UnReal World forums
UnReal World => Suggestions => Topic started by: More_tribal_interaction on January 16, 2019, 10:50:57 AM
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1) Can we have a harpoon for stabbing seals and reeling them in? Would make hunting more exciting. Seel hunting is such an integral part of the lifestyle of many coastal tribes/cultures.
2) There are unique ranged weapons specific to particular cultures like the atlatl, boomerang, and there's this non-lethal weapon made up of stones tied together with strings that are thrown around an animal/human's legs to trip them up.
Are there any such weapons used by iron Age Finnish?
3) Can we please have a lasso system to capture forest reindeer?
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1) Can we have a harpoon for stabbing seals and reeling them in?
It's called the ango
3) Can we please have a lasso system to capture forest reindeer?
That makes no sense...
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1) It would be nice to be able to attach ropes to the ango so as to attempt to hold a speared seal... though obviously if the seal weighs more than you do then it's unlikely to end well! Maybe tying the bitter end of the ropes off on a tree would work, but it would often be a long wait to ambush a seal in range.
2) That's a bolas, and I don't think one would be any use in a forest. Where a spear or arrow may penetrate undergrowth to hit an animal's legs, a bolas won't.
3) I have seen Sami people using lassos to control tamed reindeer, but I reckon you'd have to get very close to get an un-penned wild reindeer with one.
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I would agree that a rope tied around the ango would be quite nice. Not sure if it's historical or not
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I'm 150% sure that harpoons for whales/seals have been in use by seafaring cultures for very long. What I don't know is whether harpoons were used in Iron Age Finland.
As for Signatus' reply, you are aware that the ango doesn't come with *rope* right? How can something be a harpoon if it doesn't have rope attached?
@ bert preast, you can use dogs to run the reindeer to exhaustion before lassoing? It would be fun to be Klaus and gather your own reindeer tribe. All you would be missing are short helpers with pointy ears...
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Did some very light googling I did not find any fin specific information but other northern peoples who hunt with harpoons sometimes add a float or bag that tires the animal as it drags it through the water. Also on has to remember that while a seal may be heavier than a human the question is how much can the seal pull in the water it's doubtful that it can pull equal to it's weight as it gas nothing to push off of other than water.
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I'm 150% sure that harpoons for whales/seals have been in use by seafaring cultures for very long. What I don't know is whether harpoons were used in Iron Age Finland.
As for Signatus' reply, you are aware that the ango doesn't come with *rope* right? How can something be a harpoon if it doesn't have rope attached?
The ango (or angon) is barbed in such away that it's really hard, if not impossible, for the victim to remove it. They'll likely just die from their wounds. We know that angos were used about a 1000 years ago in Finland, but a harpoon not so much. It's possible, but it's also something that would probably need a boat and more people, no? Can a human really reel in a huge seal on their own?
I also see a problem with programming these ropes going around the map as the creature moves... it would be cool if they could get tangled in a couple trees/rocks, but that must be hell to program correctly. I think a bolas would be easier as a way to immobilize targets.
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Maybe the float/drag system then? When ango hits an animal, a drag is attached... animal tires much more quickly, especially swimming seals. Currently, seals are VERY hard to hunt... probably one of the most challenging animals in the game. Maybe this is historically accurate but I'd be in favor of any invention that would give humans a fighting chance...
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Sami people have been using harpoons for thousands of years, certainly before middle ages. And they used (and still use) to hunt walruses and whales, apart from seals. The people in UrW are based on Sami, so I don't see a reason other than technical to not implement it.
However, not all changes in the game in the past bring it closer to reality, some changes actually make it less close. For example Sami use a method of hunting reindeer by skiing in deep snow, tiring the reindeer, and finishing it with spears or arrows. It used to be easy and possible in UrW, but after changes to the skiing not so much.
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Sami people have been using harpoons for thousands of years, certainly before middle ages. And they used (and still use) to hunt walruses and whales, apart from seals. The people in UrW are based on Sami, so I don't see a reason other than technical to not implement it.
OBJECTION! *points finger*
The harpoon was central to the whale fisheries of the world. Harpoons have been used for at least a thousand years to capture whales and large fish. The Basques of 900 A.D. were among the earliest whalers. Their word arpoi, meaning to fasten or hold, became arpon in Spanish, and harpoon, or harping iron, in English.
http://www.whalecraft.net/Harpoons.html
As I mentioned before, harpoons evolved off the ango/javelin, which appeared around the iron age and roman empire. If the earliest whalers were in 900 CE that makes it even harder for people in Finland to have that technological improvement. It was also really inefficient, and was based on fastening the whale to the boat.
As for the Sami being the inspiration, I believe that only applies to the northern tribes. The driik are very obviously based around Finns proper, who were the most commercial and "advanced" peoples there, often in contact with Scandinavia. Hence the "hillforts" made of big rocks
That being said, I couldn't really find any info on the Sami using harpoons. Also, aren't seals relatively easy to run after when in land?
The ango has the biggest attack bonus of all the weapons. Maybe it gets stuck and slows enemies down? I've never used one so I wouldn't know
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The biggest confusion for me in this thread is that Sami is the name of the developer of the software and appears Sami is also a cultural group in northern Finland.
So yes... we can pin this on Sami.
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They might not have harpoons, but they do have the Sámi knife (lapinleuku), which I assume to be the Northern knife in-game, and the guksi, which is essentially a carved birch drinking cup, specifically from birch burls. Video for anyone interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwvhGwsE3hs
We could either start calling them Saami, or perhaps we should rename Sami himself to "Santa's little programming monkey" or just "The Dev" ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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If you define the harpoon as something which is attached to the boat, then they didn't use this kind of contraption. But I use the definition that harpoon is the the spear with a strong line attached. And they used it - they attached it to a bladder or bag or some other float, to both impede movement of the animal, and to retrieve it easier from the water later.
Actually I use "harpoon" for fish spears in general, because many archaeologists use this word in this meaning. The oldest harpoon named as such is made from deer antlers, it was initially dated 6000-8000 years (later revised to ~12000 after carbon dating), and of course there is no shaft anymore (because it was wooden), it's named the Leman and Ower Bank Harpoon, and was tied to a Kunda culture, which are by scientists considered ancestors (or rather one of ancestors) of Sami. Still, if the carbon dating is correct, it was made by some even older culture...
Also only one group of Sami regularly pursues whales (Sjo Sami, a.k.a Sea Lapps), others do it only when the whales are in the shallow coastal waters. But all groups living near seal hunt seals.
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If you define the harpoon as something which is attached to the boat, then they didn't use this kind of contraption. But I use the definition that harpoon is the the spear with a strong line attached. And they used it - they attached it to a bladder or bag or some other float, to both impede movement of the animal, and to retrieve it easier from the water later.
Do you have any source for the bag thing? Because I searched and could find no mention of a bag nor a rope: http://northernwildernesskills.blogspot.com/2018/01/sjalen-seal-hunting-in-northern-baltic.html
Actually I use "harpoon" for fish spears in general, because many archaeologists use this word in this meaning.
But in that case we're talking exactly about the ango:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-f3GRi40Oooo/Tqls5OBnpXI/AAAAAAAAAG8/qbW3HX6bEy0/s1600/Pila-+Evolution.JPG)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-k7A7e_llQwM/Tqlv0Nn0QDI/AAAAAAAAAHE/WQqjhtHhVSU/s1600/Angon+label.JPG)
Source: http://thethegns.blogspot.com/2011/11/angon-english-heavy-javelin.html
It does seem that the Wiki has a picture of an ango including a rope, though, but I found absolutely no mention of ropes used in seal hunting or along with spears, while references to the "typical Finnish angon" or "Finnish angon javelin" are easy to find, and is clearly mentioned as there being a local version used in the Late Iron age.
Also only one group of Sami regularly pursues whales (Sjo Sami, a.k.a Sea Lapps), others do it only when the whales are in the shallow coastal waters. But all groups living near seal hunt seals.
Not disputing that, I'm just questioning the usefulness of a rope attached to the ango when you're hunting a 300 kg creature across the ice. Alone. You're not going to dive into the breathing hole and chase it, right?
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The float/drag was not Finnish but from a first nation tribe. I was going off the idea that people in similar environments and with similar resources would develop similar technologies. As to the 300kg animal it may very well be able to generate enough force to pull a man but it is swimming in water which will severely curtail it's ability to move a land based object.
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And if I understand it correctly, the sea saami were located in what's now Norway, along the Atlantic coast, not in Finland along the Baltic. I don't know to what extent the Finnish saami fished in the Baltic, but they'd be bound to run into pre-existing coastal populations in many places (after all, human settlement tended to extend along the coastlines), but whether (and, if so, how far) the population from Scandinavia extended into the Finnish coastal areas at the time I don' t know.
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But don't fishes already exerrt a lot of pressure on a fishing rod? If a <10 kg fish is hard enough to tame alone, won't a beast 15 times its weight (at least) not make a puny owly go flying through the air? I don't think the fact that it's in water should make any difference
I think I read that there used to be seal hunting on the baltic sea. However, from what I could gather it consiated of finding the seals near the breathing holes or bits of ice and chasing or spearing/clubbing them, usually in the spring.
There seem to be people who seal-hunt in the 21st century without guns or harpoons, making use of that special club-like weapon. They jump around the ice to get to the seals, it seems
Are seals fast in-game when in land?
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There are seals in the Baltic, and coastal people have probably hunted them since people arrived in the area during the stone age.
Seals are reasonably fast on land in UrW. If you position yourself between a seal and the water you may be able to get two or three whacks at them as they try to get to safety, but I don't think any of my attempts resulted in actually being able to kill one before they got away. Also note that seals don't tend to go far inland (which is rather reasonable). Bear or pit traps placed where the seals enter/exit the sea can catch them, though.
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The feel of a ten pound fish may be large due to the fact that your holding on to a pole which from a phyics stand point acts as a lever that you are on the wrong end. Also I sport fishing we like to use line rated for near to the weight of our tagert fish, at least I do, makes it way more fun when to have to play the fish instead of being able to yank it out. Now when it comes to your puny owl lifting that seal out of the water no going to happen. Once again I have no idea of the strength of a seal in water I'm just saying that the pull of a seal in water compared to a similar weighted land animal is significantly less
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I asked Sami about using harpoons back on the old forum somewhere. From memory, what he told me was that angons were used to immobilise seals, not as much by physically dragging them by a rope but because it's a large heavy object impaled in them. He also told me that since the game doesn't have a way to have animals impeded in this way, you can't use angons in the intended way in the game (and I can tell you from experience that in the game even crippled seals can crawl into the water and swim away, taking your missile weapons with them).
It's one of the things I would really like to see added in the game, because with the way I play seals are an important food source. Right now I use traps to catch them, which isn't really accurate but I don't have the accurate means for catching them available to me, so here we are. It is possible to catch seals by active hunting, but you normally have to have multiple goes at the same seal where you wound it, it goes underwater, it comes back and you wound it again, until you finally kill it. This is possible because they like to return to the same spot over and over, which also makes trapping them super effective.