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UnReal World => Gameplay questions => Topic started by: Kaleva on February 25, 2018, 11:21:04 AM

Title: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: Kaleva on February 25, 2018, 11:21:04 AM
I dont know how to deal with the robbers, who come in groups of 3 and you cant shoot before the stupid conversation the player character just stands there until they introduce themselves. Then they stab me, take my stuff and stab my dog and Ive spent hours of gameplay and its a sudden end.
Problem is you cant run away before they are right next to the PC.
Disapointing.
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: koteko on February 25, 2018, 11:54:34 AM
I've been having my newest characters bothered a lot by robbers, too. But to be honest I've kind of appreciated it - the game was a bit too easy, and now I got to survive winter half-naked and with a stone knife and stone axe (luckily my cabin was done!). It can be a very frustrating setback if you like the character though. Still better than a njerpez kill..

One thing though: I always hit them first now, after unsuccessfully trying to run away. Haven't had the "conversation" with them in a long time. Maybe you don't have an arrow/javelin wielded, or they are too close to you? I'm not sure why you wouldn't be able to do a ranged hit when they approach.
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: PALU on February 25, 2018, 12:56:53 PM
Robbers come in groups of 3 to 6. I usually manage to get away (I never walk up to an "adventurer" on the overland map, but rather zoom in and walk towards the location, so I usually see them as the appear in the distance, and can zoom out and leave).
I haven't had any problem with shooting them first (which I do on robber quests once I have located them and gathered a posse [nobody but my character may use a missile weapon]). You may be able to run, but they're fast runners. Once they've got you, the best thing is to yield, in which case they steal your good stuff, but won't hurt you or your dog (and I think it may be possible to cheat by dropping your good stuff on the ground and pick it up after they've told you to run). If you fight (and don't have backup) they typically manage to beat you into unconsciousness (and sometimes death), steal your good stuff, kill your dog (unless it somehow managed to flee) and dump you half dead somewhere.
It's possible to kill robbers with hit and run tactics, but it's extremely hard without a fast character (and very hard with one).
If you run into them in hyperspace and are yanked out of hyper warp yes, they'll be right on top of you as you're zoomed in.
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: Kaleva on February 25, 2018, 01:01:06 PM
Thanks for fast answer.
Another thing, my dogs keep disappearing when hunting. They chase the game until both of them disappear until forever.
A bug?
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: JEB Davis on February 25, 2018, 03:22:17 PM
snip... (and I think it may be possible to cheat by dropping your good stuff on the ground and pick it up after they've told you to run). ... snip
Have you (or anyone else) been able to do this successfully? The only time I tried it was in Mik's story, and it certainly did not work for him.
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: PALU on February 25, 2018, 04:48:57 PM
snip... (and I think it may be possible to cheat by dropping your good stuff on the ground and pick it up after they've told you to run). ... snip
Have you (or anyone else) been able to do this successfully? The only time I tried it was in Mik's story, and it certainly did not work for him.
I've had one case where I was able to pick up the stuff later (after healing up and killing the robbers, I think) and another when I wasn't.  I think the case where I was successful was one where my character resisted and possibly tried to flee. Anyway, the character was at least some bit away from the dropped stuff when they managed to beat him unconscious.

Also, the beggar tactics is useful for robber quests, i.e. leave your good stuff at the homestead and wear/use second rate stuff (e.g. taken from Njerps and robbers). If you can't get away from the robbers, yield and let them take whatever junk they want, if any. The last time I tried it they did take my woolen mitten, though, as I'd screwed up my character outfit (the also took some expendable tool, so I had to return back to the homestead to reequip, as those robbers weren't the ones I was looking for, but ones found on the way and investigated carelessly as the outfit was suitable for yielding).

After having lost a dog to a reindeer I don't send dogs after prey... Following the tracks ought to eventually lead you to the dog ('s remains) I think. I believe this situation is what the hunting horn is for, though: to all on your dog(s) when they're too far away to hear you (UrW dogs seem to have their hearing reduced to human levels).
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: Kaleva on February 25, 2018, 07:58:28 PM
Hunting horn? Never seen that in the game.
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: trento007 on February 25, 2018, 09:18:53 PM
http://unrealworld.wikia.com/wiki/Hunting_Horn

I will usually make sure to let two dogs loose to chase after larger animals as even a single kick of an elk (or similar) can wound your dog to the point of unconsciousness, and if particularly aggressive it will continue to kill your dog. The second dog can stop this or provide enough threat to allow a wounded dog to retreat. Often times dogs will not be fast enough  to chase them down or will get outmaneuvered in dense forests, so it is advisable only let dogs go after prey that you have already wounded which will then have a more difficult time escaping. Otherwise you risk your dog running off in who knows what direction and having little tracks to follow, losing your dog. Although in my experience most of the dogs that have gotten lost linger in the area and with enough searching you should be able to find them nearby.
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: Roheline on February 26, 2018, 05:08:31 AM
The hunting horn isn't super common, but I have encountered them in game, and they're surprisingly cheap!

I did actually try it out once after my dogs had run off and didn't seem to hear my calls, and the dogs returned soon after. Whether it was the horn or they happened to be coming back anyway I don't know. I'll need to do more testing.
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: Dungeon Smash on February 26, 2018, 05:40:07 AM
would be cool to be able to craft your own hunting horn, after butchering a bull or a ram
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: Kaleva on February 26, 2018, 06:22:24 PM
About the robbers,
Do they intrude to my settlement eventually?
Should I hide some backup tools/stuff?
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: PALU on February 26, 2018, 09:03:52 PM
About the robbers,
Do they intrude to my settlement eventually?
Should I hide some backup tools/stuff?
Not "eventually", but they can enter "randomly", although Njerps are much more common. I.e., they don't home in on your settlement.
You can actually use the opposite tactics (I think): leave a huge, heavy pile of weapons for them to take, and they might get so loaded down that they're a lot easier to kill. I believe that's why my (old and long dead) character survived when robbers came around, actually.
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: Kaleva on March 02, 2018, 08:15:03 PM
ok thanks for the help

new problem:
I am told that there is a treasúre in Artreitti in spruce mire island. Am in the only spruce mire island in the artreitti but there is no 3 big rocks forming a triangle at all. is it possible that the treasure and the three Stones ran out of time/ expired? it took many days to reach the destination anyways.
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: PALU on March 02, 2018, 09:40:49 PM
No, treasure rewards are not quests, and do not expire. However, I think it's possible for someone else randomly stumble upon the treasure and take it (I've heard it's possible for PCs to find treasures without having been told about them. Even if someone has taken the treasure the stones would still stand (and I assume there would be a hole in the ground).
Note that these triangles are just large enough to fit a tile in, i.e.
.B.
B.B
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: Kaleva on March 03, 2018, 10:02:57 AM
Ive played the same mission succesfully several times but now there is simple no big rocks forming a triangle. It says boulders, i guess thats big rocks.

EDIT; broken arrow. Trash?
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: Kaleva on March 07, 2018, 10:21:59 AM
The robbers show up eventually and rob everything. There is no point playing. I am disappointed time after time. Can you put option to exclude the robbers.

Imagine if in FIFA football game you would lead late in the game By several goals and the game would randomize you to lose for no reason.

Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: trento007 on March 10, 2018, 04:29:02 AM
Well, you may want to try having save-states by copy/pasting the folder with your character's name into a different location.

Broken arrows are useless, maybe add them to your campfire. There are different types of rocks, a rock weighing 1 pound, a stone weighing 15 pounds, and a boulder that is not able to be picked up. The type you are looking for in the quest is the boulder that cannot be removed from its location.
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: MrMotorhead on March 11, 2018, 01:51:06 AM
I agree robbers are pretty harsh.  I really wish they showed up differently on the overland map, where you could see that there are multiple figures instead of just looking like a single guy who is gonna give you a quest to lead him back to a village.  I'd rather not have them disabled, but maybe if some areas of the map were safer than others, that would be a good solution.  My first guy was ruined by robbers, I think because he was too slow to run away, he could only move 5 km/h, my new guy can hit 8km/h and I had no trouble running away from them.

Thankfully they never seem to track you down when you're zoomed in.  Can you imagine how bad it would be if you were making a shelter or tanning a hide and they just walked right up behind you.

Here is a picture of my current character with his posse upon finishing the homeland robbers quest.
(https://i.imgur.com/iTIjD5Z.jpg)

Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: JEB Davis on March 11, 2018, 04:02:43 AM
...snip...
Thankfully they never seem to track you down when you're zoomed in.  Can you imagine how bad it would be if you were making a shelter or tanning a hide and they just walked right up behind you.
They can do this. If you like, check Mik's story (page 4, Reply#55 on Feb.14th)

"There is a new cave to explore, it's early morning and still dark and Mik is gathering branches to make a torch. Suddenly, a man moves into view quickly approaching and he doesn't seem friendly! Mik begins running away but he was already somewhat fatigued because of the nearly knee-deep snow and can't outrun the man, who was joined by another carrying a bow."
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: Dungeon Smash on March 11, 2018, 05:51:56 PM
I agree robbers are pretty harsh.  I really wish they showed up differently on the overland map, where you could see that there are multiple figures instead of just looking like a single guy who is gonna give you a quest to lead him back to a village.  I'd rather not have them disabled, but maybe if some areas of the map were safer than others, that would be a good solution.
i definitely agree with this.  honestly, i'd prefer if the robbers were re-vamped completely and made to be less hostile.  as it stands, it basically seems to be a "survivor tax", since running into them is almost unavoidable on a long enough time frame, and combat is very rarely feasible. 

but, if we must have robbers in the game, your suggestion certainly makes more sense than the current situation.  certainly your survivor would be able to differentiate between one "human-shaped figure" and 5 or 6.  even if the graphic can't support this, the description could make it clear when you "look" at them.
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: PALU on March 11, 2018, 06:57:37 PM
Robbers rob. That's what they do (and did historically). If you won't yield they make you. The unrealistic part is that they don't kill you if you manage to seriously harm or kill any of their number, as that's what robbers typically do in retaliation.

However, I agree they're a pain because if the (improved but still) broken combat mechanics where any missile equipped companion will be as great a danger to your group as the enemies are (but still a bit of a threat to the robbers). It also doesn't help that it's so blastedly hard to round up a posse to deal with them, as 90 % of those asked to help you won't (including more or less everyone employed earlier), and it gets progressively harder as villagers get killed.
It doesn't make sense that the villages give you a quest to deal with robbers, but then have everyone refuse to help you deal with the threat.

It would help if you could report robber presence to villagers and thus generate a quest to deal with them (together with helping you with providing people to do so).

Being able to see that they're multiples rather than singles certainly would help as well. I treat every "adventurer" as a potential robber gang (and the same as Njerps) and try to move to the tile next to them and then move in gradually to find tracks, skipping any such threats in spruce infested terrain as I'm unlikely to see them in time to zoom out and retreat.
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: Kaleva on March 15, 2018, 10:20:04 AM
Robbers rob. That's what they do (and did historically). If you won't yield they make you. The unrealistic part is that they don't kill you if you manage to seriously harm or kill any of their number, as that's what robbers typically do in retaliation.


it is a Computer game. If the player keeps getting frustrating set backs that are unavoidable, the game sucks. This applies to all games in the world. No matter what happened historically. Good game feels fair.

Even with 3 dogs I didnt get alert in zoomed-out map of 5 robbers, how realistic is that?
They were allready on my face and the game zoomed in. Couldnt run away.

I totally agree with it being a "survivor tax". Becouse of that I dont play URW anymore.
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: PALU on March 15, 2018, 12:30:59 PM
You can't really make robbers less aggressive ("You don't want to hand over your stuff!? OK, get lost then!" would make for very poor robbers (in two senses of the word)).

You can do other things, such as reducing their frequency, reducing the size of the groups (2-4?), increasing the chances of detecting them so you can avoid them (a bit unrealistic as robbers you can easily avoid won't rob many, but could be argued for in the name of "game balance", or could be a game setup parameter).

In terms of it being a "survival tax", there aren't exactly huge amounts of sinks for your wealth... You can get your gear back by recruiting a posse and kill the robbers, but that carries a cost that's probably higher than the losses to the robbery itself (but masterworks equipment is hard to come by, and getting rid of a some of those Njerp weapons you've collected probably doesn't come as a problem).

How realistic is it that a group of robbers looking for travelers are able to set up an ambush for spotted travelers without being detected? Fairly realistic, I'd say (fortunately, I don't have any real life experience of it). Real world robber victims often get robbed through ambush. The robbers hide and one of them steps out into the path of the victim while the others surround the victim.
The unrealistic part here is UrW's zoomed out map travel and that NPCs don't know how to hide, so the ambushing is abstracted. Also, real world robbers tend not to try to rob heavily armed groups of travelers outnumbering them, while UrW robbers fall into that counter trap every time (once you've found them).

Different games have different target audiences. UrW is not aimed at the power fantasy fans, but more towards the simulation/rogue like audience. Life isn't fair, and nor are those kind of games. That said, the games shouldn't be overly unfair, at least not without a good reason.

In terms of unexpected encounters, I'd take robbers over bears, wolves, and Njerps any day. I've had characters killed by wolves and Njerps, but never by robbers (badly beaten, yes, but I had a choice in fighting them). With bears I've been lucky (my current character survived with serious injuries as the bear attacked (and killed) the newly purchased dog, allowing my character to crawl away (literally)).
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: JEB Davis on March 15, 2018, 09:58:46 PM
Even with 3 dogs I didnt get alert in zoomed-out map of 5 robbers, how realistic is that?
They were allready on my face and the game zoomed in. Couldnt run away.

I totally agree with it being a "survivor tax". Becouse of that I dont play URW anymore.

Contrast this with how easy it is to get close to animals when encountering them on the world map and you see this works both ways. In your favor with the animals, in the robbers' favor in the other case.

Life isn't fair sometimes, and this is a game that attempts to simulate life. Look on the bright side: the robbers don't kill you if you don't fight them. In r/l this is not necessarily the case, so the game is actually being too nice.
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: primuspaul on March 29, 2018, 05:37:38 AM
How do you get "robbed?" Is that a special mission event? I encounter, Finns, Njerps, and foreign traders on the overland map. Only the Njerps are immediately hostile, and even then not always.
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: Privateer on March 29, 2018, 06:41:08 AM
How do you get "robbed?" Is that a special mission event? I encounter, Finns, Njerps, and foreign traders on the overland map. Only the Njerps are immediately hostile, and even then not always.

 Robbers, they also roam the world
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: PALU on March 29, 2018, 08:23:59 AM
Robbers come in groups of 3-6 and are of any of the Finnish tribes (vagabonds is particular, I think). Typically you run into them when traveling on the overland map as e.g. running into a Njerp, but sometimes you can see them in the distance, where they look like a single adventurer.
There is a special mission to eliminate robbers, but you can encounter them without a mission (and that's a fair bit more common, in my experience). I think the robber mission is exclusive to members of the same tribe (i.e. your character has to be of the same tribe as the quest giver, and you probably have to be well known).
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: Bakkat on March 29, 2018, 06:32:36 PM
@Kaleva

    I recall once i had a streak where my characters always were getting robbed.
Some young ones and others with more in-game time as well.

   Once i got robbed 3 times while travelling straight south. The third time they said to me something like "You've got nothing worthy, so go away quickly".

   Most died over starvation and the rest seriously wounded trying to fight.

   The point is that i stopped playing the game for a while and then played it back.
   Got more than ten characters since then in many areas and different "professions" as well. No sight of robbers.

Edit:
 
Spoiler: show
Also facing death is something that changes over time. The first times i played i got really upset when my character died. It seemed a lot of effort for nothing, just a simple page in the ancestors that didn't reflect all the energy i've had spent on the character.
  Then, after a while, you realize that death is part of life, part of the game. It's great that the game doesn't have Save & Load stuff. You could have lost a great cabbin, masterpiece objects, a lot of skills upgrade, etc, etc, but you take it differently. Mostly learn from them, that fight back 5 robbers it's quite suicidal or that going after an sleeping bear could end with a lucky hit in the head and a brand great bear fur or it's the recklessly thing you can do. After a while each character's death it's part of their story. There will be great characters to remember, and others not so.

  Finally, you could do as previously advice, get a back-up folder each time you quit the game.
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: primuspaul on March 30, 2018, 03:52:44 AM
@Kaleva

    I recall once i had a streak where my characters always were getting robbed.
Some young ones and others with more in-game time as well.

   Once i got robbed 3 times while travelling straight south. The third time they said to me something like "You've got nothing worthy, so go away quickly".

   Most died over starvation and the rest seriously wounded trying to fight.

   The point is that i stopped playing the game for a while and then played it back.
   Got more than ten characters since then in many areas and different "professions" as well. No sight of robbers.

Edit:
 
Spoiler: show
Also facing death is something that changes over time. The first times i played i got really upset when my character died. It seemed a lot of effort for nothing, just a simple page in the ancestors that didn't reflect all the energy i've had spent on the character.
  Then, after a while, you realize that death is part of life, part of the game. It's great that the game doesn't have Save & Load stuff. You could have lost a great cabbin, masterpiece objects, a lot of skills upgrade, etc, etc, but you take it differently. Mostly learn from them, that fight back 5 robbers it's quite suicidal or that going after an sleeping bear could end with a lucky hit in the head and a brand great bear fur or it's the recklessly thing you can do. After a while each character's death it's part of their story. There will be great characters to remember, and others not so.

  Finally, you could do as previously advice, get a back-up folder each time you quit the game.

You should be able to handle robbers if you take spear skill. Then just make some javelin as soon as the game starts. I did this and was actually able to clear out a Njerp village with barely any armor while starving no less.
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: PALU on March 30, 2018, 09:10:22 AM
Only extreme characters can take on robbers single handedly without resorting to extreme tactics.

A basically unarmored suicidal character has to be extremely lucky to wipe out a Njerp village without getting hit by bow wielding ones, or run down and get pinned by civilians until the warriors show up. Of course, it's not particularly hard if you're using extreme save scumming, but that's playing UrW in a way it isn't designed to be played, and thus isn't balanced for. A very fast character can use speed to whittle opponents down to wheezing bags of exhaustion, but still can't outpace an arrow (although bow wielders can be kept at a safe distance, you need to go in for the kill at some time).
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: primuspaul on March 30, 2018, 09:42:30 PM
Only extreme characters can take on robbers single handedly without resorting to extreme tactics.

A basically unarmored suicidal character has to be extremely lucky to wipe out a Njerp village without getting hit by bow wielding ones, or run down and get pinned by civilians until the warriors show up. Of course, it's not particularly hard if you're using extreme save scumming, but that's playing UrW in a way it isn't designed to be played, and thus isn't balanced for. A very fast character can use speed to whittle opponents down to wheezing bags of exhaustion, but still can't outpace an arrow (although bow wielders can be kept at a safe distance, you need to go in for the kill at some time).
In that particular case I actually managed to take out the village on a first try. As soon as a Njerp sees you, you just start backtracking and counterattacking. I almost always land a good hit to an enemy the first counterattack, provided I'm not badly injured or weighed down. The thing about Njerps is they always seem to rush you when they see you. As long as you only retreat by walking and only attack by counterattacking (with the exception of a few javelin throws), it seems you never accumulate any fatigue. That means all the Njerps will be tired when they reach you.

Of course I will repeat that you absolutely need great Spear skill, which isn't hard with a Kaumo. I think I had 80%.

I don't remember what I did with the bowman that time. Maybe that particular village didn't have one. I do remember their attack was a bit disorganized with some Njerps fleeing and others attacking. They never did surround me because every single move I made was backwards (and anyone who caught up with me ate a javelin counterstrike). They really only gain on you while they're fresh. Once they tire, their running speed slows below your walking speed.
Title: Re: Robbers ruin my early game
Post by: PALU on March 30, 2018, 10:19:19 PM
Well, you need a fair bit of luck for them to never land a hit on their attacks since you didn't avoid them, but I did read the game info on counter attacks the other day, and it seems you have a chance of completely preempt enemy attacks with it if you're sufficiently superior (I've never used counterattack at any time). Still, it's lucky never to take a hit, and once you start doing so, everything goes downhill as the injury reduces your movement rate as well as your effective weapon skill. The you take another hit,...
Furthermore, you need a FAST character to keep enemies from catching up with you. At least 7, and probably 8 km/h.
At 8 km/h only the unarmored civilians were able to catch up with my Njerp killer Kaumo (a dozen or so villages before the inevitable death initiated by an unlucky injury followed by the downhill spiral).