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Bug reports / Re: Of Wolf and Woman
« Last post by Sami on Today at 10:31:47 AM »
Heh, a good example about the beauty and challenge of procedurally generated quests.
Of course the main intention with the quests is that they can be solved, but also in a living, procedurally generated world there are countless variables which may interfere - and also sometimes make them impossible to complete.

This case is something we can address, and I'll check up on that, but also NPC hunters might end up in killing the wolf. Or if it would choose to chase an elk, a good hoof kick might sometimes also prove fatal. And so on. This way the procedurally generated quests differ quite a bit from more commonly used static, linear game quests which follow the plot in more predicatable (and boring) fashion.
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So we don't matter to you?

Just a "small bunch".

Huh? Honestly, I can't quite see where this comes from. So let's take an another look at what has been said and what has not been said:



In any case, separate menu seems to get support from this small bunch of thread participants.


To me this does not sound derogatory, not at all. When Sami says "this small bunch of thread participants" I read it as saying:

OK, earlier there was a mention that there have been 524 downloads for the mod, so let's assume that as a guideline to estimate the number of users. And then we have 6 members of the modding community participating in this thread. That means we have heard the opinion of 1.2% of the modding community.
[EDIT: while I was writing this we got the 7th voice, PALUs opinion]

Is 1.2% a small bunch? Is six persons a small bunch? Or should that somehow be felt as an insult, a way of saying "your opinion does not matter?" Honestly, sounds a bit off to me. And, the "ouch you hurt my feelings!" is always a tricky path to walk along - if one chooses to do it, then it probably would also be beneficial to start with spelling correctly the name of lead developer. It is only four letters, so shouldn't be that hard to spell, so if one constantly writes it in a wrong way, should that be taken as a sign of ignorance, derogatory gesture of non-mattering? Does not sound very constructive to me, better just focus on the actual facts that have been said, and work on the subject matter itself.

So, what we have then, at the moment:

- a suggestion to add a separate hotkey to bring up only the modded crafting recipes
- roughly 5 members saying that they support the idea
- one member saying that it would not be so very important for them, as they prefer to just update the mod code themselves to adapt to the new versions of UrW
- Sami signaling that he is still open to consider the idea, just saying that to implement it would take some extra work on his part - and that the amount of that extra work is probably a bit more than just a few lines of code.

What we do NOT know:

1. of the 518 mod users who have not commented in this thread, how many of them see that an extra hotkey would solve their problems
2. and how many of them see that the top priority should be just to have the mod actively maintained, so that it would stay compatible with the new versions of UrW

And the way I understand it, Sami mentioning about "small bunch" is a reference to the situation 1. - scientifically speaking, critically thinking, we have no way of knowing if our gallup of 6 people out of 524 gives an accurate representation of the general public mood or not. Not saying that the voice of 6 people does not matter, not insisting that it is not aligned with the majority. Just reminding that given the current evidence we can make an educated guess, not knowing for certain. And there is nothing wrong with it - in any case life is mostly about making decisions based on uncertain evidence.

Lastly, to me it still looks like that even in the case Sami added that extra hotkey to the vanilla game, it would not do very much to solve the situation 2, which probably needs to be addressed separately - at least if in the modding community there are people who care enough about large mods like BAC to maintain the mods. But if it so happens that there is no active modder to maintain a mod, then that just is the way things are at the moment? But, personally I see that mods matter, and modders matter, and modders matter to other modders, so it would seem rather natural that this leads to mods being maintained and updated to stay aligned with the new versions of the game.




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Yes, I think a separate space for mods would be quite useful.

When mod functionality gets implemented into the game, mods ought to phase the mod version(s) out, and it would be useful if the mods then contained "translation" recipes for a transition period. Mod maintainers have limited amount of time available, though, so what's desirable might not be what's reasonable at all times.

Mostly it's up to the mod maintainers to adapt to the changes in the game, but a mod space seems like a reasonable game support (when "resources" are available to provide it).

I don't think it would hurt for the developers to look at mods occasionally to get some additional perspective on intended new functionality. Not as "this is how it has to be", but rather to provide aspects they may not have thought of. Also, a proper implementation would not be restricted by the same constraints mods have. However, the developers obviously have to manage their time, and looking at mods may well end up in the "no time for this now" bucket constantly.
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Bry, I think you missed the joke in the recipe. 5minutes with %50% skill boost and 0 effort too. I half expected it also to include [phys:stance]
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Bug reports / Of Wolf and Woman
« Last post by JP_Finn on May 10, 2024, 11:57:35 PM »
Not sure if intentional, but seems like the wolf spawned for the quest, might end up dying anyways... when it spawns on river, during Swidden's thinning ice.

Character got to the area, heard wolf howl NE, while on the wrong side of river. I waited for some days, and the river cleared. Went looking for the wolf for several days, but no tracks, no howls. Lo and behold, it'd gotten (or spawned) on thin ice and drowned.

I do not have a usable save to try and recreate this.
Animals tend to stay away of water, maybe have them stay off thin ice too? Very least don't have them spawn on thin ice.

Edit: Made it back to the village, there's no option to tell the woman that the wolf is dead.
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In any case, separate menu seems to get support from this small bunch of thread participants.
But it really doesn't happen just like this:
.Modders Make Menu. "Make menu" [effort:0] *CODING* %50%  /5m/
{Make menu}


You asked for the modding community input.

So we don't matter to you?

Just a "small bunch".
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Suggestions / Re: Make Menu only for Modded items = saving BAC and other large mods
« Last post by Sami on May 10, 2024, 11:02:02 AM »
Good to hear more discussion and opinions on this matter.
There seem to be some differencies in how people perceive the modifications working in the game world, and from devs point of view it gets a few more extra layers and viewpoints to it.

To pinpoint it; modding code modifies the existing elements, more or less. It can't modify the properties the items don't have, or to add game mechanics that don't exist. For example, items have a name, and it can be modified to anything at all, but naming cat a dog doesn't make it essentially a dog. Nevertheless, lots of things and stuff to do can be created with the modding code.

With the above in mind, one must understand that even with a separate key or limitless mod entry space the player confusion with mod created items may continue happen when new mechanics are introduced. For example, if there are modded hafts or items put together from modded heads and hafts, they aren't working as genuine multi-part hafted items in the game. (I don't know actually how the game might deal with such but maybe the hafts won't wear out, the proper head doesn't drop when the item breaks, and so on.) Confusion and frustration may follow as players who aren't into modding will have to deal with the oddly and wrongly working items. It's not a problem for those who are aware of the modding and it's underlying mechanics, and maybe can even convert items as in Plotinus's example, but with the public mods who get into hands of average players the remedy or regarding information in these cases is best to come quickly.

Surely, a separate modding make menu will make things (also updating) easier and also keep the original and modified entries nicely separate. But it may be that for an average player who's used to create modded item A from, say a new Modders Make menu, they may fail to notice it having appeared as a genuine game feature or item to the original Make menu. So the confusion and game mechanics incompatibility with the modded items is evident to happen to some extent from time to time, even if there was limitless space. But it's ok when it's remembered, understood and addressed clearly to the mod users when necessary.

In any case, separate menu seems to get support from this small bunch of thread participants.
But it really doesn't happen just like this:
.Modders Make Menu. "Make menu" [effort:0] *CODING* %50%  /5m/
{Make menu}

;)
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Ah thanks.

I'm not asking for changes to the "B" build but the crafting "M" make due to the overlapping that is now happening as Saami adds crafting creating duplicates to what has been possible in the game for in some cases over 10 years. Craft menu space is needed.

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Bug reports / Re: Grinding flour
« Last post by Plotinus on May 10, 2024, 06:46:33 AM »
my work flow is to have two bags, always grind into the empty one, and pour into the fuller one, which works to avoid this, but it'd be nice if the game could do the math for me.
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Bug reports / Grinding flour
« Last post by JP_Finn on May 09, 2024, 08:08:41 PM »
This one has been around for a while, finally decided to report it.

When you have a bag, or other container of grain/seeds/roots, with over ~4lbs of produce in it, and choose to grind in to a container that has less capacity than 4 lbs; you use 4 lbs of grain, and only get the maximum capacity's worth of flour.

e.g. grind barley from full bag, choose a birchbark box as target. 4lbs of barley will be used and yet you'll only get 2lbs of flour.

Choosing 2 or more stacked containers, with enough capacity to hold 4 lbs of flour; only one container will be used, the other(s) stay empty in the inventory.

Expectation here is that:
  • grinding would only use grain/seed/roots in the capacity the receiving container can hold.
  • Use multiple containers to receive the 4lbs grinding output.
  • Prompt for "How much grain/seed/roots to grind?"
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