Topic: Skin sizes, adjust please.  (Read 5914 times)


JP_Finn

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« on: December 12, 2020, 06:26:34 AM »
Deer and elk calf skins are minuscule.
Also, boars and sows give only 4lbs skin and seals 5lbs. Yet the body/torso size of ‘sus scrofa’ isn’t much smaller from ‘rangifer tarandus fennica’
I.e. reindeer yield 8lbs skins for roughly same body area.

E.g. making a skin for liquids takes 4lbs of leather, that’s the entire pig’s skin. Of course there’s some loss, but the ratio is way off.

Tl;dr; please check: calves, boars and sows, and seal skin yields.

Preferably around:
3lbs skin from young deer calves, 5lbs (winter skin) from old calves*
8lbs skin from elk calves, 12lbs (winter skin) from older calves*
6-7lbs skin from boars, sows
edit: 6lbs from ringed seals, 16-20lbs from grey seals

another edit
* see another related Suggestion for calf sizes by @Buoidda
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 04:35:35 PM by JP_Finn »

Buoidda

« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2020, 03:11:04 PM »
You stole my suggestion! Also the bird skins seem all about 0.3lbs regardless of bird size.

I'd put more on grey seals than ringed and elk calves yield not smaller than adult reindeer.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 06:52:09 AM by Buoidda »

PALU

« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2020, 08:57:23 PM »
I've got a feeling the bird skins actually are of different sizes, but you'd need stacks of them to compare the sizes until the multi digit descriptions are released.

JP_Finn

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« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2020, 09:28:01 PM »
Edited the Suggestion.
And yes, now that you mentioned it, willow grouse, capercaillie, or swan skins should be definitely varied sizes.

Labtop 215

« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2020, 08:00:52 PM »
Bird skins do vary in size, and you can test it by making a trying to make a bandage out of them.

The bandage requires 1.00 lbs of cloth, and you can see the difference in weight by how much more "cloth" you need to make bandage.  Some weight 0.28, some weigh 0.25, some weigh 0.24, ect.

Buoidda

« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2020, 09:59:13 AM »
It's a bit tricky to get these feel accurate, since they are represented in weight but it makes more sense to think of them in sq footage or smth.
A thick reindeer hide could be heavier than a seal-skin which has almost no hair to compare, even when covering smaller area.

Having said that, I'd put grey seal skin way above 10 lbs - closer to bear's 18 or elk's 24lbs. Big grey seals can be as much as 2,5 meters long and weigh over 300kg / 660 lbs. (Avg female 1,6-2 m; 100-190kg; wikipedia) 20lbs sounds nice and round like the seals themselves  ;D

5lbs of grey seal skin... luckily none of the grey seal grandmothers don't know about this. They'd be turning in their abyssal graves...  :o

Ringed seals would be smaller on average than reindeer skins, but close. Maybe 6-7lbs.

Calves' skin sizes are quite debatable. In real life: The new spring calves are really small, but grow quickly during the year. First autumn skin would be about third to half of an adult skin size - a year later almost adult skin size. So basically anything below that can be considered 'right' - the calves' graphic does look quite small though. (EDIT: I made a sug about calves.)

Adult animals' skin size varies too - sometimes substantially - but I won't get into that now. It's fine.

Btw, I was aware of the slight difference of grouse family skins. But I haven't met a single bird skin (swans and such included) that was much bigger. Added 'about' in my second comment.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 08:05:06 PM by Buoidda »

PALU

« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2020, 01:03:33 PM »
A problem with many skin sizes is that it results in de-stacking of skins from the same species. However, I'd rather see ways to deal with an increased number of stacks than a reduction (or omission of an increse) of the number of skin sizes.

JP_Finn

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« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2020, 04:19:43 PM »
Palu, I’m not suggesting there would be range of ‘perfect’ skin weights gotten from animals. I’m suggesting the gained skins weight would be adjusted to that area by Sami.
 I.e. if Sami would adjust an elk calf perfect skin weight to 8lbs, then skinning elk calf would yield 8lbs skin when perfect quality.

Maybe the calves; reindeers and elks alike should have the initial  skin 1/3 of the adults size.
~3.3lbs for reindeer’s and 8lbs for elks. Once winter hits, and game switches animal hides to ‘winter’ upgrade the calves skin sizes to half of their adult size. Trying to think a way for realism, but also for relative KISS from game mechanics side.

PALU

« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2020, 07:35:20 PM »
My comment was really aimed at Buoidda' s post. Changing the size in conjunction with the appearance of the winter fur is a clever move that both accounts for the creature growth and refrains from adding additional sizes for the same fur type.

Sami

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« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2020, 01:58:38 PM »
Also, boars and sows give only 4lbs skin and seals 5lbs. Yet the body/torso size of ‘sus scrofa’ isn’t much smaller from ‘rangifer tarandus fennica’
I.e. reindeer yield 8lbs skins for roughly same body area.

E.g. making a skin for liquids takes 4lbs of leather, that’s the entire pig’s skin. Of course there’s some loss, but the ratio is way off.

Tl;dr; please check: calves, boars and sows, and seal skin yields.

If I recall correctly the average wild boar skins in the game should be closer to 5 lbs, big ones might reach the 6 occasionally. The original finnish landrace pig which is now extinct was said to be rather small and skinny creature. But maybe these could increased little. I'll ponder. However, the liquid skin material requirement seems way off indeed. I think it's a bit anachronistic item anyway. To tune or to remove, that is the question.

Quote
Deer and elk calf skins are minuscule.

Preferably around:
3lbs skin from young deer calves, 5lbs (winter skin) from old calves*
8lbs skin from elk calves, 12lbs (winter skin) from older calves*

But... the calf/cub skin sizes already naturally depend on the age and thus the size of the calf. It's not a fixed value - if people thought so? There's nothing to adjust with calves. You can find all the calf skin weight examples you mentioned, and everything in between, and more.

Quote
edit: 6lbs from ringed seals, 16-20lbs from grey seals

The seal skin yields seem low indeed and would need adjustments. I'll have a look at those values.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2020, 02:24:19 PM by Sami »
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