Messages

61

Gameplay questions / Re: Crappy tools can't do much

« on: August 18, 2019, 12:25:55 AM »

You can make a shelter with any axe, as building is one of the few activities that can be paused and resumed. However, if you're too tired when you start, you'll collapse, sleep, wake up, too tired to continue building the shelter (or at least stopping immediately, with no visible progress), ... regardless of skill and tool quality.
If your character ends up in that situation the best thing you can do is to try to make a fire instead (although you may well die during your failed attempts to light it, of course) and hope the rain stops eventually so you can get some sleep and then resume the shelter building.

Wasn't there an issue where if you couldn't complete something in 2 goes, your second round of progress would be lost?

62

Gameplay questions / Re: Crappy tools can't do much

« on: August 15, 2019, 03:46:11 PM »

May not be a great idea, but you could trade one of your nets for a handaxe.  You might want to get something extra to go along with that handaxe though, like 4 arrows , a fur hood to cut into cord, or a small knife if you also don't have a proper knife.  You may have a hard time getting that net back before it cycles out though, since it will still be hard to produce items of high value, but a handaxe and a proper knife makes survival far more doable than it would be otherwise.

Alternatively, if you must live with a stone axe and a stone knife, you can try working with tree's that have already fallen down.  The ground sometimes has tree trunks of both regular and slender variety, that you can potentially craft things from.  Anything that takes longer than 12 hours will be rejected outright, but sometimes you can keep repeating the same task over and over again until your character starts working on it.  This can be a way to brute force the use of a stone axe if need be to do wood work.  You probably can't build any buildings with the stone axe however.

63

Gameplay questions / Re: Training Trapping Skill

« on: August 14, 2019, 02:51:33 AM »

Kick and reset the spiked deadfall trap at higher skill (65% or so), kick, pickup and set loop snares before that.

64

Suggestions / Re: Improved trading system

« on: August 10, 2019, 03:25:48 AM »

You can already select multiple items at once to offer before presenting it.  You don't get to see the reaction until after you present that offer, however.  Give a good reason why any user interface should allow you to see the reaction before you make your actual offer.  Is it time travel?  Mind reading powers?

I wasn't talking about the reaction, I was talking about modifications to the list you want to offer before you actually make that offer.

You can already select multiple items before presenting your offer.  At least I can.  Is it really that hard?

Look, you are playing a computer game here where you are building and modifying lists of items and not every damn keystroke should or even could be interpreted as an actual action of your character in that game's setting, in this particular example certainly not every keystroke should mean you are actually making an offer - adding items to the trade doesn't necessarily mean actually making another offer. You need to be able to make a list, evaluate (yes, that means getting the items value or at least an estimate!) and then make the offer.

*sigh*
Adding more items to the trade window is changing your offer.  Change my mind.

I'll put it this way.  If I have the supply, but I don't particularly like you, I don't have to supply you.  Even if I do supply you, I may do so more begrudgingly increasing the price.  This could happen due to circumstances entirely outside of your control.  For instance, maybe the village elder has interpreted signs of a bad omen and decides that trading is not a good idea right now, or perhaps a child has gone missing and the villagers would rather not trade with you until that child is found.  Or perhaps, maybe there was a raid (failed or otherwise) upon the village you are currently visiting, and the raiders happen to belong to your chosen culture.  While they may recognize that your not there to raid, they may still hold a grudge or resentment that just isn't fair.  I don't see why get woke go broke couldn't be a thing during the iron age of Finland.

These villages would either be temporarily or permanently worse for trade than other villages.

And yet again, you are talking about mood effects, you are making up all sorts of things like "child goes missing", "bad omen", "cultural effects"... Nothing of this has anything to do with supply and demand. Those are just yet more factors that are different you can stack on top of it. I'm sorry but no matter how much you would like to shoehorn "mood effects" into being part of the law of supply and demand, it will never make sense. Your understanding of what "supply and demand" actually means is way too broad.

Your view of what goes into a trade or a transaction is rather myopic.  Supply and demand are important, but are not the end all and be all.  It's like you don't understand the effects of bad timing, poor tact, or grudges and grievances. 

When you are simulating demands that could exist within the game but don't track the metrics due to the extra resources it would take to do so.

In other words, if you want to introduce a fun new mechanic but you don't actually want to do it properly. Yeah, not a fan thank you. This game is actually not that complex, less so than many other games and certainly much less than the real world, so if you wanted to you could actually put a proper supply and demand system in place that tracks all necessary variables. It's mostly a matter of effort but it's not a priority right now...

It's like you think I want to make the entire process determined by a random number, despite my many posts to the contrary.  However, and again, I'm suggesting that some villages may have a want for a certain type of item when possible, a preference if you will.  Maybe they would really like some river trout instead of salmon.  However, if these preferences where put in, they would have to be determined at some point.  Furthermore, it's not like that preference would be permanent.  When this preference is determined (presumably when this villages inventory would be restocked), it would be determined by?

More importantly, however is that while these people are NPC, they aren't supposed to act like NPC's.

That's completely subjective, the specifics of what it even means "to act like NPCs" varies from person to person but the discussion is moot because at the end of the day, no game can ever hope to accomplish this until we have much more advanced AI.

Doesn't mean you make 0 effort to try.  What I have proposed here is something small, called preferences.

Furthermore, the reason you would add a modest random element (something you seem to have missed btw)
(...)
(very small variation, not enough on it's own to potentially generate lots of wealth).
(...)
would be to add an element of uncertainty and challenge.  These changes would also pave the way to playing as a merchant if you wanted to do so.

Uncertainty sure, but there is nothing challenging about dice rolls. You're just at the mercy of random chance. Exactly how is this better than the ability to analyze the current market situation, as much as that is possible in this game, and make a well-founded decision based on that?

Nothing is challenging about dice rolls themselves, it's what they make you do.  If prices are not set in stone and fluctuate, they make those market calculations and decisions harder.  They also force you to shop around if you really want to get the best deals instead of just good enough.  Combined with villages having limited inventory overall, this still makes it easy to get common and decent quality items for less potentially, but for rarer masterwork items, may cause you to consider weather it's worth it to get the masterwork now, or continue shopping around and possibly no longer have access to the masterwork.  This would also apply to any highly sought after item.  Such as say, buying tons of a single item like nets or arrows.

In practice, you got most of these values from playing characters and doing these trades in the game, probably across multiple characters.

Dear Lord, the whole reason I have written this little story is to illustrate that your character would get information like this from his tribe, his parents and teachers, the environment he grew up in because you don't play a wild child or a newborn baby. You are playing someone who is 16 years old, was raised in a Finnish tribe, starts with bonuses to certain skill that he was obviously taught so the idea that he would get information about at least the basics of what certain items are valued is really not too far-fetched.

And that mean's I can't disagree with your presentation of that story, or point out the contrivances of that story.  You put in all that effort after all, how dare I point out what I think is wrong here.

Furthermore, no source is given for how he came to "know" what the value of a hunting knife or woodsman's axe would be worth other than he "heard" it.

He "heard" it. Sure. As in, the woodsmen and hunters of his tribe regularly traded for it, which on several occasions Timo must have witnessed. You know, because Timo was part of the tribe, he was taught things and generally paid attention to things.
Yes, obviously I as the player DO have the information about item values available (because I painstakingly compiled a list of them, since the game just gave me the finger) but that doesn't mean the character couldn't possibly know anything about it. It doesn't matter what the values as they are coded in the game are and why, not for the question of could my character tell or not - MY CHARACTER is not someone who grew up in the late 20th century civilization with computers, the internet, currency etc., HE is a 16 year old Finnish tribesman and contrary to what you believe

Again, merely hearing about the value of something without direct experience is not good enough to know something.  Maybe axes and knives in his tribe are just in short supply?  Moreso, your story is based on the contrivance of a world where the values of items never change.  Your story about Timo misses the fundamental point that I've been trying to make this entire time.  It should not be that to know the value of any item in the game, let along every item.  This is a barter system after all, there really isn't supposed to be a defacto currency that everybody values and trades in.  Also...

Yes, obviously I as the player DO have the information about item values available (because I painstakingly compiled a list of them, since the game just gave me the finger)

Unfortunately, sometimes we make bad decisions due to limited knowledge.  This is a common feature of rouge likes and is a part of the challenge.  Accidentally trading away too much value for something vital is a legitimate part of the challenge, and that's assuming a near perfect trade could have been made in the first place.  Sometimes losing an unfair chunk of value to get something you require is just a part of life in iron age Finland.  I'm assuming in this context that this is what happened, and I could be wrong.  If it is something that has happened that is bothering you, it may be worth making a thread on the subject.

They wouldn't.  That would only be an argument however for that information being obfuscated.  I take it that you wouldn't find it very fun however for every item to have it's weight listed in comparison to rocks and stones instead though.  Skills having listed percentages isn't necessary either, the bar is sufficient to demonstrate how much confidence your character has in his or her skills.  I wouldn't mind either change personally.

So wait, you want to overhaul the whole game now and change the way information is given to us? What about the whole skill penalty thing which you conveniently ignored? Do you actually have a problem with how it this is right now? You wan't to remove information about how our skills are affected by the various penalties? You don't want to give us information about our skill levels any more? Why the hell are you even playing the damn game? What do any of the other players have to say about this?
What if item value displays were already part of the game right now...? Somehow I don't think you would be someone doing any complaining.

That is the least charitable interpretation that I have seen of my words in a very long time.  Here is what you asked:

Now, you tell me which one of those two scenarios (Timo or Floki) makes more sense and why. Please tell me how someone without the internet, without precision scales or even crude scales for that matter, without any kind of measurement instruments at all would have access to this kind of information? And of course in particular, how in light of this and Timo's story earlier the idea of a simple display of trading values is so outrageous? And, seeing as how this seems to fall into your original question, "how would the character know item values", how do you suggest to remedy this obviously absurd flood of information we get? Are you going to uninstall the game because of this, I mean, this is obviously completely ridiculous...
Sorry for the sarcasm, I just can't resist here.

If you think being able to see the percentage points of your skills or the weight of your items to 1 decimal place is too much information than the answer to that question is simple.  You obfuscate that information.  You asked, I answered.

From there, you specifically decided to interpret that as "omg he want's to ruin the game!1!".

And I'm not the only one here, certain parts of your comment I referred to there were very condescending.

I usually respond in kind.

65

Suggestions / Re: Improved trading system

« on: August 09, 2019, 03:27:19 AM »

So, while part of that criticism was directed at you, it was more of a general statement which I see now could have been misunderstood. I still wasn't attacking you personally but if this offended you somehow then I apologize.

I didn't ask you to apologize, nor am I offended.  I want to see you succeed, for I too want to see a better system in place for trading.  I will give you however, that you are being a bit disagreeable right now.

Sure, but does every single modification to the list have to be interpreted as an offer? If you want to buy something expensive for several less expensive items that doesn't make any sense, your intention is to build up a list of items you are offering and then ask them if they agree not in between every single squirrel skin or whatever that you add. The fact that UrW forces you to make an offer after every modification is rooted in one of the big problems with its trading system - the UI simply doesn't have the capability to do it otherwise.

Like I said, also with the other suggestions I have already posted and re-quoted above, when the UI is done properly this isn't even necessary any more because then you can adjust your "items on trade" list at will before making an actual offer so if you overshoot the target you can simply remove an item from the list again. The fact that now, if you overshoot, you have to start over and re-create that last list (except for one or two items...) you used previously is one of the biggest flaws of the current system. It's incredibly tedious and annoying.

You can already select multiple items at once to offer before presenting it.  You don't get to see the reaction until after you present that offer, however.  Give a good reason why any user interface should allow you to see the reaction before you make your actual offer.  Is it time travel?  Mind reading powers?

Sure, but does every single modification to the list have to be interpreted as an offer?

Yes, every time you add more items to the trade you are of course making a counter offer which deserves a reaction.  If you decide you've offered too much and you want to start over again, that too deserves a reaction.  I remember at one point these reactions would progressively get harsher and harsher as well as the villagers are supposed to have patience that would wear thin, but currently this only happens if you accidentally (or deliberately) attempt to leave with an unpaid for item in your inventory and the villagers demand payment.

Really? I mean.... really?! Even considering a potential misunderstanding between us, "moodiness" effects have nothing to do with a supply and demand system...

I'll put it this way.  If I have the supply, but I don't particularly like you, I don't have to supply you.  Even if I do supply you, I may do so more begrudgingly increasing the price.  This could happen due to circumstances entirely outside of your control.  For instance, maybe the village elder has interpreted signs of a bad omen and decides that trading is not a good idea right now, or perhaps a child has gone missing and the villagers would rather not trade with you until that child is found.  Or perhaps, maybe there was a raid (failed or otherwise) upon the village you are currently visiting, and the raiders happen to belong to your chosen culture.  While they may recognize that your not there to raid, they may still hold a grudge or resentment that just isn't fair.  I don't see why get woke go broke couldn't be a thing during the iron age of Finland.

These villages would either be temporarily or permanently worse for trade than other villages.

Furthermore, the random prices from village to village would simulate the demand portion of the supply and demand. Sometimes people just want certain items more than other, even of the same variety.  For example, the villagers in that area might want elk meat more than stag meat, or vice versa.  I don't see how this is contradictory.

Supply and demand is the fundamental law of economics, there is nothing random about it. Why would you try to remove one of the factors and randomize it? In this particular example, if a village is short on food but has a lot of mouths to feed, prices for food go up.

Wrong.  I made no such stipulation that the villagers where starving.  That is what you inserted into the scenario.  Food is a common item to get a hold of and I was laying out how it could be possible that some types of meat may be more desirable than others based on the tastes of the people in the village.  Of course, starving people will pay more for food than non starving people however.  But you missed the point.  Also...

At what point does it make sense to randomize anything? Imagine you are playing in such a game, where the prices of items are governed by dice rolls... you are then of course just completely at the mercy of the dice when it comes to trading, if one price in a village is particularly bad, do you move on to the next and reroll? How often do you do this? Is the price fixed for one village forever or does it eventually reroll, if so with what interval?

When you are simulating demands that could exist within the game but don't track the metrics due to the extra resources it would take to do so.  While items that exist may have an objective value, peoples interpretation of that value is still subjective to some degree.  More importantly, however is that while these people are NPC, they aren't supposed to act like NPC's.  They should be suffering from the same problem that you have at the very least.  They shouldn't act like they know perfectly what something is worth regardless of how good or bad of a trader they really are.  Sometimes they just get it wrong.  Sometimes they think they can get more from you than they really can or should.  Greed can play into this too you know.

Obviously they wont "re-roll" the prices every single time you talk to them again, that would be too easy to exploit.  I would assume instead that the prices would change when the village restocks it's goods for sale as this simulates the hunting of animals, the collection of harvests, other trades happening outside of your view, and the like.

You seem to think too that this randomization would be overly dramatic and would cause you to be able to trade knives for swords or something ridiculous.  That isn't the intent behind fluctuating and random pricing.

Furthermore, the reason you would add a modest random element (something you seem to have missed btw)

(very small variation, not enough on it's own to potentially generate lots of wealth).

would be to add an element of uncertainty and challenge.  These changes would also pave the way to playing as a merchant if you wanted to do so.

Lastly...

Let us consider a young man living in Finland in the early middle ages, some time between 800 and 1000 A.D. - let's call him Timo...
-snip-
He pulls out another item: an arrow, very standard make, a straight, thin piece of wood carved from a branch with some feathers at the back to stabilize flight and a head made of a sharp piece of rock, skillfully tied to the shaft with a cord. Another very common item among the Finnish tribes. He knows that an arrow and a squirrel fur are of the same value, as he has seen them exchanged 1:1 in trades many times when he was young.
-snip-
The next item he examines is his hunting knife...  he knows that a price of about 20 squirrel furs would be fair for such an item. Of course, a particularly high quality version of a knife would command a higher price, 25 or even 30 skins would be fair for those.
-snip-
Another very important tool in his pack was his woodsman's axe, and it was also so popular among his people that he knew its value to be the same as that of a hunting knife, meaning 20 squirrel skins for a decent quality version.
-snip-
A fishing rod is so easy to make that its value is not high at all, in fact one squirrel skin would most likely even get you two fishing rods. This doesn't mean it is useless however, it's just that getting one of these is much easier than even hunting a simple, harmless animal like the squirrel and Timo has often witnessed the people of his village making these without much effort.
-snip-
He remembers, that a single pelt of an Elk, if it wasn't too beat up, was mentioned to be even a little more valuable than a decent hunting knife, or of about equal value than a high quality one - that is to say, around 25 squirrel pelts
-snip-
The foreign traders would be more than willing to give you a high quality piece of jewelry made of a precious metal like silver for it - or perhaps two or three made of bronze. Returning with a lynx kill was always special cause for celebration in his village.

In practice, you got most of these values from playing characters and doing these trades in the game, probably across multiple characters.  Which is a consequence of items having fixed values that are never deviated from.  Essentially this is knowledge that you aren't supposed to have, but due to game mechanics you eventually learn.  This is why items need to have some randomization in what they are valued at.  Because a squirrel hide isn't always worth an arrow, even in iron age Finland.  Might I remind you that Timo's source of the information on squirrel hides being traded for arrows is from Foreigners whom particularly want those hides.  But again however, all prices are static right now.  Timo should not have been able to consistently trade squirrel hides for arrows with potentially everybody he meets.

Furthermore, no source is given for how he came to "know" what the value of a hunting knife or woodsman's axe would be worth other than he "heard" it.

Timo's also wrong about the fishing rod.  You can't make it vanilla.  You have to mod in the recipe into the game to do this.  Furthermore, no reason beyond the supposed ease of it's creation is actually given for why the fishing rod is so "inexpensive" that I'm wondering if you actually dumped the games raws to get this information.  While it is true that the fishing rod is half the price of a squirrel hide, they can be used to pull in lots of fish (like pike, perch, and roach at all once) by even inexperienced fishermen suggesting that more goes into the fishing rods construction than is known here.  Fishing rods probably take more time, skill, and materials to create than it's current price should even suggest.

Even as presented, this would be a backstory that would tie into a potential bartering skill, and possible game start as a wandering merchant.  You have to give that story a second pass though at least.

Now it's your turn:
-snip-
Please tell me how someone without the internet, without precision scales or even crude scales for that matter, without any kind of measurement instruments at all would have access to this kind of information?

They wouldn't.  That would only be an argument however for that information being obfuscated.  I take it that you wouldn't find it very fun however for every item to have it's weight listed in comparison to rocks and stones instead though.  Skills having listed percentages isn't necessary either, the bar is sufficient to demonstrate how much confidence your character has in his or her skills.  I wouldn't mind either change personally.

66

Suggestions / Re: Improved trading system

« on: August 08, 2019, 04:58:59 AM »

You speak partly of a supply/demand system - it's been mentioned before, I agree it would be great but only as the icing on the cake, the cake being a good basis for the trading system. A foundation that is actually properly usable and not so tedious. But also you mention "semi-randomized" prices? Based on "mood"? Absolutely not, please. It makes zero sense for item values to be random and also contradicts the supply/demand idea you yourself mentioned in the very same sentence. What would make sense, in addition to supply/demand, would maybe be a factoring in of bartering skills of *both* involved parties. So if the NPCs skill sucks, you could take advantage of him by shifting prices in your favor and vice versa.

First, the mood of the villagers overall (moreso tied to reputation but if you read the responses it is represented as mood) already affects not only their willingness to trade with out outright, but a bad mood will increase the villagers valuation of their goods vrs your own, while a good mood makes them more generous (they value their goods less than yours slightly).  If you really thing traders being moody contradicts a supply and demand system then you haven't thought about it much.  They still need or want something, but they don't necessarily want to source it from someone who steals, vandalizes things, or is generally unpleasant to be around.

Furthermore, the random prices from village to village would simulate the demand portion of the supply and demand.  Sometimes people just want certain items more than other, even of the same variety.  For example, the villagers in that area might want elk meat more than stag meat, or vice versa.  I don't see how this is contradictory.

While you may be discussing a trade with individual people, you are still trading with the group.  I'm sure the village elder, or somebody else who's worldly and experienced might have something to say about you trying to trade a few handmade clubs for a spear for instance.

Basically, the higher your bartering skill, the more likely the value of an item is to be known to you, and even if you don't know the value of the item, you get a ballpark estimate instead.

Then add to this, a limited number of chances (which you get more of as your bartering skill increases) to actually get a trade for an item to go though and you would eliminate more of the issue.  Probably not in the way that you would like though.

Sounds good, but again I think people misunderstand my point. Things like this are a good bonus on top of a simple but well fleshed out system that is actually enjoyable to use. The point of my OP was that this is not the case at all - as it is right now, trading is slow, tedious, inaccessible and the opposite of fun to use. It is the single biggest chore in the game and it won't be fixed by things like this. You cannot fix an open fracture by putting a band-aid on it.

*sigh*

Well I'm sorry that my suggestion didn't add the magic bullet you seemed to be looking for, but sustainable changes happen in small increments.  The change I was focusing on was the lack of an item value being displayed to you.  I understand that this is annoying, and I agree that this is annoying specifically because these items do have exact values.

However, you need to explain how somebody without the internet and without real world experience would know what these items are actually valued at, and yet you have not explained how this is possible.

Similarly, you seem to be shooting down everybody else's suggestions for improvement and feedback as well, which is a quick way to doom an idea, and prevent it from gaining any traction.  Obviously if you disagree with somebody or something they've said in principle then you should let everybody know however.  But as an example, turning down the suggestion of a trade blanket because it doesn't mend the "fractured" trade system completely doesn't help your suggestion gain any momentum.



From what I can tell from this discussion, your problem seems largely to be due to the user interface.  Perhaps it would help if you drew up something and posted it.  It would need only be functional and labelled with what you had in mind, and not particularly pretty.  I'm sure people would judge your idea based on merit and not the prettiness of your drawing so you could even do this up in mspaint or something if you felt like it.

Lastly, the bit where villagers will accept a trade and not let you alter it without starting the trade again from scratch comes as a compromise between reality and what would be fun to deal with.  Normally in the real world if you over-promise or over-offer for something, people will get fixated on that offer and will stop being reasonable.  If you offer 40 dried bear cuts for something when 20 would suffice, no-one would be okay with your going, "Well, if you would take 40 cuts for it, then why not 35?  Why not 30?  Why not 25?".  People would get very angry, very quickly.  Obviously though, nobody wants to give away massive amounts of wealth either or save scum if their attempts fail either though.  The option to start the trade over from scratch is a compromise here instead.  Not a great one, but maybe you have an idea how this could be changed?

67

Suggestions / Re: Smaller characters should use smaller clothing/armour

« on: August 07, 2019, 09:21:11 PM »

I think items of unusual size should cost more as well.  Meaning, that very small armour is not necessarily cheaper.  Armour would have to be more common as well though to some extent, because otherwise you'll end up with severe difficulty finding appropriate armor to wear (you'll cut the available good armour by 1/5)

68

Suggestions / Re: But that villager died

« on: August 07, 2019, 09:12:32 PM »

I occasionally stumble across people in the wilderness.  Isn't it possible to hire them to help you?  At little risk since if they die, they aren't associated with a village?

69

Suggestions / Re: Improved trading system

« on: July 29, 2019, 10:37:26 PM »

Actually, one thing that would be nice would be a bartering skill itself that goes up over time as you trade, along with semi-randomized prices based on mood and regional scarcity (very small variation, not enough on it's own to potentially generate lots of wealth).

Basically, the higher your bartering skill, the more likely the value of an item is to be known to you, and even if you don't know the value of the item, you get a ballpark estimate instead.

Then add to this, a limited number of chances (which you get more of as your bartering skill increases) to actually get a trade for an item to go though and you would eliminate more of the issue.  Probably not in the way that you would like though.

70

Suggestions / Re: Precautions against accidental fire setting

« on: July 29, 2019, 10:17:49 PM »

I found I've had to light arrows on fire though, to prevent myself from freezing to death.

71

Suggestions / Re: Fix Robbers

« on: May 17, 2019, 10:30:30 PM »

Actually, if I can 'throw' this suggestion in here...  Perhaps we can throw a net at an entity (at the cost of a ton of durability on the net), and if it hit's the entity ends up being tangled up for a while.  An entity that is tangled up can't really fight back, so it would be simple to knock that entity out and take their stuff.  Also, just being able to take things from people that are unconscious or sleeping would be nice too.  Sleep would give a chance for the target to wake up and get upset, obviously.

72

Suggestions / Re: Rules of engagement for adventurers in the wild

« on: May 15, 2019, 03:35:06 AM »

Maybe the death of an NPC should have the potential to spawn a new type of NPC somewhere off in the distance who is looking for the now dead NPC.  A list of gear that the NPC died with should also be created, excluding common items like arrows, and food.  And the cause of death should be recorded, as this would be important for determining the concequences of getting caught with that persons gear.  The hire status of the NPC should also probably be recorded.  Possible permutations could include:
-The tracking NPC spawns at a village associated with the now dead NPC and...

• stays there, waiting for the NPC to return or you would just choose a random villager already present to be the tracker instead.
• leaves the village and moves towards the spot the NPC died at.
• tracks the player directly.

The idea being that if the tracking NPC finds your character with gear that the now dead NPC was carrying/using you should have to pass a suspicion check before your Scott-free.

Moderately common items that are just of average quality shouldn't raise much suspicion (handaxes for example), but items of either high or low quality (especially masterwork). rare  items (like hunting horns) should stand out more, cultural items from a culture you don't belong to should stand out more, and really value dense items like rings and bracelets should all stand out and create lots of suspicion if they where carried by the dead NPC (on the list).

The idea behind the list is that it doesn't tag the items directly as stolen, and hence give people a way to know that something is up, and it also leaves room for the possibility that the tracker who finds you may genuinely be wrong if or when they confront you.

So, when a tracker confronts you, they should compare each item they would know the deceased was carrying to the items you are carrying.  Each time an item matches, there should be a roll based on the characteristics of the item for them to become suspicious of that item.  If none of the items are suspicious, the NPC should still be willing to talk to you but wouldn't have much to go on.  (However you wouldn't want to give that away just yet.)

The NPC should ask you if you know about the whereabouts of the deceased person, if you have seen them before, or if you hired the deceased from a village they should ask you why the deceased is not with you (and should be suspicious if they wern't already).

At this point you would have 3 options.  You could tell the truth if your character knows what happened.  You could make something up.  Or you could simply say you don't know.  If you tell the truth, and the truth is that you killed the deceased, this would be a confession.  Otherwise, you would simply be telling the NPC what happened, basically listing the cause of death that was recorded by the game at the time the deceased passed on.  Examples could include "{They} fell through the ice and drowned.", "{They} where {mauled/clawed/biten} by a {hostile animal or pack of animals}", "{They} froze/burned to death.", "{They} where shot by {somebody other than you}." (if that person is your companion and is still with you, they should probably freak out and make things worse), "We where attacked by {a hostile foreigner/a pack of bandits or gang of foreigners} and {They} didn't make it.", "We ate something poisonous/tainted without knowing it, and {They} died." the list could go on depending on there being new ways for an NPC to die or not.  Some stories may still sound really bad though, even if they are truthful however.  Especially burning to death, or dying of illness/poison.

Lying would allow you to concoct something similar to something you may say truthfully, including passing off blame onto a companion who you previously hired who is no longer with you (perhaps also dead?), and this option may curry favor with somebody if they are accidentally at fault for killing somebody (most likely by accidentally shooting somebody else), but lying would have the potential to raise suspicion if your character fails either a willpower or intelligence check.

If you say you don't know, you could either say "I've never met {Them}." or "{They} went home already, didn't they?".

At this point, the NPC would start asking about the items they think are suspicious in your inventory, and you can say stuff like "I bought {this thing}", "{this thing} is a family heirloom.", "I found {this thing}.", "I made {this thing}", or "I was bringing {this thing} back. (Stating the item belonged to the deceased.)".

Alternatively, if you are confessing to killing the deceased you would be given a chance to explain why.  Reasons could include you really need something on {them} (admitting you took that item), {they} took your {thing(s)} off of your settlements, {they} killed your pet(s) or livestock (or both), {they} destroyed or where destroying your traps, {they} attacked you, {they} startled you by wandering into your cabin at night (perhaps while asleep?), is was an accident while hunting or fighting a hostile group of people, or perhaps you just don't like them.  Depending on your current condition, or the time of the conflict, you may or may not garner some sympathy.  For instance, you are starving and really needed their smoked badger cuts.  You where freezing and really needed their overcoat.  You where defending yourself (and still covered in nasty wounds).

If they version of events dosn't logically check out or is really callous, the NPC should automatically accuse you of murder and get angry.  This should be triggered by obvious stuff like "I've never met them, here's their stuff.", "{they} attacked me! (and had little to no combat skill, possibly an old man, a woman, or a child)", "I really needed that masterwork bronze brooch.", "{They} stole my leaky wooden cups!"... 

Anyways, if they accuse you of murder in a village, the locals should react with shock and refuse to deal with you.  If you previously run afoul of the village (say by stealing things, settings on fire, killing livestock, ect), the villagers should possibly get angry enough to attack you on sight. 

If they come to the conclusion that you murdered the deceased, while you both are in the wilderness, the tracker should either:

• run away back to the village (with the same precipitous drop in reputation if they reach the village).
• demand you hand back the items they think are suspicious, and then head back to the village (with the same precipitous drop in reputation if they reach the village).
• get angry and attack you directly.

If you confess and successfully elicit sympathy, they may forgive you and possibly help you with your condition (starvation, injury, or illness/poison).  They may or may not still ask for the suspicious items back.

Otherwise, if they don't believe you did it or otherwise think the deceased is still alive, then you get off Scott-free.

Edit:

Since a fair chunk of murder is likely to happen in no-man's land, it might be a good idea to consider that you only think somebody is a "vagabond" because you don't know which village or culture the person actually belongs too.  This would mean that attacking vagabonds in the wilderness carries more risk if you decide you want to trade their goods away.  The risk is smaller overall, but it should be that much more suprising and scary if you are confronted, especially in a village.  And if you earn wealth by killing people all the time, you are more and more likely to get accused of murder over time unless the tracker finds the items at the point where the deceased person died, and brings them back to the village.

73

Gameplay questions / Re: How can I remove a wall?

« on: April 05, 2019, 07:57:49 AM »

Have you tried deconstructing it with the [shift + M] menu under building?

74

Gameplay questions / Broad Knife vrs Hunting Knife

« on: April 05, 2019, 06:18:11 AM »

Small question...  I know I've been playing this forever, but I'm wondering.  Which knife is better for getting more cuts of meat vrs which one is better for getting hides?

I've always thought that the hunting knife is better for getting more meat while the broad knife is better for getting higher quality hide.  Yet, if I have an equal quality hunting knife and a broad knife, I always use the broad knife.  If butcher an animal for meat, I use a broad knife.  If I skin the animal for hide, I use a broad knife.  If I do any hide work, I use a broad knife.  What is the point of the hunting knife if it isn't good at anything specific?

75

General Discussion / Re: course reward

« on: February 09, 2019, 12:36:06 AM »

Does strength increase the damage you do with many different weapons?  Like shooting an arrow with a bow, stabbing with a spear, slicing with an axe or a sword, smashing with a mace or a club, ect?  Not stabbing with a knife though.