Topic: [OUTDATED] [3.72] Community Mod BAC  (Read 27066 times)


Tinker

« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2022, 11:54:49 AM »
Yes. It should also work with full version due soon.

Vitowns

« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2022, 03:10:03 PM »
Yes. It should also work with full version due soon.

Oooh thanks a lot i think ill wait for full version :D cheers

Mr.Ocd

« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2022, 06:11:58 AM »
I can't seem to make half logs outta log. Standing over the log and selecting half log should do it but it acts like it doesn't detect the log underneath my feet. I can't pick the log up and put in my inventory to make the half log.

Tinker

« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2022, 09:54:23 AM »
First thing to check is that you have a log, it does not work with a trunk.

I usually stand next to the log, facing it but I just checked that standing on the log also works, not sure why you cannot do it, it should work with any game version as it just needs a log on the ground and an axe, preferably a splitting axe.

« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2022, 11:18:56 AM »
Does this require the beta version to work?

Mr.Ocd

« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2022, 03:36:42 PM »
First thing to check is that you have a log, it does not work with a trunk.

I usually stand next to the log, facing it but I just checked that standing on the log also works, not sure why you cannot do it, it should work with any game version as it just needs a log on the ground and an axe, preferably a splitting axe.

I feel stupid, lol. I've been trying to do this with a trunk instead of a log. I got the two confused. Thanks for clarifying this.

Tinker

« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2022, 03:59:27 PM »
We have all done something like this at least once so do not feel bad.

@ MilitanttiTalitintti Rudy started the conversion with the beta version and as far as I know it has only been tested on the beta version, but most things should work OK with any 3.7 version, there are problems with 3.6x versions, mainly with retting plants and yarn making.


rudy

« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2022, 05:04:49 AM »
I'm in the midst of a significant update, which I will test with the 3.72 version, but Tinker is right: anything that worked for 3.72b should still work for 3.72.

rudy

« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2022, 06:27:22 PM »
VERSION 2.3 UPDATE RELEASE

Download in first post. Please let me know of any issues you have!

I don't anticipate another update until mid January, but I will certainly work on resolving any bugs or issues that pop up post-haste.


R2.3

DELETE the diy_BAC_knitting file if updating from version R2.2 or earlier.  (If installing fresh, disregard this instruction)


WOOL CHANGES
HUGE overhaul to wool clothing, after a lot of reading. Knitting is not a thing any more, because it did not exist at the time and location the game simulates.

Recipes were redone (in a more complicated fashion) in order to get around the hard-coded limitation on clothing quality. Now, instead of all woollen clothing being decent quality, it can be anywhere from crude to masterwork, based on your TEXTILECRAFT skill.

Large pieces of wool clothing are made primarily with wool cloth (which was a thing in a previous version of BAC), which I have now restored.

Smaller items, specifically gloves, socks and caps, were made with a process called Naalbinding (google it) which is a precursor to Knitting. The latter is somewhat slower, but does not require a loom, and is "lossless" in terms of material used.

All wool processing and clothing moved back to a single menu, though tools used in common with other textiles (e.g. loom) are still under the Textilecraft menu.

Prices were rebalanced so that each step in the wool clothing process adds value to the finished product. Wool yarn is worth 1 unit (arrow/squirrel fur) per pound. Wool cloth is worth 2 per pound. Wool clothing is worth 2.5-3 per pound (varies per clothing item; vanilla item values were not changed, and the values were built around this). This is in contrast to previous wool clothing crafted by BAC which had MUCH lower prices than the corresponding vanilla items. IT's now possible to make your living as a maker of wool clothing, if you wish.

Unraveling woollen clothing to obtain yarn is now slightly lossy (0.6 pounds of clothing gives you 0.5 pounds of yarn).

You can now "trade" for wool yarn in a village using a recipe that simulates that trade. The required input is one arrow (as the most common trade-item used by players), but this can be fairly
altered in the code for any item of equivalent value (such as a squirrel fur).

Weaving wool cloth increased from 90 minutes to 2h for one pound of cloth. This may still be too little.

Removed 'noquality' from wool yarn creation, so that you can have higher quality wool yarn. Changed length to 100 feet per 0.5 pounds instead of 15 feet (which is silly). 100 feet per 0.5 pounds is still REALLY thick, but it roughly lines up with the thickness of the vanilla linen and nettle yarn (and is in fact slightly thicker than either).

Removed noquality on spindle, but reduced the skill bonus from 30 to 10. Higher quality spindles now possible.

Removed noquality from knitting needles so that you could have good quality ones.

Wool cloth garments need {Fine cordage} now as opposed to specifically yarn to sew the parts together. (Yarn still works, this just makes it broader, AND prevents the annoying bug whereby the entire stack of yarn is used up)

Knitting needles no longer an item; instead, you can craft more generic "textile needles" out of wood or bone. (Using bone offers a 10% skill bonus to the crafting). These are intended to be a set of needles that can be used for any of the textile processes.

Woollen veil and woollen cowl presented an issue: the first weighed 0.3 pounds, the latter 1 pound, but both covered the same area (skull and neck) and provided the same protection. Veil is unbalanced in weight in comparison to other wool clothing. It should probably provide less warmth, because it is a lighter material, but that is not an option in modding. Both items were removed, and replaced with a "woollen heavy veil" that you can craft, which weighs 0.6 pounds, as a compromise item. Both vanilla items are still obtainable through trading with villages.

Woollen longsocks item added, covering feet and calves, because of the large number of woollen garments that cut off above the calves.

Woollen footrags removed as a craftable item. They are mechanically identical to woollen socks, and removed for redundancy since more menu space was desired. Woollen socks and woollen longsocks may be layered if double foot protection is desired.

Woollen hood added as a craftable item, due to lack of face coverings. Covers the same area as the fur hood (skull, face, neck).

"Woollen dress (w sleeves)" added as a craftable item. It is mechanically the same as the woollen undergarment in terms of price, weigh, and area covered. Allows layering, and RP of those who wish to wear a dress without having cold arms.



MENU CHANGES
* Renamed "Wool Processing and Garments" menu now uses the O key. Armors of Iron and Wood changed from O to I key.

* Bark clothing (previously with wool clothing) moved to Earthen/Barkware menu. That menu is now 100% full, which is not ideal for future expansion, but perfectly fine for now.



IRONWORKING CHANGES

* Removed -30% penalty from smelting iron bloom (I don't understand why it was there)

* Halved input and output and time of smelt ore into iron recipe. 4h instead of 8h, one pound instead of 2. Just to break it up.

* Reworking iron and steel recipes, in order to allow you to keep working at a piece of metal to perfect it further (can take MANY MANY tries)

* Removed two "fix errors" cheat recipes under ironworking. Haven't seen any need to use those yet. They are still in the file, just commented out.


COOKING CHANGES
* Nettle Cheese now has a price of 0.25 squirrel hides (or 0.25 arrows), as opposed to having no value.

* Dried berries and mushrooms now has a price of 0.1 squirrel hides (or 0.1 arrows), as opposed to having no value. Unfortunately this will work on poisoned mushrooms, but the value is low enough that it shouldn't be a temptation to cheese.

* Recipe to make berry turnovers from dried berries added


OTHER CHANGES

* FIX: Commented out prepared soil line test.

* FIX: Fur mittens had been altered for a previous test, and never unaltered. Restored to normal values.

* Textile needles added as a requirement for all linen and nettle clothing that use yarn to attach pieces of cloth together.

* Firewood from slender trunk effort increased to match other firewood making. Patchwise option added.

* clay amphora tub renamed to Amphora

* clay large amphora tub renamed to Large Amphora

* Changed loop snares back to using yarn because of quality issue (they were always coming out as poor quality)

* Vanilla leather and fur clothing was using the COMMON skill, while all added recipes were using the HIDEWORKING skill. They now all use HIDEWORKING.






TO DO
Re-balance and analyze linen, leather and nettle clothing as has been done for wool. Consider the process of value added at each step. Change their recipes so that they can have higher/lower qualities. (this is more time consuming that you'd guess)

(The same approach will not work with fur, because it would interfere with the way fur clothing borrows properties from the type of fur used, e.g. bear. At the present time, I don't forsee any way for me to modify fur clothing so that it can have varying quality.)

Determine to what extent it makes sense for leather and fur clothing to use textile needles. Research how such clothing was actually fastened.

Clay playset needs different tile graphic.

Digging clay too easy? Rebalance?

Incorporate manure mod into BAC.

Ensure compatibility of Privateer's bees, mead and coop mods with BAC (Privateer does not wish them to be incorporated directly)

Look into other mods to incorporate.

MAYBE TO DO (WAY IN FUTURE)

Add chainmail as optional craftable menu (ahistoric, but not implausible)

Bert Preast

« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2022, 04:03:15 PM »
A very minor thing I have noticed before, so not specific to this version - Why do some wooden tubs stack but not others?  In my cellar I have loads of them, all filled with milk.  Five have stacked together, and two more in a separate stack, but the others remain as singles.  Any ideas?

rudy

« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2022, 06:47:04 PM »
A very minor thing I have noticed before, so not specific to this version - Why do some wooden tubs stack but not others?  In my cellar I have loads of them, all filled with milk.  Five have stacked together, and two more in a separate stack, but the others remain as singles.  Any ideas?
Short answer: I'm not sure.

Long answer: Stacking is a complicated thing. When it comes to foods that spoil, for example, they will only stack if they are at the same spoilage state, I think. Milk doesn't spoil, so that shouldn't be the issue.

With other objects, stacking requires they be completely identical in every property. As far as I'm aware, the wooden tub crafted by the mod has the same properties as the vanilla one. Does it seem to be the case that some of the wooden tubs are ones you crafted, and ones are ones you traded for? If the modded ones are stacking separately from the traded-for ones, then that may be a mod issue, and one I will but on the list of "to be investigated"

On the other hand, I've noticed, in some rare cases, two vanilla objects won't stack for reasons I cannot ascertain. If all your wooden tubs are ones you traded for, then this is likely to be the same issue here, and I don't think the mod has anything to do with it.

There are other strange stacking rules that I don't fully grasp. Pots that you have just traded for, for example, will not stack with pots that you have previously used to cook, even if both are empty. But once you've used them to cook with, they will then stack.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2022, 06:48:38 PM by rudy »

Bert Preast

« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2022, 12:02:52 AM »
All my tubs are lovingly crafted with my own two hands, split spruce twigs and boards.

I see what you mean though, I suspect that the stacking tubs may all have been filled with milk on the same day.  Maybe if I empty them into a barrel or cask then refill them, they will stack?  I reckon that could be it!

rudy

« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2022, 05:26:55 PM »
The next major update is working on furs and leather. I'd consider feedback on the following very valuable as I work to finalize the changes.

// Rudy - First, it's important for new players to know that fur clothing inherits protections from the TYPE of fur used in its creation. Bear fur generally giving the best protection/warmth.
// Most crafed fur clothing is superior in protection to the generic "fur" type clothing that you can trade for, as a result. When you craft a shirt using bear fur, it will be crafted as a
// "bear fur shirt", and be superior to a "fur shirt". For unknown reasons, the "bear fur shirt" is far LESS valuable than the generic "fur shirt" that you trade for, in spite of being
// superior. This is one of the things I have attempted to adjust for.

// I removed the [ARMOUR_MATERIAL:fur] lines from the modded armor items. This was preventing them from inheriting the greater protection values from specific types of fur, and instead
// just assigning them the protection values of generic "fur". This necessitated changing the base item of Fur footwraps to a fur cap, but that presents no issues. [TYPE:armour] is also
// unnecessary, as that is inherited from the base item.

// Vanilla fur clothing is slightly 'lossy', usually requiring 0.2 pounds more fur than the weight of the final product. Fur required by modded fur clothing was adjusted to match that.
// The fur loincloth actually required only 0.5 pounds of fur to create something weighing 1 pound! This has been fixed.

// Adjustments made to hood/cap/mask/niska.  Originally the hood weighed 1.1 pounds, and covers the face, neck and head. The cap (vanilla) and the mask and niska (modded) each cover
// only one of those things and weighed 1 pound each, making the hood the only thing it makes sense to make. The weight of the cap, mask and niska were reduced to 0.5 pounds each,
// for a total of 1.5 pounds. The fur hood weight was increased to 1.3 pounds. Thus fur hood is still slightly better if you want coverage of all three areas, but the individual
// items have their place as well.
// This does not affect the weight of the vanilla fur cap or hood that you might acquire from trading (though the fur hood from trading won't be as good as a "bear fur hood" for example).

// When considering the value that fur clothing should have, there are several limitations and considerations. There does not appear to be a way to make the value of the final product
// depend on the kind of fur used, so "bear fur cap" and "elk fur cap" will always have the same value.
// To make balance decisions, we have to look at the value of the base furs, first. Value per pound of some major fur sources:
// Elk: 1.25   Bear: 1.875   Badger: 2   Reindeer: 2.5      Squirrel: 3.33      Ermine/Hare/Weasel: 4      Grey Seal: 4.4
// All others are *significantly* more valuable per pound, from 7.5 up to 30, and so given the option it makes more sense to reserve those for direct trading rather than
// make them into fur clothing.

// A further limitation is clothing/fur quality. Fur clothing is always of decent quality, regardless of the fur used, due to a hard-coded limitation. There are ways to get around this for
// other clothing types (see wool clothing), but doing so for fur clothing prevents the inheritance of protections specific to the type. In other words, if I change the recipes to allow
// for "fine" or "masterwork" fur clothing, the higher protection of "bear fur", e.g. is lost. That does not seem a good trade, so we are sticking with the enforced "decent" quality fo
// fur clothing. This also means, unfortunately, that "ragged/harsh" furs, e.g., can be used to make clothing of decent quality. In fact, it only makes sense to do so with them, rather than
// trade them directly.

// With all this in mind, players will be presented with a short explanation that normal fur clothing should only be crafted using decent or higher quality furs, for balance reasons.
// This is not enforceable in-game, but many such issues are addressed by individual recipes (such as the instructions to players to shear each sheep only once), and so will be left
// to the sense of fair play of the players themselves. There will be a few new fur recipes that will be added that can use ragged/harsh furs to craft, e.g., a "rough fur cloak", but ones
// that will not inherent the properties of the animal type (and thus be inferior in protection, as they should be).

// With these prices and limitations in mind, I have attempted to balance around the idea of fur clothing being worth 2.5 per pound of fur used in the final product. Assuming that
// players abide by the intended restriction of not using ragged/harsh furs, then this makes turning elk fur into clothing into a profitable venture, but not obscenely so, and the final
// product is no more valuable than reindeer fur, and so should not present a major balance issue. Bear fur is profitable when turned into clothing, and badger slightly so. Reindeer
// clothing is equally valuable to the base furs, while all other furs are more valuable NOT turned into clothing. All of these statements depend on using decent quality furs; when the
// furs are fine or superior, the profitability shifts in favor of keeping the furs (only elk fur is more valuable as clothing when of Superior quality or higher).

// None of this can affect on impact the value of the generic fur clothing that you can purchase in settlements, which are not always in balance with one another in terms of materials used.
// For instance, fur overcoat and fur leggings are both worth around 2.7 per pound of fur used, while fur leggings are worth around 1.7 per pound, and fur footwear worth 4 per pound.

Tinker

« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2023, 11:47:00 AM »
Finally got around to testing this and have a couple of comments on the excellent idea for reworking iron and steel billets.

The time seems a little low in comparison with other metal working stages, perhaps 5 or 10 minutes longer. The main problem is that due to hardcoded game engine code when you craft items it will use the best quality ingredients and the best quality tools to make the best item your skill can do. The engine will use your best billets even if they are on the floor, but here we want the lower quality item to improve it. The easiest way to do this to give a weight of billet required, so #0.5#, it then requires you to select which billet from your inventory. I also replaced the wrought with a wildcard so I can rework iron obtained by recovering iron from old axes.

Another thing I thought about was that as this is classified as an advanced metal working process it should require advanced tools, at least an iron hammer and maybe a metal anvil and tongs.

rudy

« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2023, 08:04:58 PM »
Thanks, Tinker. I'll consider that for the next version.

Speaking of which, I'm out of town, but next version should be around the end of the month?

Major changes so far include reworking/rebalancing of fur&leather clothing, as well as incorporation of Privateer's coops/hives/mead (with permission from him).

 

anything