentry makes them very viable as blacksmiths, weavers, etc.  I've had two very successful Islander characters who lived the life of a peaceful craftsman, covering their islands with gardens and dwelling in a compound at the center where they have full-fledged production facilities for ironmongering, clothesmaking, brewing, cheesemaking, etc.  Then, when the time is right, they set off in a boat across the sea - to trade their wares at the island towns, or head to the Driik coast and up the rivers to the rich towns where all manner of goods may be found.

On the other hand, I have no idea why anyone would want to play as Koivula.  Seems like a "challenge culture".  Driik are also interesting but I've never had much desire to play one.  Seems like you would have to actively hunt with the crossbow, traveling from town to town looking for a chance to use your sword.  Could be fun but I've never had the heart to try.

Shadowdweller

« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2018, 08:54:25 AM »
Islanders definitely have their benefits.  Their fishing skill isn't generally quite as good as seal tribe, but it's enough to live off of.  Their carpentry skill is frequently enough to craft fine arrows (with maybe a point's worth of investment) once you get a basic toolset.  Their combat skills are mediocre to weak, but it's possible to get a perfectly serviceable bow skill on them.  It can also otherwise be difficult / time-consuming to get a character to start in the Archipelago due to the limited land mass.  (Islanders don't have this problem since their home culture is there).

koteko

« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2018, 09:50:00 AM »
Quote
On the other hand, I have no idea why anyone would want to play as Koivula.

I can give a very belated explanation to this, since I'm playing one now and have played another before, with much enjoyment.

After you learn most of what you need to know about URW, the very strong cultures start to lose their appeal. You start in winter and get all setup before the coldest part arrives, and you do not look forward to Spring.

I can't even look at Kaumos. Last Owl I rolled had speed, agility, dexterity and eyesight maxed out (just a few roll tries) - a bloody sniper.  Sarto are huge and can be rolled very well. Reemis too, and end up with the highest trapping score (so you drown in animal furs and meat even faster).

Of course I could gimp a roll, or keep important skills low. But as long as I can max out a character, I will, I can't do otherwise.

So my solution has been to play subpar cultures. Rolling many many times to get something decent. Feeling the difficulty of playing with overall lower skills and stats.

In addition, the Koivula have generally few and relatively poor villages, which adds some difficulty (I try to play close to "home" culture).

Iago.Hach

« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2018, 04:56:42 PM »
Here is a short commentary/guide to the starting cultures, based on the simple analysis of the starting skill bonuses/maluses. This should help any beginner looking to make things smoother for themselves.. or harder, if masochistic :)

  • Reemi, Sarto, Kaumo and Kiesse are quite versatile tribes, with bonuses far outweighing the maluses. Good choice for beginners, especially if the right tribe is chosen for a specific play style (eg, choose Sarto for agriculture-related characters, Kaumo for warriors and active hunters, Reemi for trappers and Kiesse for the prototypical woodsman.)
  • Owls have many maluses (which reduces their versatility in using multiple weapons and wood/construction stuff, but also fishing), but are probably the best active hunters (Kaumo is easier to play overall but takes more grinding to raise some important skills). This is your bow-sniper character, able to track down quickly the prey, kill it and produce high-quality hides, as well as identify useful herbs.
  • Seal tribes are not as bad as you would think from their -4. They are the best spear-users, club-users, fishers and "shamans". Their stealth bonus is also good. They make fun (and reality-appropriate) seal-hunters if you don't go the easy way (eg, traps): sneak up, throw your javelin/spear and club to death. I enjoyed playing as one.
  • Driik seem very "poor", but they have the best sword, shield and crossbow bonuses. Most other tribes have maluses there, or at best a zero. They might make for interesting atypical characters.
  • Islanders are the best weather predictors.. which is sadly useless (maybe for some quests? not sure). They can only swim, fish and carve wooden objects better than default, and have plenty of important maluses. More "carpentry" options (eg, fishbone carvery?) might make them more appealing in the future.
  • Kuikka are essentially lesser Owl that can fish very well (like Islanders and Seal-tribe), and carve wooden objects decently. Never got interested in playing as one.
  • Koivulanen.. these are weird. They have good Agriculture, like the Sarto, and also small tracking&trapping bonuses. They have a bonus to the least used weapon, the flail. That's it - however, they also lack significant maluses. Herblore & Physician only. So they make for the real average man, which can be interesting for the expert player.



Source of the above: the ini_skills.txt shipped with the game. I uploaded it on the wiki for easy consultation.

I found the actual file a bit hard to read - a table works much better. Also, I prefer a bonus/malus view (eg, difference compared to the default) instead of the absolute numbers.

It would be great to also have a table for attribute bonuses.. what we have was found empirically a long time ago and I'm not sure how accurate it is.

I find, however, that when planning a character I care more about the skills than the attributes, since I'm a heavy roller to get high values (or I even correct the attributes manually, if I can't be bothered to roll). So it doesn't affect me overmuch.

(URW version 3.4)

Hi, I really liked your update in the wiki, it's very helpful :)

I don't know why you don't like Kuikka that much :/ they are my favorites :)

My top characters that I play the most are Kuikka and Reemi
They are versatile, Kuikka is like a more balanced Owl, they have more Trapping, Fishing and Carpentry, even if I don't use lot's of fishing it's very useful. In the wiki you see a lot of -1s when  Owl has -2s that's another advantage...

But most of the time Owl and Kaumo are the best, in most important skills, that seems like it's overpower, so I don't play Kaumo and Owl that much. I have more fun playing Kuikka, Seal, Reemi and Kiesse.

I think I need to try more of the other cultures :)
It has been a long time since I play vanilla, mostly because I love how URW let you mod so freely the game.

koteko

« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2018, 05:11:09 PM »
Quote
I don't know why you don't like Kuikka that much :/ they are my favorites :)

Indeed I changed my opinion on them :) I now vastly prefer them to Owls. I mostly play trapper/settler/farmer, but when I play nomad now is either Seal (javelin/spear/club, as traditional as I can) or Kuikka (bow/arrow plus either knife or spear for winter hunting).

tedomedo

« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2018, 09:24:55 AM »
I created Skills version 2 in exel with formula sumproduct. I don't know how can i convert excel sheet with formulas to hrml. Look at this picture, i typed "x" in row 17 to select skills i want and it shows which attributes are related to these skills and which culture has the best these skills if these skills related attributes are maximized.

I gave link to xlsx file on Cultures site on unreal world wiki. http://unrealworld.wikia.com/wiki/Cultures#Excel_file_to_calculate_which_culture_is_the_best_for_your_favorite_skills
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 10:58:40 PM by tedomedo »

tedomedo

« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2018, 10:36:10 PM »
I updated this excel file yesterday, i added table which shows another way to compare cultures. I also added sheets for cultures. I can't upload .xlsx here, it's too big, so this is direct link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz0zt2f6go7y4po/Skills.xlsx?dl=1
Sami, if you don't like this post which might looks like ad, delete it and send me a message.