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Re: [3.82] Community Mod BAC: Smith, Cooking, Survival, Carpentry, Sewing and
Remember the BAC was last updated to 3.82. The 3.83 fix is discussed above. 3.84 will break it more. I use a personal rule that if i'm not playing a game I'm not modding it. Currently I'm not. The item creation list of 3.83 and 3.84 was already covered by BAC and really by precussor mods going back years. The shift to pausable item creation is overall a good thing but what I would actually do isn't changing... so not really an incentive to return to play. BAC is a community mod with a take over clause thus if someone wants to do an update if the caretaker (often but not always me) isn't around then someone can. So if someone wants to take on 3.84 updates they can and should start a new thread for it. Things large mods like BAC really need are one of these solutions: A= A new keyboard menu for "modded crafting" where it opens a craft menu that the dev >NEVER< puts vanilla items into B= Tiered menus where you can swap around the 26ish letters so load between vanilla and mods C= Co-ordinating the existing mods for submenus like what was broken when "hafting" H collided with the H of a mod. Without one of those each update will further break large mods like BAC and I don't really plan on chasing updates on a game I'm not currently playing. April 29, 2024, 07:50:02 PM |
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Make Menu only for Modded items = saving BAC and other large mods
Mod collision continues to happen with the 3.83 and 3.84 updates with it going to continue to cause conflicts with large mods like the BAC If you could give us a single key for a craft menu only for modded items it would help greatly. The large BAC mod could be fired up that way with its existing ways of making axes, bows and so on that date back to Bouddia and Rain. The existing craft menu could remain the same and modders could add to it like now, though knowing that future updates may cause collisons. Collisions as discussed before happen when updates add items to menus that cause overflow when the total of (new vanilla plus mod items) exceeds the allowed amounts and in the case of the Hafted menu a letter (in this case "H") already being used by a mod. There are 3 solutions. = Tiered menu where you open crafting then choose a master menu A, B, C etc but this hasn't been implemented as a heavy coding change = Co-ordinating the top menu of letters with a large mode like BAC which has already puzzled out things but clearly with "H" for a couple of hafting items isn't of interest = Give modders a one letter for a seperate modders craft menu. This seems plausible and with limited coding needs. Simply put instead of the "M" for make another letter is u sed to open another craft menu. A craft menu that the dev >NEVER< puts vanilla items into. Instead the large modders can use this as a safe space to figure out on our own large collections such as BAC. Frankly the ongoing additions of a few items like hand axes and bow making has been modded since long before BAC dating to Bouddia and Rain years ago. I agree that added pausable crafting is a good thing and in time Saami should integrate many of the crafts into vanilla. What is killing the game of those using large mods, and many do use BAC, is the mod collision along the way. The "modder craft menu" is a more specific lower coding requirement that would support with the large mods. Unreal has long had a commitment and encouragement to modding, such as the initial webpage hosting. Its been years since the first days. You have the success of large mods. For them to function they need to avoid mod collison. A single separate menu would work for this. April 29, 2024, 09:00:53 PM |
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Re: Make Menu only for Modded items = saving BAC and other large mods
No offense was intended. This was about the history of modding which you always made an available part of Unreal World. Many suggestions and possible updates exist for any game. When an update is developed and others not there will always be some different views on which one to do next or how it was done. >>> On the ancestral mods... To phrase differently players making axes, bows, lamellar armor was added by mods for years. Rain's ironworking is an example. Since Rain wrote that mod various game updates have made his code not work or miss key changes like the introduction of cord lengths. Keeping Rain's going has been part of the BAC by updating those recipes to the current mod language. As an example when the blacksmithing update was added the vanilla game now allowed ordering axes form villages. Vanilla players wanting to a specific axe could now get one likely through more hunting & hidework to get the value. Modded players were already making their own choice of axe, exploring the wilderness for sources of iron, crafting tools for getting ore, making charcoal and so on. I am overall pleased to see more aspects being added to Unreal world and hope to one day see a vanilla player blacksmithing their own axe far away from a village. >>> On the number of users For the amount of community interest the BAC 3.82 version shows 524 downloads in post #1 of :https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=7176.0 Each time the game went through major updates so did BAC with a new thread to the new game version. So the total number of downloads is hard to know. Many BAC users would have downloaded the next version so the figure above is can be viewed as the active users. >>> BAC was sized to have lots yet keeping a couple letters free specifically to allow any additions a particular player might want. The mod community also has a few career mods like bee keeping which some might want and others not. Some mods introduce being able to train your combat skills through various token systems. While likely of interest to many players it takes a few menu letters to achieve this so wasn't in the BAC. It could potentially be chosen by a player from the free spaces left by the BAC. >>> A suggestion was to add separate craft menu for mods to use. Right? Let's make sure I understand the proposed suggestion correctly and then brainstorm as necessary. Correct. That is the current request. Modders over the year had requested make menu tiers, that is you open make and open a letter than another letter then the 25 recipes for 15,625 possible craft items. Memory recalls an impression on the complexity being an issue on implementing. The current make menu has ~25x25 = 625 possible entries. By combining many of the popular mods (Rain etc) yes BAC is running close to that. Certain things have been done to save on space like "iron nails" and "iron rivets" being one recipe as the production is very similiar. There are some mod swap, letter swap methods that are out there as mentioned by Galgana though I've personally never used them. The modder's crafting single letter was put forward as a lower coding request. It would mean 625 that a modder can use without the "mod collision" that happens when new features are added to vanilla. "Mod collision" happens when the vanilla game adds crafting to what the modding already had there is some in game disruptions and confusion. An example is the hafting vs BAC's existing mod code. Yes eventually the BAC would be adapted to the new vanilla standard. Until then here are some things that happen: - BAC included making an axe thus has both an "axe head" and "axe haft" - BAC "axe heads" don't work with the new vanilla axe fixing. Players get confused. - BAC "axe haft" doesnt work with new vanilla axe haft so can't fix a broken axe. Players get confused. - BAC included a chance of a bad axe mounting and recovering a BAC "axe head" If the vanilla items and mod items are separate then for the above example what is a "BAC axe head" is kept clearly from "Vanilla axe head" and so on. Further some item creations involve many steps. BAC has "iron nails" that are double used as rivets do save on menu space. Should at some point Saami add nails or rivets the vanilla/mod make split would avoid confusion between whose rivets are needed in recipes. This is intended as a support not a reducing of the vanilla updates. In time the mods could update assuming the modder is still around in the community. As another example. [Bowyer] has been added a skill. I actually think that is great. At the time of the last BAC update there was no such skill so the recipes for bow making it has couldn't use it. In time the mod could be changed over to it. I also wouldn't be surprised if there a players confused on which bow string to use as some will be vanilla bow strings and some BAC bow strings. May 05, 2024, 11:20:04 PM |
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Re: Make Menu only for Modded items = saving BAC and other large mods
The third is what is in this thread. 3. Provide a separate make menu for modders from the vanilla. What then happens is that when there is an update and the resulting incompatible is the one thing the mod community needs most: Time. It also lets a mod user decide when to take in a mod update, since they are all manual installs. Thus they can finish a many step build process rather than finding out their mid process resources or tools are useless. >>> Example: A player in the middle of long game in the middle of a long build cycle, like lamellar armor, can still access for that time the mod's build steps while other players can start the vanilla process. In the case of lamellar armor various steps including the following recipes: ore scoop, roasted ore, charcoal, smelter, smelted ore, anvil, hammer, ingot, then drill and cords If any player blacksmithing is started some or all of those will get duplicated in the vanilla. Given the many build steps a player could be anywhere along that process. >>>> On what happens to the BAC when I go it was already built in that after 30 days of inactivity a new caretaker may take it over with the same terms. Not only was that planned for there was already a handoff once already to Rudy. I'm currently willing to hand off again at the moment too. The BAC though heavily my work is thought of a community owned item. Much of the work comes from the shoulders of people like Rain, Endive and Bouddia. While their exact recipes had to be changed the principles and concepts they set up are in the DNA of the mod. May 07, 2024, 12:14:47 AM |
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