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Messages - Saiko Kila

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16
Solved'n'fixed bug reports / Re: 3.50 villagers dying in wells (again)
« on: April 12, 2019, 05:51:56 PM »
Not only villagers die in shallow water. Robbers can too - for example they enter water if PC is on the boat shooting at them. They won't move to the deep water, but are "running" only in shallow water, sometimes even getting out and walking away for a while. They are tiring when in water, and if they tire too much, they drown. The log entry is for example "The Vagabond robber seems to have drowned".

Interestingly, they don't drown (usually?) while lying unconscious on the water, they almost always regain consciousness only to drown a moment later.

17
I use this thread to report something similar which happened recently not to the Player Character, but to one of NPCs of the village.

An adventurer died in the village in its water source, in deep winter. The water source was used by PC to tan a bear skin, which would take a couple of days, so the hole was de-iced a few times. After returning to the village to finish this skin or another (PC was in the village or in its vicinity for several days), the corpse of adventurer of the village and all his stuff was in the hole. The adventurer was all well just the previous day.

His death wasn't observed, but I imagine he went on the thin ice, it broke, and then he was unable to get out somehow. Which is strange, given than the water hole is knee-deep, and than you can go out of it by stepping into any direction (except trees or big rocks maybe). Additionally, it's funny that other villagers don't react to his death or slowly rotting corpse in any way, but that's a separate matter.

18
Not bugs / Re: [not a bug] Skramasaksi in kaumo villages. Bug or not?
« on: April 10, 2019, 08:37:44 AM »
Eh, I know there's no actual trading, but that would be the story-wise explanation :)

I don't want to create another thread with not-bug, so I ask it here, because it is somewhat similar. Last time I created an owl-tribe woman, she started with the kaumo spear in inventory. So member of one tribe started with cultural stuff of other tribe. Is this intended? The starting place was her own tribe, and the starting  scenario was fishing (because I wanted to get nets quickly).

19
General Discussion / Re: Sheep killed a glutton?
« on: April 07, 2019, 11:08:00 AM »
I know you can train combat skills by throwing (except dodge...), but I don't do that (nor do I fire arrows at the ground as training, using Nerps as pin cushions instead, and blunt arrows at captured animals), because it's a self imposed restriction. On the other hand I set and reset a snare trap while waiting for fatigue to go away before skinning an animal (I've never claimed to be consistent...).

You know, throwing javelins to train spear is a perfectly natural way, after all that's what they are for. I use spear, but most of kills is from throws. It's an unnatural method for shield, although thrown shields are both deadly and relatively safe for skin: so in the game you can utilise shields by dropping a stack of them in the place, and picking up and throwing at attackers (for example coming robbers), or keeps some in inventory and pursue prey and pickup the ones thrown.

I don't use training with arrows much because arrows are expensive in the first stage of the game, and later Bow skill is trained just by using very quickly in my opinion. Additionally, many of the wounded adventurers offer to teach bow. In current char I used dry training only to check if it still works.

By the way, blunt arrows can cause bleeding damage and destroy skin, this is just less probable than other arrows (this is taken directly from HarnMaster). I smashed many small animals to pieces with blunt arrows (they are very heavy, which may be taken into account), and damaged others, so don't use them anymore. Recently a single shot from a point (standard) arrows killed a pine-marten so nicely, I was able to make a superiors skin! It has never happened with blunt arrow.

I don't train against wolves and bears because they're simply too dangerous. I assume it would be possible to use Njerps if you checked that they didn't have too dangerous weapons beforehand, though.

Yes, they are dangerous (for training, because with dogs it's very easy to bring them down). Recently I was training dodge/shield on a captured wolf, and it managed to cause me four nasty eye and face injuries, they seem to target head. That's the problem with wolves and bears, and one need to take it into account - but thanks to it I managed to train Physician some more.

But I've found an ideal animal for trap training - a lynx. It tires very quickly, which means after some initial shots it almost never hits. I force them to attack me by throwing flowers (the same with snake, except snake is not trapped). I had two lynxes in two weeks, and was able to train three days with both of them, gaining 7+9 points in dodge and 6+7 points in shield, before their Sudden Death Syndrome hit. They gave me only a single eye injury (for some reason spectacle helm doesn't protect eyes unlike in HarnMaster). My guy has currently 87 Dodge and 89 Shield, and I won't need many more animals to max the skills.

Snakes are rare to find, and although preferred, now I have a more reliable method, thanks to lynxes.

I tried it with elks and domesticated animals, even by releasing an elk from the trap, but when cornered and no place to run, it just stands there. I know they can attack, they just don't do it to me for some reason. I would try swine (wild boars and sows), because they are naturally very aggressive, but they are so rare, and don't get into traps, that it is almost impossible.

On a side note, training with lynxes cost me a dog, which was the first dog I bought, so it had sentimental value. When incensed, the dogs tied to a tree were so aggressive, than one dog attacked my own reindeer (they do it sometimes, I don't know why). Apparently the reindeer did something to the dog, because after zooming out the dog was unleashed and dropped dead, along with it items. What's strange that it appeared on a lake tile, next to the tile I was zooming out. Which is normally impossible, because you cannot zoom out on a lake tile, nor walk into it in summer. According to the log the dog ran away (you hear something running away in the south-east), and then it died, still leashed. May be a bug. Anyway, I don't take dogs to my training sessions with trapped animals anymore.

I don't expect a released elk to be more or less prone to attack than one you've chased to exhaustion: most of the time will be spent trying to get away. but if you build a fence around the trap so the only way out is through you, once you release it it will probably attack reasonably often.

I should have built an enclosure with the released elk, animals and trees for blocking are less predictable, but I think it is too much work, after I found that lynxes are so reliable.


Now, in an addendum to the original topic about glutton - recently I had a first visit of a predator to my animal pen (it's fifth year's summer), and heard it behind the cave wall. When I came there I've found a fallen and injured sheep inside, and a fatigued glutton on top of the fence, next to the sheep. I jumped in, the glutton ran into the cave. I picked only a bunch of javelins when coming, so waited, and when the glutton came near entrance threw a jav, and then four others, remaining with only one, which I used to hit the glutton now and then, when it was returning (my bovines, sheep and me were blocking the entrance, but glutton could walk on top of fallen sheep, while I couldn't). Once it was unconscious I started bashing it in the head with javelin. What a stamina this guy had! Despite being unconscious, and me having guaranteed hit, which usually is mortal with animals this size, I had to hit him 16 times.

EDIT: The sheep recovered, it was standing the next day. This means that sheep can occasionally stand against the glutton, at least long enough to inconvenience them.

20
Without knowing, I suspect the corruption is localized to that stack of items. It doesn't seem like your items are particularly important, while in my case it was my entire set of provisions for the journey that was destryoed.

The items were not important at all, I don't think that at certain stage in game there are very important items (because there are backups stashed somewhere), so I was only concerned with stability of the whole save. When away from home this may be a problem. Though my char has always a fish rod, and then a cow, which means he can travel without food - so the problem would be lack of "money", if that was the purpose of items, not survival.

21
Containers too? I'll keep looking for strange containers, maybe they are default state when something is corrupted.


I looked at the mysterious "8" objects, before they changed into baskets, and their sprites look like broadswords (i.e. swords with red handle). As if there were several broadswords lying on the map, but glued to the forest. I'll admit than when I've found them first, I thought about reverting a save, because it looked like a corruption, but then decided that too I would have to go in time too far, maybe even over a year (bandits were killed in April of 3rd year, and the full transformation occurred in 4th year).

22
General Discussion / Re: I swear by shutters!
« on: April 04, 2019, 09:35:28 AM »
You have much luck to get robbers on your home turf. Never happened to me, though I had robbers in the same region. There are never robbers when you need them. Recently I had a robber quest, and couldn't find any during a month...

I highly doubt they would take items when you are not home, unless you are present in nearby tiles (like to two tiles away), when they are simulated more thoroughly. But since it never happened to me I cannot be sure.

23
General Discussion / Re: Sheep killed a glutton?
« on: April 04, 2019, 09:31:27 AM »
The technique I use against reindeer and elk is to chase it around until it's exhausted, and then walk around to stand in front of it until it attacks, but it's a fair bit of work do do it. The ideal is to manage to herd it into a pocket in between trees where the only way out is through the player: that can give a lot of training. It's also possible to order a dog to stay to block an exit, but the bugger moves away anyway after a while.


Hm, I use snakes for something like this. They are excellent for dodge training, because when breathless they never hit. However, reindeers and the like are less than ideal to me for two reasons: it's much harder to make them attack (despite their higher health) even if cornered, because they are naturally less aggressive, and it's harder to corner them, because they are way too speedy and regain stamina faster than in older versions. And my character is quite quick, too. There is a way to make elk breathless fast, it has to be crippled by shooting, but they don't like attacking.

There is also lynx, which is easy to corner and make breathless (much easier than elk from my experience, even without spell), and also fairly aggressive. But lynxes tend to be dangerous (hit) even when breathless.

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That kind of training gets really tedious when the skill level gets high, though, and I tend to give up after about 600 attacks (at which time the character is hungry).

I've found that just throwing a bunch of shields a single tile (I usually have a stack of 25 shields for this) repeatedly can train me faster than animals after some level, and before certain level, especially when killing time waiting for some skin to tan. It's just very boring.

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Attacks to aggravate the animal is counter productive in the sense that it tends to fall unconscious. Also note that these attacks are *not* aggro attacks, so dogs don't react to it.
Of course, when performing that kind of training top level protection is needed for the occasional attack that hits.

I meant attacking when animals is trapped. It won't attack otherwise, and a single punch is enough usually - though only for correct species (like bears, which are ma favourite for training). If you attack an animal, and it doesn't respond, dogs don't respond too, but once the animal is aggravated (red lines shown), the dogs will be also aggressive, so to prevent them from attacking the animal I just tie them to a tree nearby.

Generally in recent version I find that animals encountered - be it wolves, bears or other dangerous carnivores - rarely attack. Heck, even Njerp usually flee. That's why I don't see wolves or bear as nearly as dangerous as robbers. If I encounter them, I can choose to run away in 99% of cases (well, I do it often with robbers too if I'm not ready, but animals go away from me, making it easier). Sometimes even zoom out when they are very close, for some reason.

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Also note that trapped animals are more dangerous, ironically, because they typically aren't exhausted, and thus don't suffer from huge fatigue penalties.

Trapped animals tire quite quickly, though, even if all you do is block with a shield. Unfortunately, as I said in earlier post, they don't last more than few days, even when not injured further. This gave me idea - next time I catch an elk (because I rarely catch reindeers) I will deconstruct the trap, after the animal is breathless. Maybe then it will be willing to attack me.

Armour is wonky. I have much armour, many levels (36-37 items equipped) and sometimes it seems to be just bypassed. Recently I trained with a bear, and it gave me injury in a layer with many levels of protection, without damaging armour much, if at all.

24
This was quite funny, and happened only once, but maybe someone seen it.

After killing two robbers I left them on the zoom-out map, because they were too heavy to bring home (which I often do, to get bones as a keepsake). I returned after some time, but instead of corpses there was a mysterious object named just "8", which was impossible to pick up. Its name was shown when entering the tile. After some more time (months) I returned there, and this time there were 8 boxes of weed seed! I suppose the "8" was these seeds in process of being converted from bodies to boxes. Or maybe it was bones. Anyway, these boxes were pickable (they were weighing like 128 lbs) so I took them. But why was that?

25
Suggestions / Re: But that villager died
« on: April 01, 2019, 07:57:00 PM »
Shamans should be able to ask the spirits. The spirits apparently know what's going in the forest. You could summon them every day if you want so they doesn't seem to be too busy anyway. And if there is no shaman in the village, there could be a quest to find another shaman, perform a ritual, and get some token which would serve as a proof than the player character is not guilty.

There already is quest to find out one kind of criminal (bird thief), so it wouldn't be out of character.

26
Not bugs / Re: Skramasaksi in kaumo villages. Bug or not?
« on: April 01, 2019, 07:51:05 PM »
The rare Kaumo spear? Yeah, With my PC, I've gone through every Kaumo village and found but one spear! As for finding items within the 'wrong' culture, I just assume they traded for it at some time. How else would they have the various Masterwork items?

Probably they have traded it, but I have found only 6 skramasaski total in five years (two in Kaumo, four in Sartola), so there's is a question who has sold it to them? Because the supposed producers have it mostly out of stock...

For comparison, northern bows are extremely frequent in Kuikka villages (and other northern, but Kuikka have sometimes even 7 northbows in a single kota, and I expect to find one masterwork quality every three villages on average). And yet, no southerners seem to have it - ever. So the trade seems to be wonky. OR the villagers are filthy bandits in disguise, and they killed some adventurer and brought his stuff home. That would explain my encounters with kaumo robbers (which are more frequent than in other cultures).

As for kaumo spear, I haven't see it at all on the ground. But some villagers have it in inventory, and some of these want to sell it. They have only standard quality, though, so given how unhandy it is it's not worth it. I bought one as a souvenir.

Nah, it's not a bug, skramasaksi can appear among Kaumo as well - although rarely, as other "war" weapons. Wealthy village it must have been.  And there are of course little chances of some "non-cultural" items to find their ways to unexpected places as well.

I don't know, Driik seem to be generally more wealthy. Though Kaumo have many, many clothes and armours, they usually are in rough quality so not that valuable.

27
General Discussion / Re: Sheep killed a glutton?
« on: April 01, 2019, 07:28:31 PM »
I used savescumming (save from before entering the village for the first time) to get some alternatives, and found that:
- the wolverine is always present nearby
- it enters the village and pen only if there are sheep, shortly after the player
- it only skims the border if there are pigs, and doesn't enter if there are no animals at all


In one case I was able to ask about animals, got a ram and sheep offered, went to see how many animals were there and found all two of them dead, with wolverine injured inside pen (four injuries). It quickly hopped over the fence and ran away.

So it seems that the sheep can injure wolverine, but usually are victim to it. This first time the sheep was just very lucky.

I've had a dog killed by a wild reindeer, and it's possible to get hurt as well as to get dodge and/or shield training by getting reindeer and elks to attack (since there are no wild sheep I haven't tried that training method with sheep).

You know, I tried it many times, but it is very hard to make elk enter the aggressive move. I sometimes throw several items at it (because it seems to be less lethal than hitting it) and in like 99% it loses consciousness or just die before it attacks me. In my current character, who is in his 5th year, only one elk attacked. But yeah, with other characters I had attacks, and also lost a dog once.

Now I train shield with bear, without attacking it at all (except a single throw for aggro) when it's trapped. But even a bear dies suddenly during training in the third our fourth day.

28
General Discussion / Driik fortification works against them.
« on: March 30, 2019, 08:43:00 PM »
Driik fortification works against them.

I rarely meet Njerp attacking other villages than Driik, which may be intentional, because they are supposed to be rich jerks. Maybe that's why some Driik villages are fortified, or doubled. But the fortifications are what makes them actually more susceptible, to death as I experienced many times. A note: I enter the villages mostly from west, so end on the wall opposite the entrance. This allows me to either step down on the outside, or inside. Often there are people generated outside the western wall, and Njerps too, and when I step outside I can see citizens fighting with Njerps, or when inside I can see citizens trying to fight - but unable, thanks to firtifications.

First example:
I stepped inside, and after a few turns I noticed aggravated citizens running in my direction with weapons. I thought that they want to kill me for some reasons, but they were coming to the wall and wandering along it. As it turned out, the single citizen outside was in that time slaughtered by a Njerp, because stupid Driik never thought about watchtowers. I rushed outside, but it was clearly too late, with the big distance to cover. I caught the Njerp, who stole weapons of the hunter he killed in the meantime, and ended him.

Second example:
I waited a few turns (learning from previous instances), and heard fight, so stepped outside. There was a Njerp trying to slaughter a kid in the southern section of the wall. When I ran alongside, I noticed a body of other kid in the grass, apparently disposed of earlier. Since I wanted to be a big hero, but was too far to be in melee range before it's too late, I shot a few arrows, which managed to inconvenience the Njerp. He tripped, lost his sword, and the kid started to kick him in the head. Which ultimately proved fatal for the Njerp. Now when I enter the village every time the killer kid (which recovered) is present outside the wall, just like the first time, and lingers near belongings of the first, killed kid.

Now these example show typical encounters of Njerps and fortified village: Njerp attack someone (sometimes more than one person), this one fights, but ultimately falls. The rest of the village "tries" to help by banging their head against the wall. I don't know, but if I made a defensive structure, I would want to help me in defence, and not hinder it. In all of these cases there would be no dead victims, because the Zerg rush of villagers (who are plentiful in fortified villages) would quickly overwhelm the Njerp.

What would be the way to improve this, I wonder?

29
Not bugs / [not a bug] Skramasaksi in kaumo villages. Bug or not?
« on: March 30, 2019, 08:07:21 PM »
I'm not sure if it is a bug, but it sure is strange. I've found two skramasaksi in two kaumo villages. One of them was even of fine quality, which is only the second fine skramasaksi this character found. But the first time it was in the orange people area (Sartola), just like expected. Now maybe it is not a bug, and players are expected to find out-of-place artefacts like that, but it is also possible there is a problem with loot tables, so I wanted to signal it. Also I couldn't find any kaumo spear, except these carried by woodsmen/huntsmen/adventurers, but this may be because it's supposed to be rare or something.

30
General Discussion / Sheep killed a glutton?
« on: March 30, 2019, 07:56:38 PM »
Recently I've found a new mini-village of Kaumo, and noticed they have a pen with two sheep. Inside the pen was also a small glutton carcass. One of the sheep had seven wounds (all of them shallow tears) and was limping. I have examined all villagers I could find, and none of them had a weapon ready, meant they didn't fight recently, and the fight was probably instantly simulated when entering the village.

I've encountered many villages with peasants enclosed in pens, but that would be the first time with wild animal inside. I wonder how a sheep could kill a glutton. Admittedly, a sheep is about twice the size, but still, sheep are the most cowardly domestic animals in the game.

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