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UnReal World => Suggestions => Topic started by: Brygun on December 06, 2018, 12:32:34 AM

Title: But that villager died
Post by: Brygun on December 06, 2018, 12:32:34 AM
Our beloved journal character Novrus went to the nearest village to equip and hire an long term companion.

He was told it wasn't possible until the previous hire returned. That being Nilla.

Nilla who died to a bear.

This appears to be a logic block.

I get it there could be bad feelings over a dead villager. I did gift them half the bear's meat and returned the 110+ elk cuts Nill had, plus Nilla's knife and axe.

We need and/or is there a way to resolve the villages feelings? 'Cause it not like a bring a corpse back especially when I gave him a funeral pyre.

Title: Re: But that villager died
Post by: Brygun on December 06, 2018, 12:44:00 AM
Perhaps the quest system can be used to rectify the situation.

Title: Re: But that villager died
Post by: Privateer on December 06, 2018, 02:14:12 AM
Time will heal the wounds.. erm ill feelings
Title: Re: But that villager died
Post by: PALU on December 06, 2018, 09:57:39 AM
@Privateer : Does it? My experience is that once a hireling has killed another by shooting him in the back during a robber fight there will not be any more hirelings from that village (unless the cool down is in the order of 10 years, as I don't think my character is that old yet).

Don't ever hire anyone with a missile weapon if there is even a remote risk of fighting, as fights will typically result in arrows in the back of someone (e.g. your character) who isn't an enemy. I'm not even sure missile equipped hirelings have dealt more damage to enemies than to allies.
Title: Re: But that villager died
Post by: Privateer on December 06, 2018, 06:59:50 PM
Maybe I don't remember correctly when this discussion took place;
Quote
Version: 3.18 (stable)
Released: 27-Feb-2014

- added: villagers are unwilling to join you if the companions you hire go missing

As I recall it was supposed to wane with time. I also seem to remember that there is a file which could be zeroed or removed
to encourage forgetfulness.
Title: Re: But that villager died
Post by: PALU on December 06, 2018, 07:57:04 PM
If it's supposed to wane it might be that I'm subjected to yet another character migration issue (Sami has fixed a bunch of those), as my character was created back with the first 3.40 version (not incredibly old, but old enough to get some issues).
Title: Re: But that villager died
Post by: Brygun on December 09, 2018, 02:50:15 AM
Okay.

So long as it does heal.

Though I respectfully submit for consideration gifting the villagers or asking for forgiveness quest to pay were-guild (blood money aka he's dead Im sorry money) to the village.

Title: Re: But that villager died
Post by: Bedlam on January 08, 2019, 04:57:01 AM
Been 3+ years here, and still no one wants to go hunting with me "until we see Tauno who went with you".   I brought Tauno's lifeless body to the village back when he met his end, so everyone definitely saw him...  Perhaps it's Driik sarcasm in action.
Title: Re: But that villager died
Post by: Edico on January 13, 2019, 01:59:08 AM
Been 3+ years here, and still no one wants to go hunting with me "until we see Tauno who went with you".   I brought Tauno's lifeless body to the village back when he met his end, so everyone definitely saw him...  Perhaps it's Driik sarcasm in action.

Driik do have a strange sense of humor
Title: Re: But that villager died
Post by: Sami on March 17, 2019, 11:58:43 AM
I'm afraid time won't heal the villagers feelings in regards to non-returning companions, but this is not a bug either, it's just a way it is, and I'll move the thread at suggestions.

Adding mechanisms to tell the NPCs what really happened is tricky, and still even if the companions would die fairly I don't know if villagers still should always be like "He died when hunting with you? Ok, we don't mind that, here have a another hunting assistant, we wish him better luck than the previous. Hehe."   :D

This is something to tweak/ponder in the future, but there's not an easy way to find a good consensus.
Title: Re: But that villager died
Post by: PALU on March 17, 2019, 02:33:48 PM
The one case where I definitely feel death in the line of duty shouldn't tarnish the player's reputation too much is when trying to hunt robbers at the request of a village (i.e. the robber quest). I always feel a bit bad to hire these assistants for a "hunting trip" (with a whispered " hunting for robbers, that is"), rather than be honest about the nature of the mission.
Title: Re: But that villager died
Post by: Credit on March 31, 2019, 04:38:19 AM
I'm afraid time won't heal the villagers feelings in regards to non-returning companions, but this is not a bug either, it's just a way it is, and I'll move the thread at suggestions.

Adding mechanisms to tell the NPCs what really happened is tricky, and still even if the companions would die fairly I don't know if villagers still should always be like "He died when hunting with you? Ok, we don't mind that, here have a another hunting assistant, we wish him better luck than the previous. Hehe."   :D

This is something to tweak/ponder in the future, but there's not an easy way to find a good consensus.

Wouldn't it be a simple case of adding a descriptor for where the damage came from? ie. deep knife cut/bit off arm. And then when you bring the body, the village shaman would examine the body to see if you were in fact telling the truth? Surely, getting killed by a bear would be different from a fight with a human?

And is there really that many different cases of death in the unreal world? Especially for NPC's?
Title: Re: But that villager died
Post by: JEB Davis on March 31, 2019, 12:12:53 PM
I'm afraid time won't heal the villagers feelings in regards to non-returning companions, but this is not a bug either, it's just a way it is, and I'll move the thread at suggestions.

Adding mechanisms to tell the NPCs what really happened is tricky, and still even if the companions would die fairly I don't know if villagers still should always be like "He died when hunting with you? Ok, we don't mind that, here have a another hunting assistant, we wish him better luck than the previous. Hehe."   :D

This is something to tweak/ponder in the future, but there's not an easy way to find a good consensus.

Wouldn't it be a simple case of adding a descriptor for where the damage came from? ie. deep knife cut/bit off arm. And then when you bring the body, the village shaman would examine the body to see if you were in fact telling the truth? Surely, getting killed by a bear would be different from a fight with a human?

And is there really that many different cases of death in the unreal world? Especially for NPC's?
That could be a good start, but how does the shaman know who's hand held the knife? 
Plenty of players have stated they hire NPC's and then kill them to steal their gear.
Title: Re: But that villager died
Post by: Credit on March 31, 2019, 03:17:45 PM
I'm afraid time won't heal the villagers feelings in regards to non-returning companions, but this is not a bug either, it's just a way it is, and I'll move the thread at suggestions.

Adding mechanisms to tell the NPCs what really happened is tricky, and still even if the companions would die fairly I don't know if villagers still should always be like "He died when hunting with you? Ok, we don't mind that, here have a another hunting assistant, we wish him better luck than the previous. Hehe."   :D

This is something to tweak/ponder in the future, but there's not an easy way to find a good consensus.

Wouldn't it be a simple case of adding a descriptor for where the damage came from? ie. deep knife cut/bit off arm. And then when you bring the body, the village shaman would examine the body to see if you were in fact telling the truth? Surely, getting killed by a bear would be different from a fight with a human?

And is there really that many different cases of death in the unreal world? Especially for NPC's?
That could be a good start, but how does the shaman know who's hand held the knife? 
Plenty of players have stated they hire NPC's and then kill them to steal their gear.

I feel like, that would also be the case in the real world without DNA.
Word travels fast in the unreal world. I can see situations where the village would expect death or serious injury.
Title: Re: But that villager died
Post by: Saiko Kila on April 01, 2019, 07:57:00 PM
Shamans should be able to ask the spirits. The spirits apparently know what's going in the forest. You could summon them every day if you want so they doesn't seem to be too busy anyway. And if there is no shaman in the village, there could be a quest to find another shaman, perform a ritual, and get some token which would serve as a proof than the player character is not guilty.

There already is quest to find out one kind of criminal (bird thief), so it wouldn't be out of character.
Title: Re: But that villager died
Post by: UniversalRanger on July 29, 2019, 12:33:59 PM
I'm afraid time won't heal the villagers feelings in regards to non-returning companions, but this is not a bug either, it's just a way it is, and I'll move the thread at suggestions.

Adding mechanisms to tell the NPCs what really happened is tricky, and still even if the companions would die fairly I don't know if villagers still should always be like "He died when hunting with you? Ok, we don't mind that, here have a another hunting assistant, we wish him better luck than the previous. Hehe."   :D

This is something to tweak/ponder in the future, but there's not an easy way to find a good consensus.

I'm still very newb on this, and am really just focusing on surviving the winter. I was able to find a village with a fine fishing rod.
Also, I'm appologize if this is an outdated discussion at this point, but I would like to contribute my two cents.

You guys already have a system of knowing where a person is hit and the types of injury sustained. Depending on where the injuries are located, and the types of injuries sustained, the village elders or shaman could have a chance of thinking that the player is in some way responsible, directly responsible, likely not responsible, or not at all responsible. That could of course be influenced by current reputation with the village. For example, if they basically regard you as a demigod hero, the Shaman or village elder/s could see a gaping axe-wound in the back, stripped of all gear, blood your hands and and axe, that your axe-blade fits perfectly the wound shape and size, his gear in your inventory, and still think it wasn't your fault, and maybe even have a chance of improving relations further depending on speech skills or something.

I like Saiko Kila's idea of requiring a quest to prove your innocence. If you're not actually innocent though, perhaps upon finishing the quest, you only manage to prove your guilt . . . unless of course the spirits really like you and are willing to lie for you. Side note on that. You could make evil spirits that tend to try and help evil players, perhaps while also penalizing them in other various ways. Perhaps if the player is evil for long enough, the evil spirits decide it's time to kill him for their own pleasure and send some kind of hellish beast after him that if he manages to kill it, they continue helping him, or perhaps it impresses the good spirits who then decide to give him an ultimatum, serve good or die for his crimes. If he decides good, then they send him on a quest for atonement first. Then they send him to a monk's sanctuary where he is to devote his life to good, learning to fight, and to serve the good spirits in various quests. If he refuses, perhaps the good spirits send one of their righteous monks to take him out, so he has a chance of still defeating him and remaining evil if the player wants to do that.

Anyway, off that tangent, that's all I have to say.

Title: Re: But that villager died
Post by: flibbo on August 05, 2019, 11:33:47 AM
I'm afraid time won't heal the villagers feelings in regards to non-returning companions, but this is not a bug either, it's just a way it is, and I'll move the thread at suggestions.

Adding mechanisms to tell the NPCs what really happened is tricky, and still even if the companions would die fairly I don't know if villagers still should always be like "He died when hunting with you? Ok, we don't mind that, here have a another hunting assistant, we wish him better luck than the previous. Hehe."   :D

This is something to tweak/ponder in the future, but there's not an easy way to find a good consensus.

Maybe going a little off topic from some people's points of view but I think this is related to the issue (personally I consider it an issue at least) that there is no "respawn" mechanic at all in the game - any NPC villager and even any buyable animal that dies is dead for good, they are never replaced even if your character lives for decades. I realize this is a large task but I think a respawning in some way or another is needed. It doesn't have to be a typical respawn the likes of WoW or other mainstream games of course where any dead creature is basically replaced right away, give it a really long time frame that you feel is appropriate. I never kill NPCs or domestic animals on purpose, every time it happens it's an accident and to always think about that they are never replaced is very harsh. Sometimes it's even completely out of your power, I had villages being attacked by bears and even bands of robbers seemingly out of nowhere, each time several villagers died and I knew that basically this village's population was culled forever, even if my character got to live for 100 years. Perhaps this can be combined with a proper aging system where village children actually grow up to be adults and new children can be born. Also migration of NPCs between different villages or between vilages and the wilds (how likely is it that the NPCs we see represent everyone that lives in Finland anyway?) would make for a credible reason for moving or creating new NPCs. As it is, in this regard UrW is very static right now, this is a little unfortunate and also gives rise to OP's issue.

What I am getting at is that companion deaths could be addressed at the same time and it would be appropriate to do that. I understand that simply hiring people only to kill them and take their stuff over and over again would be a very cheesy way of playing the game that probably shouldn't be allowed, although personally I never felt the need to play in such ways. But banning a new companion hire for all eternity from that village when one happens to die is pretty severe too. You could find a middle ground, like having to wait several years for the villagers to eventually "forget" and trust you again, tying it to some respawn event with a long timeframe happening or something like that. Or maybe have the character build up a kind of reputation with the village and its neighbours for hirable companions - you hire someone, everything goes well, you pay them and go your separate ways and your reputation goes up. The companion goes "missing" on the other hand or you refuse to pay - your rep goes down. Maybe somewhat forgivable the first time (with a hiring price hit?) but if it keeps happening the people will mistrust you and refuse to go with you. Combine it with a long-term "reputation decay" method (in both directions) and things should be fine.
Title: Re: But that villager died
Post by: PALU on August 05, 2019, 02:36:53 PM
Replacing NPCs and livestock isn't a huge issue currently, as most characters aren't played for even a single decade. However, if marriage, families, and the ability to play an offspring is implemented, there's a need to "restock" the villages at least for each new character generation (given that the parent probably died when the kid was at a single digit age, a time skip might allow for village population replacements through their kids growing up and new kids produced (and some old geezers kicking the bucket).

That said, robber quests are risky business, and villagers hired to participate do die in these clashes, causing a slow decline in the number of villages from which you can recruit (and the more villages lost, the more villagers die, as you have to settle for those who are willing to come with you, rather than those most suitable for battle).
Title: Re: But that villager died
Post by: Labtop 215 on August 07, 2019, 09:12:32 PM
I occasionally stumble across people in the wilderness.  Isn't it possible to hire them to help you?  At little risk since if they die, they aren't associated with a village?
Title: Re: But that villager died
Post by: PALU on August 08, 2019, 09:15:37 AM
I believe you can hire people you meet in the wilderness in principle (excluding Njerps, of course), but I also believe they usually decline.
Title: Re: But that villager died
Post by: flibbo on August 08, 2019, 10:15:17 AM
I believe you can hire people you meet in the wilderness in principle (excluding Njerps, of course), but I also believe they usually decline.

You can, I did it once but obv. it's not very reliable.