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Buff up the elks, add swimming and jumping over fences
Ok we all know Unreal predators (even lynxes) are dangerous. But that's cool and all, I'm not here because of that. My point is: Unreal elks aren't. They really are wimpy compared to the real ones. My current char had so much trouble chasing an elk he dropped all weapons but a small knife in order to ski faster. In the end, he knifed and kicked an adult elk to death (with near or zero skill in those). Sure he got a crush in the eye and fractured ribs and some bruises. Now watch this video I took when an adult bull elk was spooked by our approaching car and tried to jump over a reindeer fence. Spoiler: Bull elk stuck on reindeer fence • show Would you have gone there with a knife?  He tore up the fence and walked slowly away like a boss. Here's the fence afterwards:Spoiler: Obliterated fence • show What happened was just bad luck on its behalf. Normally they jump gracefully over no problem. That's actually a requirement of the modern reindeer fence. So finally coming up to my suggestion: 1) I'd like to see elks, especially bull ones, buffed up considerably. It should be madness to go against them practically bare-handed. The reward is anyways a huge amount of meat. More strength, stamina and speed. 2) Elk AI: Naturally they should almost always just flee, but when cornered they shouldn't just run circles to exhaustion but stop to rest and threaten the pursuer with a snort and kicking the ground. Fight or flight, not flight until breathless (see no. 4)  3) Enable elk to jump over fences or even break them when fleeing. 4) Elks are great swimmers irl, ought to be grandmasters in Urw. Spoiler: Basic URW elk hunting tactic • show It'd be cool to come to a new version of urw and try to exploit this old tactic only to realize the elk just swims away. Of course there should be some reluctance to animals wading and swimming, but it'd be a cool addition. Applies to reindeers too. Let's actually speak of ungulates. EDIT: I found this bug report: https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=4731.0 5) Urw ungulates (hoofed herbivores) are pretty good to get out of a hole in ice? I've noticed that ungulates fall through ice easily and get out just as easily. Imagine an elk in a hole in the ice. No way it's gonna get on the ice again unless wading. This would also be a bit of balancing to previous things that make elk hunting much more difficult. Also reluctance to enter thin ice would need to be somewhat increased, maybe only when escaping. 6) EDIT: Attack: Trampling. (Allow aggressive elks/big reindeer/beoars to enter a tile with a character, making them 'fallen'.) Hehe. And there it goes... 7) EDIT: Only pits should work for ungulates. This was always odd anyway... It's not in their nature to go into tight spots. I think all ungulates should pass all snares, lever and deadfall traps without harm or trigger. IRL, IRL...Why do I think this is so important game-wise? - I think this is a major game balancing issue, increasing time span to get secure with food. - Currently is easy to exploit big herbivore ai to get one's belly full for a long time. I'd like to see elks as a prize, not a potato.  - Making ungulates harder would make small game hunting/fishing for food more useful/needed. Bring on the discussion! What do you think? November 10, 2020, 08:24:01 PM |
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Lots of angling improvements on their way
Fishing with a fishing rod is going to have if not a complete overhaul, a lots of improvements at least. I've been tweaking the angling code for a good while already, and the work just seems to continue and continue, but when it's all done we're going to have something like this featured: - fishing rods will be craftable by player character, with slender trunks, cordage and hook. - wooden and bone hooks will be craftable by player character. (If I get really carried away there might be some special hook types for special occasions.) - baiting will be featured. Worm digging is under consideration but we can also start with scraps of food and using small fish to catch bigger fish. - wear and tear of fishing rod parts will be featured eg. hooks snapping off eventually, when they've been nibbled enough. (Gotta add possibility to add new hooks as well.) These are future additions. Not yet functional in current version 3.63. November 17, 2020, 05:40:14 PM |
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Re: A few things i am afraid that they could be overlooked in all the euphoria...
Good suggestions overall. I have to comment, on behalf of and before Sami has the chance to, that he'd probably like to have these suggestions on separate threads in the future. That way its easier for all of us to keep the discussion focused and have topics that describe the content. The leather part leads me to think you may have missed this discussion: https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5835.0. There was also another I started, about curing... Very warmly support animals eating. I was going to suggest this too at some point. On agriculture is nice too, though I rarely farm that much. But auto-pickup all mode would be useful. Also agriculture - it seems to me - to be too secure a living. No extreme weather / disease / pests spoiling crops and causing famine... Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't really tried to live on it. December 01, 2020, 07:51:24 AM |
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Re: A few things i am afraid that they could be overlooked in all the euphoria...
I second agriculture being a bit too secure/productive. For fun/curiosity/extra pandemic food source  I attempted to grow 100 square feet of barley this past spring/summer in a very fertile garden bed. It grew absolutely beautifully until about 1 month before harvest was due a windstorm flattened the whole patch, which then succumbed to some kind of fungal infection. I got 0 harvestable barley plants.Probably the ancient Finns would have had crops better adapted to their climate than some random barley seeds off the internet, but it was still quite surprising/enlightening to not even have a single harvestable plant. On the flip side, there is at least the influence of marauding animals in the game. I never actually saw him eat, but I had a badger wreak utter destruction on my crops with one character. December 01, 2020, 09:06:55 AM |
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Re: A few things i am afraid that they could be overlooked in all the euphoria...
Re: Animals eating- I've seen elk and badgers completely destroy my turnip fields (pretty much the only crops I ever plant). Would we want to have to grow a grain crop just to feed cows or reindeer through winter? Re: Leather- I recall when I started playing the game how I was excited to acquire leather armor bits. Then I learned about bear fur and started hunting that, instead. Meanwhile, I have characters with 50, even 100 pounds of bird leather for which I can conceive little use except as belts or ropes. How thick could it be? Anyway, perhaps we could make leather sleeping pads for keeping off the cold ground, or harnesses and load-bearing gear for our animals. I agree that leather could be buffed somehow to make it more valuable and useful in-game. Re: Harvesting- It sounds like you're thinking about taking in your plots of tended fields. It might be awkward programming that when you include the villager's 'fields' or harvesting scattered herbs. December 01, 2020, 07:21:55 PM |
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Re: Lots of angling improvements on their way
Disappointed. Not to wh... I mean worry all that much. Rod fishing becomes more challenging as the type of fish caught becomes more dependant on the bait used. For example catching big predatory fish with empty hooks will be practically impossible. Aaand for more elaborate fishing worries the suggestions section is open. December 01, 2020, 07:31:34 PM |
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Re: Lots of angling improvements on their way
This is great news, and should add some additional drama/trauma/realism to fishing much as you've done (continued) with cooking, ice, weather, fire. Looking forward to the outcomes / possibilities maybe even fish traps for specific conditions There will be some additional drama and fun, for sure. That I see already with the current additions. We've dreamed about fish traps too, for years, but I guess the fishing additions at hand now concentrate on rod fishing alone. December 01, 2020, 07:35:39 PM |
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Re: Lots of angling improvements on their way
Sorry, back to topic: One thing i'd love to see would be fish traps in shallow water(preferably in fords), as these evidently had been one of the main food aquiring methods of early mankind. They should be easy to make, but with low and not guaranteed catch sizes, especially if you chose a poor location... Yep, like mentioned above we've dreamed about fish traps constructions too, but currently the additions concentrate on rod fishing alone. Fixed fish trap construction are really old invention in Finland too, dating back to stone-age, to they surely should have their place within the fishing methods. One day then. Quote another feature i could imagine would be attracting fish by throwing food into the water. Perhaps even influence the outcome by different foods. Well, we'll be having baits in hooks. The different types will indeed attract different kind of fish. Quote And speaking of fishes: I havent seen a single living one yet...Even if its just a cosmetic change, implementing some live marine animals which you can observe occasionaly would add a great depth to the game atmosphere. Imagine some wales or silver swarms of herring passing by in the distance... This is because the fish aren't really featured in the game the same way as rest of the creatures. It would be bit of an overkill to keep track of hundreds fish swimming around at zoomed-in maps, but some jumps and ripples on the water would be nice for atmosphere indeed. Well, at least there are some marine animals to observe: seals. December 01, 2020, 07:47:41 PM |
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Re: A few things i am afraid that they could be overlooked in all the euphoria...
I looked at the leather post of yours, but i dont think its basically the same with my concerns. Oh I'm sorry. I was staring at this: - leather My leather post was, I admit, a little comprehensive. But there was this conclusion: My reasoning apart from what already been said: Now I'll answer the other part: Second, give it an actual use? leather clothing seems to be somewhat extremely underpowered. i think it should at least be a good trade between protection and weight penalty especially on warm days. At the time, it even takes a lot more work to aquire it, yet being inferior in all aspects to fur(ignoring the little point dmg advantage). I agree that leather is too encumbering compared to fur. And if one aims to make protective leather pieces, certainly they could be made harder and thicker and even better than 'just' fur. And heavier. It's just the perceived anachronism that can be in the way. Of course i would like to have tanning overhauled as you suggested to make it more realistic. But i think perhaps(?) this time i speak on behalf of sami when i say that this can wait... Sure i can understand its more of an important thing for you if you do things like that IRL. I'm glad you like them! Let me explain myself a bit, so you hopefully like them even more  Speaking of overhaul, they are mostly aimed to make the game more playable, instead of realistic. I've made two suggestion threads on the subject: on terminology and curing. The terminology thread starter is long, but the suggestions in it are technically very spesific and relatively quickly doable, I believe. (Smoking might need some work, though.) The curing thread indeed suggests a tanning overhaul for realism, but doesn't require it to reach its main aims: So, getting finally to my suggestion: The 'overhaul' was this: 3) complicate tanning to make it more realistic and to encourage curing to be used more You see, I put a great deal of thought in writing suggestions, to make them easily readable and doable from coder's perspective. Numbers are also usually orders of priority in my lists, where applicable. But they are only suggestions, not requests. Something put freely on the table to gather refining feedback and possible support from fellow Unrealists. It's totally up to Sami to decide what to do with it and what are the priorities. I actually don't even expect it (3+4), but if Sami really is up to actual tanning overhaul, I'm at his service if the time comes. EDIT: There's actually some ideas in the terminology discussion later on. I had forgotten. But from a technical gameplay perspective i think it works fine, but should at least get the right description while tanning. that is my point.Curing immediately after skinning would be big gameplay change and smaller change in code, imho. But we all have our priorities Same with farming. Balance-wise i find it working good, perhaps must be nerfed, but thats not my concern. Mine is just a suggestion to get rid of the most hand-aching keyjockeyings. especially if you sit on a punt, you gotta press shift + g all the time... then chose amount and confirm. Harvesting from a punt? Clever. So I see you need not just auto-pickup where you stand but harvesting too. Like automatically harvesting/picking up instead of moving on a harvestable/pickupable plant/item-mode. Would that work? i mean, in the end, everything you do in URW is much easier than it would be in real life. when i think about it; in a strange way, physical pain is some real-realistic consequence of living a farming lifestyle. hunters and nomads dont have knee problems... unless it's a bear ripping your leg off Yes I agree. Real life = pain.  December 02, 2020, 12:00:57 AM |
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Re: A few things i am afraid that they could be overlooked in all the euphoria...
"i cannot get a grasp of what you mean regarding the harvesting." I refer to how the player will have orderly fields of 40x40 plantings (or even larger), whereas the villagers 'fields', in the clear lands around their village consist of widely scattered plantings of a single square of land. The latter would not lend itself easily to programming, I suspect. December 02, 2020, 01:19:28 AM |
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Lord knows we have the cordage now!