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Re: Buff metal armor, nerf leather and furs
For practical experience, I think the first step you need to fulfill when fighting humans is certain level of protection to abdomen. The instant killing disemboweling attack seems to trigger quite easily with low level of edge protection. I think about 6 or so is generally enough to stop it, perhaps bit more. Should still be achievable with the nerfed leathers, though it needs one extra layer of protection. Over the years my standard heavy battlewear has evolved to be this: Leather cap, fur hood, spectacle helm, long mail cowl, linen or wool cowl if I can find one, fur shirt, leather shirt, leather cuirass, fur overcoat, fur mittens, mail mittens, leather forearm guards, coudes, leather belt (it's light... so why not), fur leggings, leather leggings, kneecops, leather shin guards, leather boots and as many socks and footrags the game allows me to wear. 72 lbs all together, assuming a cloth cowl and all three socks. And a shield. Always a shield, even if I don't know how to block with it in melee (I normally use two hander anyway and take off the shield once I have an enemy as an arrow sponge in front of me). The fur is always bear fur, I don't feel the extra edge and blunt defense of masterwork generic fur is worth the loss of the point defense. It's already very heavy protection, most characters will go over 10% encumbrance with weapons, I'm not quite sure I'd use even that much if there wasn't the opportunity to cool off and reduce your fatigue by backing off while dodging/blocking/counterstriking. As you might have noticed there is no cloak there as a modest weight saving, so I'm not about to use additional metal body armor there either. If the mail leggings had foot protection I'd definitely find room for them though, and that would allow me to use the high shield position more comfortably. Function wise I can pretty much guarantee that no single hit will really put my fight into unrecoverable state if I fight smart unless it is to the eye, though if I get dragged down fighting multiple opponents in melee alone I can get taken down by combination of fatigue and multiple hits in the 10-20% damage range. I have gotten damaged even through my hip, for couple of percentage or something. The hip has 18-21 protection depending on how many leather masterworks I find. That being said I have not fought terribly lot in my current game since the Njerps apparently moved all east. I did clear one camp I saw near Reemi territory with couple of dogs but that involved only couple of hits on me, both minor and one of them was definitely one of those hip hits. That battle was really a series of several three-on-ones as the Njerps came to me in perfectly disjointed fashion always allowing me to finish off the one I was fighting before another one found his way to the melee (also only two archers and they came last and breathless, though one nearly killed my dog). I have fought quite a bit against wolves however, having killed at least dozen of them. The above setup seems fully immune to them. I have recollection of two specific events in past versions (but both post Steam release) that disillusioned me about metal armor. One involved a Njerp stabbing me with a knife (can't recall type) through mail and at least one but probably two layers of furs and leathers. I recall wondering whether there is really only 1d2 damage die per weapon power. The second involved an arrow to the knee through probably couple of layers of leather/furs and a kneecop. This also taught me about the power of the shield. The introduction of the quality bonuses was another blow to metal armor to me. Masterwork metal armor only gets +1 point defense bonus, three masterwork leathers give you total of +3 (I'm way more exited to see foreign trader carry masterwork leather than masterwork anything else). I'm fine with not giving as much extra to metal armor as I suggested. However even if leather and fur are reduced to 2 point and 2 edge max regardless of their quality, I'd still at very minimum buff mail +1 to both point and edge to keep habergeon (22lbs) and hauberk (25lbs) more clearly superior to fur cloak, fur shirt and leather shirt combination (about 25lbs). March 19, 2021, 10:39:01 PM |
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Re: Buff metal armor, nerf leather and furs
Alright, I spent some time looking up how damage model works in Harnmaster. I am not previously familiar with the system and don't have any rulebooks, I just read someone's hopefully accurate player's handbook style rundown of it (here: https://batintheattic.blogspot.com/2020/04/a-walk-through-harnmaster-combat-part-2.html). Previously only technical description related to URW's damage model I had read was the short bit on URW wiki which claims weapons get 1d2 damage dice per their damage value, but I knew this to be wrong from experience since weapons can regularly penetrate more then 2x their damage value of armor. It seems what actually happens is that the relative results of the attacker's and defender's rolls are compared and then you get to roll 1-3d6 + weapon damage value vs. armor (with extra d6 if the defender counterstrikes or ignores). I'm not sure how directly this is translated into URW but it matches my experience of actually playing the game quite well. As I wrote before I think 10-12 represents well protected but by no means immune while 18 starts getting to the point a part is immunized. A Njerp with a scimitar with 5 edge would indeed struggle against 10-12 protection, though he could get through even 12 if he gets above average roll on 2d6. And a 3d6 roll with decent result would be required to get past 18. That aside, why I'm really posting again here is that I put together some figures for comparing armors as systems with the various modifications I suggested here. I assume that both mail and iron currently get +1 to both point and edge protection at masterwork, just like leather does. I also assume that there is no hidden buff or anything similar specific to metal armor, in my experience a point of protection is a point of protection no matter where it comes from, but I admit I have not tested that and it's just an impression formed over course of normal gameplay. All furs will be regular quality bear furs, all other items are assumed to be masterworks, so this is intended to demonstrate maximum achievable protection with these sets. The first set is the one I previously described and will be referred to as "battlewear". It consists of: Leather cap, fur hood, spectacle helm, long mail cowl, cloth cowl, fur shirt, leather shirt, leather cuirass, fur overcoat, fur mittens, mail mittens, leather forearm guards, coudes, leather belt, fur leggings, leather leggings, kneecops, leather shin guards, leather boots, woolen socks, woolen footrags and linen footrags. It weights 72 pounds. The second set is what I call "mail set". It consists of: Leather cap, fur hood, spectacle helm, long mail cowl, cloth cowl, fur shirt, mail habergeon, coudes, leather forearm guards, fur mittens, mail mittens, leather belt, fur leggings, mail leggings, leather boots, woolen socks, woolen footrags and linen footrags. It weights 81,7 pounds, significantly more than the battlewear. It also has significant cost: masterwork mail habergeon and leggings alone cost 1000 squirrel furs. I don't think I need to count the price of every garment in the battlewear set to tell this is much more expensive. It is intended to represent a realistic heavy armor set, the kind which warrior would wear if he could buy it. This is the protection that the battlewear currently has: Skull: 22 point, 27 edge Face: 12 point, 14 edge Neck: 10 point, 14 edge Shoulders: 16 point, 19 edge Upper arms: 10 point, 10 edge Elbows: 15 point, 17 edge Arms: 13 point, 13 edge Hands: 9 point, 12 edge Chest: 14 point, 14 edge Waist: 14 point, 14 edge Hips: 21 point, 21 edge Groin: 21 point, 21 edge Thighs: 10 point, 10 edge Knees: 19 point, 21 edge Shins: 15 point, 15 edge Feet: 7 point, 10 edge Pretty decent right? If you are feeling silly (more silly than to use three pairs of socks as foot armor) I suppose you could throw couple of tunics or undershirts there as the upper arms and thighs are the weakest spots to which something can be done. This would give those areas 12 point and 14 edge protection. It would still be lighter than the mail set. This is what the mail set currently has: Skull: 22 point, 27 edge Face: 12 point, 14 edge Neck: 10 point, 14 edge Shoulders: 15 point, 21 edge Upper arms: 9 point, 12 edge Elbows: 12 point, 14 edge Arms: 10 point, 10 edge Hands: 9 point, 12 edge Chest: 9 point, 12 edge Waist: 9 point, 12 edge Hips: 22 point, 28 edge Groin: 22 point, 28 edge Thighs: 9 point, 12 edge Knees: 9 point, 12 edge Shins: 13 point, 16 edge Feet: 7 point, 10 edge The extra protection on the hip from the combination habergeon and leggings is more than a bit wasted since it was already so high. The shoulder is very iffy too. The upper arms and thighs are better protected, but the battlewear has enough free weight to more than make up for it. The torso protection is weak compared to the battlewear. This set is a downgrade: you pay and wear more for less. In case of the suggestion from the opening post. In this situation: Regular fur/leather: 2 point, 2 edge Masterwork fur/leather: 2 point, 2 edge Regular/masterwork cloth of all types: 1 point, 1 edge Regular mail: 7 point, 10 edge Masterwork mail: 9 point, 12 edge Regular iron: 10 point, 12 edge Masterwork iron: 12 point, 14 edge This is what the mail set would have then: Skull: 26 point, 31 edge Face: 14 point, 16 edge Neck: 12 point, 15 edge Shoulders: 20 point, 26 edge Upper arms: 11 point, 14 edge Elbows: 14 point, 16 edge Arms: 6 point, 6 edge Hands: 11 point, 14 edge Chest: 11 point, 14 edge Waist: 11 point, 14 edge Hips: 24 point, 30 edge Groin: 24 point, 30 edge Thighs: 11 point, 14 edge Knees: 11 point, 14 edge Shins: 13 point, 16 edge Feet: 5 point, 5 edge This should hopefully make it clear what I meant when I said that overall buff to armor was not the intention. Even when mail is buffed to 9 point 12 edge at masterwork, the concurrent nerf to furs and leathers means that for the weight this still isn't really better than the current battlewear (though it would be better than the nerfed battlewear, which is the point). Much of the extra protection is again wasted on the already very heavily protected parts. The biggest benefit is probably that the face, neck and hands have now better possible protection. On the other hand the existing weak spot in feet is made more acute, while a new one is introduced in the forearms (needing either rare lamellar bracers or heavy double undershirt and fur overcoat to shore up). The torso is still worse protected. It's not a problem of snowballing protection either from making the mail better. Both sets have lot that could be added to them, it's weight that determines how much can be added to either set. In case of the minimal suggestion from my previous post. In this situation: Regular fur/leather: 2 point, 2 edge Masterwork fur/leather: 2 point, 2 edge Regular/masterwork cloth of all types: 1 point, 1 edge Regular mail: 6 point, 9 edge Masterwork mail: 7 point, 10 edge Iron is left as it is. This is what the mail set would have then: Skull: 21 point, 26 edge Face: 11 point, 13 edge Neck: 10 point, 13 edge Shoulders: 16 point, 22 edge Upper arms: 9 point, 12 edge Elbows: 11 point, 13 edge Arms: 6 point, 6 edge Hands: 9 point, 12 edge Chest: 9 point, 12 edge Waist: 9 point, 12 edge Hips: 20 point, 26 edge Groin: 20 point, 26 edge Thighs: 9 point, 12 edge Knees: 9 point, 12 edge Shins: 11 point, 14 edge Feet: 5 point, 5 edge This is actually slightly weaker than the existing version of this set, so we are now talking about nerf to overall protection. This is what the battlewear would have then: Skull: 21 point, 26 edge Face: 11 point, 13 edge Neck: 10 point, 13 edge Shoulders: 13 point, 16 edge Upper arms: 6 point, 6 edge Elbows: 11 point, 13 edge Arms: 8 point, 8 edge Hands: 9 point, 12 edge Chest: 8 point, 8 edge Waist: 8 point, 8 edge Hips: 12 point, 12 edge Groin: 12 point, 12 edge Thighs: 6 point, 6 edge Knees: 15 point, 17 edge Shins: 8 point, 8 edge Feet: 5 point, 5 edge This is worse than the mail set now. Even if you throw in the 10 pounds worth of clothes, it's not enough to shore up the differences. However I think it's worse to rather marginal degree in comparison to the mail set, and again masterwork body armor and leggings are very expensive and rare. Even if the base mail is limited to 6 point 9 edge, I'd still consider giving metal armor +2 bonus to both point and edge at masterwork. It's also worth noting that in the minimalist scenario regular, rough and possibly fine mail would remain questionable as I pegged this at best possible protection. March 21, 2021, 05:03:52 PM |
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Re: Adventurer Gear
At least he has a cloak, I have seen an adventurer who was butt naked. He also refused to wear any clothing I traded to him, so it was probably some philosophical stance of his. But I'd like to see adventurers have a bit more warrior like getup compared to woodsmen and hunters. Helm and shield typically, maybe some body armor occasionally April 28, 2021, 12:43:51 PM |
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Re: What exactly do the attributes affect?
Mostly they affect your initial skills and your aptitude for skills (you get 1-3 stars, I believe that just makes it level faster). But some of them have major effects beyond that. Notably speed affects your walking/skiing and running speed, while endurance reduces the penalty you get for carrying stuff and makes you more resistant to fatigue. Few of them (like will) affect how well you can resist falling asleep or passing out from pain. And I have heard eyesight and hearing make your more likely to spot or hear things. Strength doesn't, perhaps surprisingly, have any effect on damage beyond making you better with weapons that use strength. It doesn't have anything to do with how much you can carry either. Your maximum carrying capacity is based on your weight, while the penalty you get for carrying things depends on endurance. May 12, 2021, 06:48:11 AM |
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Re: Angry Water Spirits
I always sacrifice fish right after I have picked up my catches and still on the raft. Seems to work every time and keeps the waterfolk happy. I think cooked fish might always go to forest spirits instead.
May 25, 2021, 10:45:05 AM |
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Re: Meteor strike?
The light effects (and rain, it's horrid to look for tracks in rain) are surprisingly atmospheric and functional in URW
June 05, 2021, 02:38:57 PM |
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Re: Is it viable to use a pack of dogs for taking down Njerpez and robbers?
I think the most important things for dealing with accidental encounters with wolves are: 1) Always check your six (with the 180 degree turn). 2) When wolf makes sneak attack on you they attack your neck. Always wear all the neck armor you have in any situation you think you might run into wolf in. 3) Don't use pets aside dogs, the rest aggro wolves unerringly. Three to four big or regular dogs make for reasonable team of haulers. When actually going to hunt wolves: 1) Armor up. And definitely at least mail cowl, cloth cowl (preferably two) and fur hood. Aside that, try to get at least circa 10 tear resistance in every other body part, preferably more. 2) Leave unessential items (water, food, tool axes etc.) elsewhere since you'll be more encumbered than during your typical hunt and wolves are more flighty than bears so you'll end up chasing them more. 3) Patience, my strategy at least is to bring their mobility down with damage and then chase them. Unlike with elks and reindeer I won't be ever bringing one down unless I got it cripple or limp from damage first before chasing it breathless. 4) Always check your six. Even when your are chasing a fleeing wolf down and you think you might be well away from rest of the pack, check your rear from time to time. 5) Consider leaving your dogs elsewhere (tied to a tree on nearby marked tile for example) when going to hunt. They are all but useless at protecting your ass and when they get aggroed they'll just run themselves breathless in the leash. A breathless dog is just giving a fresh wolf opportunity for easy kill. 6) You normally should avoid conifer forests and spruce mires when hunting, but with wolves you'll want to simply stay away as the low visibility can lead to nasty surprises. 7) Don't process the carcass on site of the kill. Either pick it up and carry it elsewhere or go fetch your dogs (a big dog is useful here) and pack it on them. Not a bad idea to ignore the big wolves since they are more of a hassle to carry. Or go kill them last once you have taken down rest of the pack. Wolf hunting is bit different than regular hunting so it's nice change of pace and I don't think it's any more dangerous than bear hunting if you are careful. I never specifically trap wolves, so for me it's either active hunting or one walking into my lynx/wolverine traps. Too bad the otherwise decently valuable hides have habit of getting bit worn in the process, especially since I don't feel like pulling punches (or axe blows) with them. EDIT: I lost a few dogs clearing the villages when they got injured and ran away. I have also lost dogs hunting, but mostly they seem to find their way home eventually. I once nearly lost a dog simply because it decided to go to sleep in middle of a chase. Luckily once I noticed this I was able to backtrack the tracks of the animal I was chasing (since my other dogs and PC didn't leave any) and find the sleeping dog. Had to abort the hunt though. June 16, 2021, 06:06:03 PM |
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Re: Real life names for mushrooms?
The wiki lists the names for the herbs and the berries and crops are self explanatory so I just need to figure out what the mushrooms are. Just note that the Wiki while seemingly generally correct on those accounts does make at least one mistake. Clayweed is almost certainly Chenopodium album aka Jauhosavikka or Saviruoho (=Clayweed), not Clotsfoot. As far as mushrooms go, I had assigned yellowcoat as keltavahvero or chanterelle and on basis of that I thought browncoat would be suppilovahvero, but apparently not. It does make sense if the mushrooms are more loosely based on Finnish mushrooms, yellow finger for one has so early harvest time it can't be any regular Finnish mushroom. August 01, 2021, 11:12:47 AM |
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Re: vitamins
I'd like to see scurvy represented some day at least as it's historically significant ailment that beyond sailors also plagued settlers. In practice though, I already gather ton of nettle and sorrel every autumn for use with green soup and as stew herb and buy some turnips from villagers so I can pretend my character is having something like a balanced diet.
August 01, 2021, 11:34:25 AM |
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[Fixed - persists in 3.71] Incorrect PC height in metric units
PC height is given incorrectly when using metric units. After conversion it's 15-20cm taller than what is given in imperial units. Example from test case: imperial height 79 inches (200,66cm) vs. stated metric height 219cm. Using 3.71 Steam version, tested on both Win 7 and Win 10 systems. Worth noting the conversion was working fine in 3.63 and earlier and when importing a character from that version to 3.71 the imperial units were the ones that remained correct.
December 12, 2021, 02:23:51 PM |
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