Topic: [Fixed - persists in 3.50b2] Some clothes weigh too much  (Read 740 times)


koteko

  • Honorary Lifetime Supporter
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 169
    • View Profile
« on: February 22, 2018, 12:12:26 PM »
I think there are a few pieces of cloth that escaped review, at the previous version.

Cloak: weights 6, 6.5 and 14 lbs for nettle/wool/fur respectively. However, it covers pretty much like a tunic (only difference: cloak covers knees where tunic covers upper arms). The tunic weights 2.8 for nettle/linen and 5 for wool, so the cloak should be reduced a bit. Incidentally, fur cloak weights too much compared to wool. Maybe a bit less? Or wool should be raised, since it should be quite a bit heavier than cloth.

Overcoat: wool weights 5.5, fur weights 15. Even worse than cloak. A bit too much difference?

Leggings: woollen 3.5, leather 2.9, fur 3.5. In other pieces of cloth, seems like leather should weight more than wool and less than fur. So here 2.9 is strange.

Undergarment: covers as much as a tunic, and less than an undershirt. However, it weights 4 for linen and 7 for wool, much more than tunic (2.8 and 5) and still more than undershirt (3 and 5), which is supposedly bigger. Incidentally, tunic and undershirt have the same weight for wool, while undershirt is bigger. I'd probably notch woollen tunic down by a bit, eg 4.7 or something.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 08:32:52 PM by Sami »

Mati256

  • Honorary Lifetime Supporter
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 57
    • View Profile
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2018, 02:45:37 PM »
When you say they cover the same areas, do they give the same protection too?

koteko

  • Honorary Lifetime Supporter
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 169
    • View Profile
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2018, 03:05:14 PM »
Yes, protection is given by the material, one of these:

Code: [Select]
lamellar / iron / mail / leather / fur / cloth / wool / birch-bark
So if you make a modded item of fur, covering the whole body and weighting 0.1 lbs, you'll get those fur protection values everywhere.

Hence, since tunic and undergarment have the same material and same coverage, they give the same protection even though they have different weight.

You can see coverage here: https://www.unrealworld.fi/wiki/index.php?title=Clothing#Armour_Coverage

Some weight and protection values are wrong in there (I will update them to 3.5b2 when I have time), but coverage should be correct.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 03:21:13 PM by koteko »

Sami

  • UnReal World creator
  • Administrator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 198
  • UnReal World creator
    • View Profile
    • UnReal World
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2018, 08:29:21 PM »
Yes, it seems for example those fur overcoat and cloak weights are slightly too heavy. These pieces came in with armour glossary updates and weights never reasoned properly.
Some other pieces could be tweaked too, some clear errors can be spotted. I'll be taking time to go through the armour clossary weights.



- Sami | UnReal World creator

DfDevadander

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2018, 06:18:48 PM »
This is just my input as someone who owns several different garments that are similar to what one will find in UrW, and the following is a list of what I have IRL with the weight of each item in kilograms and pounds:

Wool Cloak-7 lbs or 3,1 kilograms
Wool Tunic-4 lbs or 1,8 kilograms
Wool Trousers-3,5 lbs or 1,5 kilograms
Wool Leggings (pair)-2,6 lbs or 1,1 kilograms
Wool Kaftan (overcoat)-6 lbs or 2,7 kilograms
Wool Hood (two layers)-1 lb or 0,5 kilogram
Wool Hood (one layer)- 0,6 lb or 0,2 kilograms
Wool Mittens (one layer wool, one layer linen)-0,3 lb or 0,1 kilogram

My only garment that is entirely made of fur is a cloak made from the hide of an adult male whitetail deer; it covers my shoulders and torso completely, the length is just above my knees, and it weighs in at just over 12 lbs or 5,4 kilograms. I'm not sure if elk or reindeer hide is heavier or lighter than our regular deer hide so I don't know if that is really relevant to this.

The wool garments in-game, however, seem to be quite accurate when compared to what I have IRL. Of course, comparing my garments to those of the Iron Age, even though I've done my best to follow traditional designs, methods, and materials, could be considered anachronistic and irrelevant.

koteko

  • Honorary Lifetime Supporter
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 169
    • View Profile
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2018, 06:30:53 PM »
Your overcoat weights less than the cloak? Weird. I guess it also depends a lot on the thickness, that is not handled in game (eg, with different protection values).

It's interesting how many of the values match, though :D thanks for sharing.

DfDevadander

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2018, 02:01:42 PM »
Yes, the kaftan is slightly lighter than the cloak (in my case anyhow) because the cloak is made of thicker wool and is one large rectangle of material, as opposed to the thinner wool of the kaftan that also required less wool since it is made from pieces of material instead of being one large bit of fabric.

I can't personally speak on damage protection, thankfully, but I can attest to the ability of the whole suit to keep me toasty without a fire in temperatures down to around -20 Celsius :)

Sami

  • UnReal World creator
  • Administrator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 198
  • UnReal World creator
    • View Profile
    • UnReal World
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2018, 08:32:32 PM »
Respect for the list of your clothes, DfDevadander. Nice to notice UrW<>IRL matching like that, and would be super cool to see you dressed in that gear.

Koteko, this confused me quite a bit:
Quote
Undergarment: covers as much as a tunic, and less than an undershirt. However, it weights 4 for linen and 7 for wool, much more than tunic (2.8 and 5) and still more than undershirt (3 and 5), which is supposedly bigger. Incidentally, tunic and undershirt have the same weight for wool, while undershirt is bigger. I'd probably notch woollen tunic down by a bit, eg 4.7 or something.
..as the order of which is bigger piece of clothing should go from smallest to largest: undershirt, overcoat, undergarment. I wonder if there's something wrong with your character clothing coverages...?

But anyway, things are adjusted now and the weight changes will go as follows:

        * Woollen tunic - now weighs 4.6 lbs (was 5)
       
        * Nettle cloak  - now weighs 2.6 lbs (was 6)
        * Woollen cloak - now weighs 5.3 lbs (was 6.5)
        * Fur cloak     - now weighs 11.5 lbs (was 14)
 
        * Woollen overcoat - now weighs 6.3 lbs (was 5.5)
        * Fur overcoat     - now weighs 13.5 lbs (was 15)

        * Leather leggings - now weighs 6.3 lbs (was 2.9)
        * Fur leggings     - now weighs 7.4 lbs (was 3.5)

So some pieces were also way too light. Some of this was result of simple typos mixed with too haste copy&pastes.

Fixed - persists in 3.50b2
- Sami | UnReal World creator

koteko

  • Honorary Lifetime Supporter
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 169
    • View Profile
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2018, 10:31:24 PM »
That's great, Sami! Thanks for looking into this.

Regarding undergarment, my laziness won and I trusted the wiki: there, undergarment covers as much as tunic, and both are smaller than overcoat (that covers exactly like undershirt).

Maybe it's old information.. I shall double check on my 3.5b2 data.

Sami

  • UnReal World creator
  • Administrator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 198
  • UnReal World creator
    • View Profile
    • UnReal World
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2018, 06:10:11 PM »
That's great, Sami! Thanks for looking into this.

Regarding undergarment, my laziness won and I trusted the wiki: there, undergarment covers as much as tunic, and both are smaller than overcoat (that covers exactly like undershirt).

Maybe it's old information.. I shall double check on my 3.5b2 data.

Undergarment coverages were bugged prior to 3.40b3 so the Wiki probably refers to those. So it's old/bugged information.
- Sami | UnReal World creator