Topic: Fur protection/warmth values  (Read 5074 times)


koteko

« on: August 22, 2017, 01:12:17 PM »
Does anyone have a table for 3.4? I couldn't find the protection and warmth values for animal furs, neither on the wikis, nor the old forums, nor reddit. OBJ inspection didn't help because there needs to be an existing clothing made of a specific animal to see the values.

If there is none available I will slowly make it but it's going to take ages to find all animals and make a cap out of their furs :P

garettzriwin

« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2017, 05:37:09 PM »
I don't think there is any, so far I can only tell you that all you need for torso and leg armor are 2 bear furs made into all possible clothing to get maximum protection, rest probably easy to fill with bear leather and some iron cowls/helmets.

koteko

« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2017, 06:00:37 PM »
I don't think there is any, so far I can only tell you that all you need for torso and leg armor are 2 bear furs made into all possible clothing to get maximum protection, rest probably easy to fill with bear leather and some iron cowls/helmets.

Thanks, I actually know what the best things are. I have all generic fur/leather/iron/mail/lamellar/linen/nettle/wool values, for they are available in any OBJ file. Also, in my games I always wear bear and elk (depending if I have to maximise warmth or protection) so I have those values too (and I know that stag/elk/reindeer are exactly equal). So I'm "settled" in my game optimisation. What I never did was making clothes out of other hides, and this means I don't have the values in the OBJ file.

I wanted to propose a re-calibration of some furs based on this:



Which would make wolf as warm as bear or even as deer (the maximum available), and arctic fox even warmer. This could help re-valuating hides that are more difficult to get (arctic fox is rare, and wolves are, IMHO, more dangerous of bears because of pack behaviour. I can kill bears with any character now but wolves are still scary).

I will slowly do this work and update the wiki :D

caethan

« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2017, 09:29:25 PM »
Neat!  Where's the image/caption from? 

You can use some modding to whip up furs from nothing if you're not inclined to go hunting until you find each one of them.

koteko

« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2017, 10:21:04 PM »
Neat!  Where's the image/caption from? 

You can use some modding to whip up furs from nothing if you're not inclined to go hunting until you find each one of them.

It's taken from a 70s article (ref in the picture caption) but I actually took it from the web somewhere - can't remember :P

You are quite correct about mods.. silly me! :D

caethan

« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2017, 06:32:04 AM »
Found the original reference!  It's actually from 1950 - the 1970s article just cited it and redrew the graph. Let me know if you can't get it, I can upload the PDF somewhere.  Here's just the original graph:



Some interesting takeaways from the whole article: 

* The measurements for seals included the blubber; seal furs without the blubber should be less warm.
* Measurements were all on winter furs; summer/spring furs aren't as thick and should be less warm.
* There's a line of cotton as reference; a given thickness of cotton fluff is actually quite warm.  Probably we could find references to compare nettle, wool, and linen cloth.
* The units are different - cm in the original, inches in the one you found, and the units of insulation are different.  The one used in your graph is particularly useful - the "Clo".  That's the amount of clothing over the body needed to be comfortable at 21C/70F.  You can convert back and forth --- 2.387 Clo is one of the units in the original graph (note the tiny hard-to-see decimal points on the axis).  5 Clo is a full polar outfit.

koteko

« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2017, 09:16:09 AM »
Good spot! Amazing that people are just bouncing around the same figure without re-doing the experiment :P would be nice to check reproducibility..

koteko

« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2017, 10:26:31 PM »
I'm too lazy to do it through mod.. so I'm accumulating data slowly via hunting :P

These are the collected Warmth values (only furs of course, no leather):

Stag/Reindeer/Elk: 5
Bear/Sheep/Ram: 4
Wolf/Arctic Fox/Badger/Grey Seal/Glutton: 3

According to the figure above, Arctic fox should be a 5 (I wouldn't devalute the "deers", since real-world northern tribes, inuit included, use those in winter - so not sure what's going on with the plot), wolf should join bear/sheep (I don't know if finland sheeps are "dall sheeps", let's assume not).

The normal fox is fine as a 3 (I'm assuming is the same), but the arctic definitely not - especially considered how valuable it is, and how small it is. You'd need a load of foxes for that overcoat! :D I'd only make a-fox mittens and footwear probably, with a hood of wolf ;)

makute

« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2017, 09:37:07 PM »
I've been keeping this table for ages waiting for this very moment!



Jokes aside, this is from the ancient wiki and probably outdated, but you can get an idea easily.

koteko

« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2017, 10:24:37 PM »
I knew it well, but as you said, it's old and quite inaccurate :) You can already see elk/stag values to be wrong, for example.

In general it's much better to have values pulled out from the OBJ file instead of using the armour view, since if I remember correctly are not perfectly mapped to numbers (ie, two numbers may have the same colour).

makute

« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2017, 09:59:51 AM »
Are armor and clothes values on the wiki? I can only find those of weapons.

koteko

« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2017, 11:31:10 AM »
Are armor and clothes values on the wiki? I can only find those of weapons.

Yes: https://www.unrealworld.fi/wiki/index.php?title=Clothing

Not sure about how accurate they are. I have my own scripts to pull out information from the OBJ file.

makute

« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2017, 09:26:24 PM »
Doh! I had them in front of me :P

Thanks!

 

anything