Topic: No f*cking way i would play.  (Read 1014 times)


Grax

« on: April 28, 2019, 01:39:10 PM »
I tried to attack a njerp (from uphill) with a bow, and every time fk i miss.
(000000):78gd:[Y]{043F062A}      | You execute a steady shot. The broadhead arrow flies true at the Njerpez warrior but the shield protects him.
(AB5700):78gd:
  • {043F062A}      | Your broadhead arrow hits his shield.


Then i tried to change all chrs to max 18. (cheating, yes)

Aaaaaand. Nothing changed.
(000000):78gd:[N]{043F062A}      | Njerpez warrior aims his hunting bow at you and shoots.
(000000):78gd:[H]{043F062A}      | His broadhead arrow flies past you.
(143270):78gd:
  • {043F062A}      | Aiming Zone: Body

(000000):78gd:[Y]{043F062A}      | You aim your hunting bow at the Njerpez warrior and shoot.
(000000):78gd:[Y]{043F062A}      | You execute a steady shot. The broadhead arrow flies true at the Njerpez warrior but the shield protects him.
(AB5700):78gd:
  • {043F062A}      | Your broadhead arrow hits his shield.


Daf*k. How can a buckler shield 60cm in diameter protect from an arrow flying at 100m/s?!

And this repeated for 20 times until my death.
What was changed it the targeting system? How this happened?

Saiko Kila

« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2019, 03:37:37 PM »
I have met Njerp good enough with shield to block all my arrows and javelins. Note that they can carry it in different modes (there are fours modes), with some not requiring much skill from them. I don't know what mode he used, but he probably couldn't see you while approaching, but able to block most if not all hits. If he could see, then you should try to attack his head, which is then unprotected by shield. If you attack "Body", then it can hit anywhere, but most probable parts are covered in most defending modes by shield.

Also there are not bucklers - these are big shields (they weight 6 lbs), so it's conceivable.

By the way, if you changed attributes to 18 it shouldn't affect anything, you should have changed bow skill to 100, and even then it would be affected by burden or fatigue. I suppose critical hits with bow skill at 100 could allow penetration (criticals are roughly 20% of tries), if lucky and you accidentally aimed at the part which is not protected.

Dungeon Smash

« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2019, 04:32:57 PM »
This led me to thinking... what type of shield are Unreal World shields, exactly?  I always assumed they represented "Viking" shields, and the in-game graphic seems to support this.  However, 6 lbs is quite light for a Viking-era shield..
http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/text/viking_shields.htm

Quote
The thin, unfaced reproduction shields shown in the photographs on this page weigh about 5kg (11lbs), while the thicker, leather covered shields weigh more than 7kg (15lbs) when dry.
These shields are about 3 feet in diameter and 0.25 - 0.5 inches in thickness.  With the shields shown here, you can imagine how someone could almost completely protect themselves from arrows by crouching down low behind the shield.

However, the UnReal World shield appears to be different, based on the weight.  It must be smaller in diameter, or thinner, or both. It could actually be more similar to the buckler that the OP described.  I wonder if Sami or Erkka could give us their thoughts... if it is meant to be a Viking-style shield, perhaps the weight should be increased?

Grax

« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2019, 05:57:03 PM »
Okay. Let's suppose a buckler's good enough to block ALL arrows while a man is sitting crouched.
But no man can move this shield from head to legs in a 1/25s while being standing.
Because i shoot at them at a distanse of 1-2-3 squares (2-4-6 meters?).

AND THEY ARE SHOOTING THEIR FKNG ARROWS AT ME WHILE HOLDING A SHIELD!

How much time's between a single move?
Why can't i see in which position they holding the shield?

Why can't i shot them right with a dexterity=18, 36 (and 80!).

With all x at 80 moving speed is about 50 km/h while running, 15-17 while walking.
ANY other NPCs are moving maximum at 6/22 km/h and i can't outrun them.

Any suggestions now?
IMHO, all the battle system now is overfkd. Previos version were much better.

PALU

« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2019, 08:37:08 PM »
I believe you can look at enemies and see what position they hold their shield in, and thus aim at an exposed part (most of those shots will fail to hit where they're aimed and get blocked by the shield anyway). A shield is held in a position, so arrows hitting the shield were fired towards a protected body part (even if aimed elsewhere).

I've never seen anyone fire an arrow while holding a shield. If they do it's a bug.

Once they get into range they remove the shield and melee weapon, equip the bow, and fire. If you observe them carefully you can move out of range while they equip the bow (assuming your character isn't fatigued or injured enough to be too slow). Eventually the enemy will run itself into the ground with fatigue. You can then fire at them from outside their attacking range until you hit (takes a lot of arrows!) sufficiently to get them unconscious. You can also move in for a melee kill when they're exhausted, although you take a risk that they'll get a lucky shot in (but you can try to use trees as cover, if present).

If you try to move at a speed above the maximum, it wouldn't be surprising if you're actually capped at the maximum, and if you run you'll tire, and when tired you're running slower and slower, until you're moving slower than you would have while walking (and eventually you're not able to move at all).

I don't know about a previous battle system, but I haven't played longer than a number of years.

Saiko Kila

« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2019, 09:37:22 PM »
This led me to thinking... what type of shield are Unreal World shields, exactly?  I always assumed they represented "Viking" shields, and the in-game graphic seems to support this.  However, 6 lbs is quite light for a Viking-era shield..
http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/text/viking_shields.htm

Quote
The thin, unfaced reproduction shields shown in the photographs on this page weigh about 5kg (11lbs), while the thicker, leather covered shields weigh more than 7kg (15lbs) when dry.
These shields are about 3 feet in diameter and 0.25 - 0.5 inches in thickness.  With the shields shown here, you can imagine how someone could almost completely protect themselves from arrows by crouching down low behind the shield.

However, the UnReal World shield appears to be different, based on the weight.  It must be smaller in diameter, or thinner, or both. It could actually be more similar to the buckler that the OP described.  I wonder if Sami or Erkka could give us their thoughts... if it is meant to be a Viking-style shield, perhaps the weight should be increased?

Yes, this the round shield in UrW represents the viking shield, which as described in the article was usually 70-100 cm in diameter (depending on the size of user). Though the shields described on the hurstwic page are at least double in weight, they are heavier reconstructions than originals obviously. Originals were from linden wood (which is lighter than many others) and were thinner (as is indicated on the page).

However, the real reason UrW use roundshield with specific size is that it was the shield used in HarnMaster (where it was based on viking shield). Here are the shield from HarnMaster third edition:
Buckler 3 lbs
Knight Shield 5 lbs
Round Shield 6 lbs
Kite Shield 7 lbs
Tower Shield 8 lbs

They are kind of light, especially the bigger ones. For some reason only the middle size is currently in the game.

By the way, as the article says, viking knew about smaller roundshields (bucklers and targes) but their main shields were bigger than these.

Okay. Let's suppose a buckler's good enough to block ALL arrows while a man is sitting crouched.
But no man can move this shield from head to legs in a 1/25s while being standing.

One turn lasts for 10 seconds I believe... Which is kinda slow, there are real world archers who can shoot about 10 arrows in that time. But that's not UnReal World :)

Quote
AND THEY ARE SHOOTING THEIR FKNG ARROWS AT ME WHILE HOLDING A SHIELD!

This sounds like a bug. Because they should use both hands to shoot (just like Player Character), and couldn't use a shield while doing so. They can, however, strap the shield to their back, then wield bow, use it, and that's probably what was happening (see the message log). Still, it should use time. Is your character slow, encumbered or wounded?

Quote
How much time's between a single move?
Theoretically 10 seconds - or more.

Quote
Why can't i see in which position they holding the shield?

I don't know - I can see the shield's position when I look at them. Are you playing current version for sure? Also it's possible (though hard to test) that if they carry the shield in neutral position (without choosing style) then it is not described in any meaningful way. But when I cared to look, the style has been always indicated, so far.

Quote
Why can't i shot them right with a dexterity=18, 36 (and 80!).

Because DEX is not important at all for this, only skill at bow, and the actual bow (some of them fail more spectacularly). Plus luck with rolls. Dexterity is used for example to determine if you drop your weapon when hit, or if you catch a tree when falling from it.

Quote
With all x at 80 moving speed is about 50 km/h while running, 15-17 while walking.
ANY other NPCs are moving maximum at 6/22 km/h and i can't outrun them.

So hacking speed above limit still increases actual speed? Nice. But apparently the limit of 10 seconds per turn still stands.

Sami

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« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2019, 06:12:19 PM »
I tried to attack a njerp (from uphill) with a bow, and every time fk i miss.

Then i tried to change all chrs to max 18. (cheating, yes)

Aaaaaand. Nothing changed.

Daf*k. How can a buckler shield 60cm in diameter protect from an arrow flying at 100m/s?!

And this repeated for 20 times until my death.
What was changed it the targeting system? How this happened?

There's so little details in your post that it's impossible to say anything. Screenshots showing the actual situation, and penalties, and distance would help to analyze.
(And they're not buckler though, but roundshields.)
- Sami | UnReal World creator

Grax

« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2019, 06:39:46 PM »
I tried to attack a njerp (from uphill) with a bow, and every time fk i miss.

Then i tried to change all chrs to max 18. (cheating, yes)

Aaaaaand. Nothing changed.

Daf*k. How can a buckler shield 60cm in diameter protect from an arrow flying at 100m/s?!

And this repeated for 20 times until my death.
What was changed it the targeting system? How this happened?

There's so little details in your post that it's impossible to say anything. Screenshots showing the actual situation, and penalties, and distance would help to analyze.
(And they're not buckler though, but roundshields.)
Sorry, this time i didn't make a backup.

But before death i tried to cheat all skills=100 and dexterity at 18, then 36 and then 80. And didn''t evade enemy arrows.
Something strange?

Sami

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« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2019, 10:37:26 AM »

There's so little details in your post that it's impossible to say anything. Screenshots showing the actual situation, and penalties, and distance would help to analyze.
(And they're not buckler though, but roundshields.)
Sorry, this time i didn't make a backup.

But before death i tried to cheat all skills=100 and dexterity at 18, then 36 and then 80. And didn''t evade enemy arrows.
Something strange?

Evade from what distance, with what penalties, how many battle rounds were inspected, what were the game messages?
No, with this little details I can't say if there's anything strange there. Except that putting dexterity (or any attribute) above it's natural level may have game math go wonky with unimaginable results.

People often mistakenly think that in UnReal World 100% skill level and 18 attribute level means success everytime within every deed you may try.
This isn't the case. An ultimate never failing warrior kind of thinking isn't our cup of tea.

I'm happy to investigate many cases like this in more detail IF the details are given. Savegame is often enough, as there are the logs and the situation to be seen.
- Sami | UnReal World creator