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Messages - LasseFin

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Suggestions / Looting unconcious people
« on: March 03, 2019, 09:45:41 PM »
It should be possible to loot people who are unconscious. I want to be able knock people out with a head kick (not necessarily kill them) then take all their stuff.

However, looting things from unconscious people shouldn't be instantaneous. It should take time to loot each item on the victim's body so that the victim may wake up while looting is ongoing so it's not too overpowered.

Suggestions / Everyone is a grandmaster
« on: October 29, 2018, 08:01:05 AM »
This is a minor suggestion. Right now if you ask for random people's weapon skills, you'd notice that basically every single adventurer/woodsman/hunter/foreign trader is a grandmaster in their weapon skill. It doesn't make the achievement of getting a grandmaster/master skill as satisfying.

Perhaps those roles should float around expert level, and another role called the "master" be introduced into the game who have master/grandmaster skills. You'd be able to pay them to train you in certain weapons. I think it would add an interesting side to the game.

It isn't too difficult to mod your own spears, bows & arrows if you would like to make them the way you want them. But this would only affect the ones you use unless you gave them to companions or dropped them for your enemies to pick up.

I'm of the opinion that it's a toss-up because the much higher velocity of an arrow gives it deeper penetration (generally speaking, not always). Kinetic energy increases with the square of velocity, so when the velocity gets high it will overtake the mass and give greater overall energy. No, I'm not going to get into any calculations to prove anything because I don't have a problem with this in the game. Just food for thought.

While I agree with the conclusion that you arrived at the end which is that they both would be quite lethal and the difference isn't going to be big, I have to stress again that the idea the kinetic energy is representative of something's ability to damage is a very widespread misconception. The idea the damage is somehow proportional to the square of the velocity and linearly with mass doesn't really hold much candle. The purpose of it is to calculate work/energy-transfer between two objects in a purely mathematical way, and it's not for the purpose of calculating the amount of damage a projectile does.

If we assume that by damage, we mean how lethal/incapacitating a projectile is, let's take make an edge case. Imagine an extremely thin needle, so thin you can barely see it that weighs only 0.01 gram, but it is moving extraordinarily fast, a zipping 30000 m/s. It would have a kinetic energy of 4500 joules, which would be significantly above any arrow or javelin or even most bullets (9mm is about 500 joules, 5.56 from a M16 is about 2000 joules.) However, in reality, this 4500 joules super thin needle actually would do almost no damage to a human's body because it's way too thin and way too fast to do anything more than make a teeny tiny hole in the victim's body. Never mind a 9mm or 5.56, it wouldn't even do close to as much damage as an arrow with 30 joules energy which only has 1/150 of the needle's energy.

If we take another edge case, a massive 5000 kg wooden block moving at 0.1 m/s, again, you have a kinetic energy of 2500 joules, but it's moving so slowly it would just push the victim very very slowly, doing absolutely no damage.

The point is, again, to somehow quantify damage of a projectile, you have to get into deformation mechanics, injury biomechanics and a variety of very very complicated physics and medical subjects. The idea that kinetic energy is anything more than an EXTREMELY rough estimation is very doubtful.

But yes, the conclusion I arrive at is same as yours, I don't see any reason to believe why a javelin would be more lethal than an arrow. As long as you perforate a major organ with a large enough hole so that it doesn't function anymore the victim will be incapacitated/die.

We actually don't even know how bow/arrow damage works. Because the bow itself also has a damage rating. For example, if you use hunting bow (7 point damage) to shoot arrow (8 point damage), is it 7+8 point damage, or the average like (7+8)/2, or does the arrow only define damage aspect like point/blunt/edge? What if you use shortbow (6 point damage) with blunt arrow (6 blunt damage?) What do you end up with in the end?   :o

Some clarification would be nice.

You can drown in knee deep water if your fatigue is too high and ice breaks


   Weapons have the following new properties:
        * Impact area

          This refers to size of weapon head/tip/blade that actually touches the target
          upon impact.

        * Strike velocity

          Certain strikes with certain weapons get a velocity boost increasing the force of
          impact they can cause. Swords, clubs with lengthy shafts (e.g. warhammers and maces)
          and axes can be all considered high velocity weapons.

        * Wear/break/fracture levels

          Amount of force needed to wear/break/fracture a weapon.
        These all come into play when weapon damage checks are done. The factors are so far
        hidden but you'll soon learn what breaks what and how easily. Most of the weapon
        breakage stuff should be quite obvious as the system tries to come close to sort of a
        realistic weapon damage behaviour.

        Few examples:

        Thrust (point) with a sword concentrates the force on much smaller area than a
        swing (edge). But on the other hand, sword strike has the highest velocity when it's
        used in a slashing movement.

        There is not much difference in impact area if you thrust with a large knife or a spear.
        But spear is heavier and can be thrusted with more velocity and this results in much
        more force being delivered with a spear thrust.

        Maces and warhammers are excellent choices for breaking shields. They have lots of mass
        and a proper swing with them makes the head strike with high velocity. Especially the
        warhammer concentrates lots of force and mass on small impact area.

        All in all, there's now lots of new tactics, factors and weapon usage to consider when
        going to battle. Effective dodging saves weapons, but if your enemy effectively keeps
        blocking your fierce sword strikes it may leave you with damaged weapon. Weapon breakage
        system is also a big balancing addition, and kind of justifies reasonable hoarding of
        metal weapons. Now you can't expect to keep on using your favourite sword again and
        again without possibly wearing it out someday.

Yeah, not sure if it applies to both body damage or only weapon on weapon damage. We'd have to ask Sami to confirm.

Yes, this game does have a lot of hidden mechanics that's not really documented anywhere.

Obvious! Spear = wider cutting area + bigger weight = more damage!
Again, I remember reading somewhere that the game ALREADY does this.

No, I'm telling you that if I remember correctly, the game takes weapon weight into consideration when calculating, rather than just using 6/8 damage, the actual damage is a function of the weight AND the damage numbers.
And the idea that simple kinetic energy/momentum calculation is equivalent to how damaging a weapon is in real life physics is dubious anyway. It's a massive simplification of a much deeper subject. There's much more at play in there, and to calculate actual damage interaction between two things you'd have to delve deep into deformation mechanics, taking into consideration both object's material toughness/hardness, yield strength etc.

They're not. I am almost certain combat calculations take into consideration the weight and the damage number is only one aspect of how much actual damage it does.

Suggestions / Re: Anachronistic swords
« on: October 06, 2017, 11:04:49 PM »
It seems that every so often, a topic appears about anachronistic elements in URW.  To my mind, the creators have already addressed this issue adequately.  They have stated that URW is a fantasy game, and takes place in a fantasy world which is close to 9th-11th century Finland, but not identical.  I think this makes sense.  After all, the game already has spells and mystical spirits.  Surely longer and heavier swords does not stretch the imagination any further?

For the record, I was also fine with the "anachronistic" armor choices, but I don't mind them being gone, either.

Sami has made efforts to remove all the anachronistic armors, like ring and plate armor. He made efforts to change the battleaxe from the double headed fantasy axe to something akin to the Dane Axe. It's clear that his design vision, on equipment at least, is meant to be grounded in reality. With mostly everything in place, the sword category stand out like a sore thumb and seems to be the inconsistency in the game. It just feels very out of place now that everything else has been corrected.

I wouldn't have made this suggestion if ring armor and plate armor and double headed axes still existed in this game. This suggestion was simply made to maintain that consistency.

Suggestions / Re: Anachronistic swords
« on: October 06, 2017, 03:52:39 AM »
10-12 lbs seems a bit too heavy for a weapon that's already so front heavy. 6-8 pounds seems to be how much historical polearms weighed.

Suggestions / Anachronistic swords
« on: October 06, 2017, 03:21:22 AM »
The armors right now have been rectified and now all armors seem to be historically accurate. But the swords are still very historically inaccurate!

Considering that the game takes place roughly in the 9th-11th century, the bastard sword (40-48 inches) is unlikely to exist. It's minorly plausible that some existed, but there doesn't seem to be any historical examples. Maybe this could be kept in the game and renamed to war sword and made much rarer. Broadswords should be renamed to simply sword.

The battlesword which weighs 8 lbs and is 48-60 inches in length would CERTAINLY not exist in this period. Weapons like these were used in the 16th century, which means they are even more anachronistic than plate armor.

But since giant swords are kind of cool, with its removal we should add some other cool weapon to fill the void. One plausible weapon is the glaive/halberd which some Viking sagas make reference to. Since the URW has contact to eastern peoples who historically DID use glaives, we could add this weapon. It would be a weapon of spear category that has very high attack bonus, 5 like Kaumolais spear since they're very long, but low defense bonus since they're front heavy. They would have high edge damage, medium high point damage. Njerpez should be glaive lovers since they come from the east.

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