Topic: De-hair rotted within 24 hours or less  (Read 2415 times)


Brygun

« on: December 19, 2020, 10:35:22 AM »
In Tukka's journies I had an elk skin on de-hair scheduled for the 5th day of the last week to midsummer. In his travels, which Ive being blogging, he was at the camp and checking on the hair. I recall seeing 3 days left on it and that would put it at this time.

On the scheduled day Tuukka is at his farming camp. He arrives in daylight on that very same scheduled day.

The elk hide de-hairing is found rotted.

Thats within 24 hours on something that was something for 10 days. Probably within 12 hours.

The rate of rotting on dehairing needs to be broadened or some other bug happened.


PALU

« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2020, 10:43:39 AM »
It seems the degrading check is performed during the "morning" section when the day ticks over, and if you're unlucky, you can have your meat degrade (to stale) on the first such turn over. If the hide was in the worst state when set to being dehaired I can imagine that it could degrade the last step into rotten on the day turnover from the end of the dehairing session.

However, I would assume the hide was in a decent condition when the process was started, in which case the decay rate would be too high.

Brygun

« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2020, 09:59:10 PM »
Perhaps with things taking so long to process a tweak could be made to lower the degradation one day each step. This would garauntee that the player has at least a full 24 hours to get back.

In Tuukka's case he wasn't very far away, as in a few wilderness tiles, and had checked a couple days earlier. The instant rot is a bit frustrating.

Dr.Hossa

« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2020, 11:01:51 PM »
I've never been measuring it, but i wasted so much leather that one day i decided to only de-hair hides when i am constantly at home, like in winter for example.

Brygun

« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2020, 08:08:40 AM »
It is proving a bit too finicking on the fur tanning of large hides. Did something get changed?

Tuukka caught an elk in a pit trap right outside his smoke house. Between the tanning, butchering and smoking phases it took a day or two to do all those chores. The hide skin and clean was the very first step. The butchering had to be done to get the animal fat. The hide from this same kill had been cleaned and on first tanning step (where you apply the fat).

When Tuukka woke up the next day that hide is now rotten.

Its apparently our choice now to either get a skin or a hide not both. This doesn't get much better than having the elk caught on the same wilderness tile as your house and yet the hide rotted.


jonottawa

« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2020, 05:48:59 PM »
Yes, there is definitely a bug/feature around leather rotting before it is scheduled for the next step in the tanning process but I had thought it was because I traveled too far away. I have lost a few bear leathers that way.

jonottawa

« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2020, 06:02:29 PM »
It is proving a bit too finicking on the fur tanning of large hides. Did something get changed?

Tuukka caught an elk in a pit trap right outside his smoke house. Between the tanning, butchering and smoking phases it took a day or two to do all those chores. The hide skin and clean was the very first step. The butchering had to be done to get the animal fat. The hide from this same kill had been cleaned and on first tanning step (where you apply the fat).

When Tuukka woke up the next day that hide is now rotten.

Its apparently our choice now to either get a skin or a hide not both. This doesn't get much better than having the elk caught on the same wilderness tile as your house and yet the hide rotted.
I've never seen this issue. The issue I've seen ONLY pertains to LEATHER rotting (while it soaks) ahead of schedule. Processing a single elk (fur/meat) shouldn't be an issue if one focuses solely on that task and hits the timers in a logical order.

Brygun

« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2020, 07:29:27 PM »
It may be affected by;

= The animal fat coming out last not first from the butchering, it took a sleep cycle (8 hours) to get through the 300+ lb beast
Solution: shift animal fat to come off first not at the end of butchering
simulates the fat being under the skin or braking open the skull for the tanning material asap

= question: is the timer on the hide started once you have it off the animal or when the animal is first put on the map?
In the case sample of Tuukka returning to find an elk he had been on a ~3 week journey to meet a quest giving sage back at an old village. The animal could have been in the trap anywhere over that month.



JP_Finn

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« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2020, 05:14:37 AM »
The skin ‘spoilage-timer’ starts when the animal dies. Not on map entry, nor skinning.

The tanning and de-hairing timers are related to the weight. I think checking the timers/algorithm on the de-hairing of largest skins might be a good place to start.

One way to prioritize the tanning procedure is to keep extra sheets of alder/rowan bark available. Applying tanning agent is easy task and reduces fatigue... so less time spent resting between tasks. (Yes, no skill penalty butchering, but won’t be too fatigued to move after big animal butchering)

Brygun

« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2020, 06:49:58 AM »
The large animals do seem to need longer timers.

if you factor in the butchering time to get the fat >at the end< you need one if not two sleep cycles so its 24 hours plus

Again, if we got the fat at the beginning you could do that better

I managed one by using bark not the fat for tanning so I could tan right away. Bit of problem that the bark is now a seasonal access and wow... do you go through it fast tanning.


JP_Finn

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« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2020, 07:18:04 AM »
While I do fully agree with you on the timers needing a check/fix.
I don’t go big game hunting without bearpipes. (As long as you can stay awake 20-30min after eating bear pipe, your vigor goes up to Lively. Often I kill elk or bear, skin it, maybe clean it before getting weary/extremely tired, ear bear pipe, get to tanning with bark or butcher the  beast and then tan.
Some times the kill is closer and the character is vigorous/lively to begin with. Then it’s easy to skin, clean, butcher, /haul to base or /tan. Without the bear pipe. Some times hauling the skin/meat to base/cabin pushes the toon to extremely tired and I want the meat in cellar during warm times *before* morning, and the day ticking over.

Lately I’ve been rolling characters with weight over 220lbs, and those big guys, they haul a bear whole to base. Sometimes even pre-butchered elk.

Until the timers get checked, I’ll keep bear pipe on me at any time I think there’s a chance to bump into big game (which is always outside base/homestead/farm plot/local lake, river, or sea when fishing.

PALU

« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2020, 02:18:02 PM »
If you use bark to tan then you've got a piece of fat in store for the next kill (assuming it hasn't gone off in the mean time).

I'm not sure I've had to sleep twice to do the first pass of elk skin tanning (i.e. the first step called tanning). It's not unusual to immediately fall asleep at the end of that step, though, as I push my characters to get through this step as quickly as possible.
- Haul skin and as much meat as possible back to base and cellar (after skinning/butchering, which may have resulted in a sleep if at the end of the day).
- Clean/tan skin
- Collect the rest of the meat (can be done before the previous step if not summer).
- Process as much meat as possible, but break off as soon as the skin needs its second pass. In this case there may be need for a second sleep before all the meat has been processed, but the skin should be in its second stage.
- Process the last of the meat
- Possibly strategic sleep to be prepared for the fight to beat up the skin.

I haven't used bear pipe as much as I should (probably only once), but really ought to include it in the equation during summer.

Brygun

« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2020, 02:48:08 PM »
1) Bark is only harvestable in early summer (now). So stocks get depleted fast. For large animals I've used up3-4 pieces of bark to get enough. Now nearing midwinter the stocks are just about used up.

2) The animal's own fat is supposed to be useable to tan the same animal. Currently you only get the fat at the end of butchering. For a 300 lb kill that is going to be after hours if not forcing a sleep. Bear in mind you could already be tired when you find or catch the animal.




JP_Finn

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« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2020, 05:34:34 PM »
Meat processing in winter isn't needed, just push the entire pile (-1) to nearest tree or boulder to keep wild life and dogs from eating it.
It'll preserve fine until spring.

I'm not sure why there's 2nd sleep in your scenario, unless woken up by rain/noise before Vigorous. eating a Bearpipe before passing out at "ready to drop" will speed the sleep duration from ~12h to mere ~2-3h (takes 1/2h to kick in, boost to Lively, then sleep to vigorous. e.g. Ready to Drop at Little Hours, eat bearpipe, lay down to sleep. Wake up Early morning-Morning at Vigorous.

Yeah sadly Bark isn't harvestable in the cold/frozen weather. It should be doable to get bark scraped off and boiled into tanning liquid.

I try to harvest tanning and crafting bark in the early summer after "stabilizing" from spring start, before plants are ready for harvest. (time it with cabin build et cetera) 30-40 pieces should do in the few cases when already "Extremely tired"  when making the kill.

Also trying to time the skinning to finish just after day-tick at Morning, or well before to have time to clean&applying tanning agent.
fresh killed carcass hasn't ever lost 'condition level' for me over the day-ticking over, but sometimes, the skin might.

Still, I do agree to have the spoilage timers checked on tanning/de-hairing large skins.

IRL, when I don't have time/interest/energy to work on skins, (from hunting) I lay them between newspaper sheets and roll up. Put them in freezer for later processing. No noticeable deterioration in at least 4months. i.e. winter time skin shouldn't rot. except when left too long with tanning agent on them. Fresh skin, clean skin, rinsed skin all should "stay good until spring"

Brygun

« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2020, 08:47:41 PM »
Maybe one help could be for the multiple day de-hair and cure that it no longer references when the kill was taken but when that process was to finish. That way you have a few days from a many day activity to get to it.

As for the one time the skin rotted so quickly Im both surprised it happened but it didnt repeat on my next ones. Might well have been bad luck on the day timers.

Still agree the large hides need to consider the scenarios vs real life.