Topic: Rotting Warning  (Read 3754 times)


« on: December 24, 2017, 01:05:44 AM »
Would it be possible to have warnings before things rot? I was just tanning an elk skin and it's a real pain to arrive back only to find you are an hour too late and it is rotten.

Perhaps this could work as follows:

You select an item and request that a warning be delivered to the chatbox just before that item rots. Perhaps this could also work for smoking meat, for example.

Privateer

« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2017, 04:58:25 AM »
OR you could look at the item and it tells you when you can continue.
Survival is also about managing your time.

PALU

« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2017, 12:08:03 PM »
You need to process things in a timely manner, as Privateer said. Trying to pick things that are still processed up gives you information on when they will be ready, so you can check how long it's left (but you don't get that info by looking at them, so you have to go to the location).

It's not possible to warn you about rotting of meat (at least, and probably of furs as well) because there's a significant random factor involved, so each morning when the day ticks over there's a chance things will degrade, but there's also a chance it will not, so it's not known beforehand (You can see that clearly by having several different pieces of meat acquired at the same time that degrade at different rates. While cooking, for instance, left over partial pieces may degrade slower than the whole pieces it used to stack with, despite the stack being left in the cool cellar all the time, while the one used for cooking was kept in the inventory by the fire at least during the cooking process).

Also note that degradation happens in steps, so meat first goes stale, and fur/skin degrades one level. This means that by the time the skin rots it has already degraded in steps down to harsh.

« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2017, 02:18:39 PM »
Thanks for the replies. I don't want to sound like I'm not willing to put in effort, keep track of timing, etc. Of course, I do all that and enjoy it, to some extent. But it is frustrating when it doesn't work out from a gameplay perspective. You can spend a lot of time hunting a stag, say, and finally kill it only for a minor oversight to ruin an hour (e.g.) of play. Thank you for the info about random factors and degrading. I'm pretty new to the game.

I'm not sure I'm doing hideworking correctly, based on what PALU says. I can pick up the "tanning skin" while it is still part-way through the process. This seems to interrupt the tanning and I have to do it again. The times declared also seem to be inaccurate. It often says things like, the skin will be ready by early morning, and I come back at this time and it's not ready. Late morning, still not ready. And so on.

PALU

« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2017, 02:37:29 PM »
I've never been able to pick up anything that's in a passive process (cooking, drying, tanning, ...) so that's odd. I haven't paid close attention to how well time ready message correlate to the actual finishing time, but I've seen the same fire displaying two different messages at least.
My basic process for elk hides is:
- Skin/butcher at the killing site. Haul everything back to the homestead and dump the meat in the cellar. Do as much hide preparation I can before going to bed (sometimes none, sometimes cleaning only, usually first tanning stage).
- Wake up, continue tanning.
- Handle meat, next step of tanning if I can, otherwise sleep again.
- Tan, do other stuff. If I follow the normal routine this will be the grueling bonking stage.
- Meat processing takes the back seat, done only when hide processing isn't required.

I don't think I've had hides degrade any time due to time spent using that schedule (tanning ineptitude is another matter).

« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2017, 03:04:40 PM »
I'm in the second stage of tanning, before the beating. I can pick it up. If I try and move to the beating stage, I can't. It takes me to the previous stage and the process seems to start from the beginning (tells me to wait until morning).

Edit: I tried it again, staying close to the skin. It says "harsh tanning stag skin". I know that I can't pick it up because then the whole thing will start again. I've saved the game as a backup to test that. So I leave it and do some fishing for an hour. I look at the skin again and it is rotten. Now, that's really harsh. I've installed Buoidda's Crafts mod. Could that be interfering somehow?
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 03:09:55 PM by afilmforthefuture »

Helldiver

« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2017, 03:28:24 PM »
Edit: I saw you posted a reply while I was writing mine. It sounds like there’s a problem with your game first and foremost. I would try removing the mod and starting a new savegame for testing purposes, first, as the mod seems like the most likely culprit.

I can pick up the "tanning skin" while it is still part-way through the process. This seems to interrupt the tanning and I have to do it again. The times declared also seem to be inaccurate. It often says things like, the skin will be ready by early morning, and I come back at this time and it's not ready. Late morning, still not ready. And so on.

It doesn’t necessarily sound like you’re doing anything wrong, because the game is allowing you to do things that should literally be impossible. I can never pick anything up during the tanning process, the game just tells me to come back later and won’t complete the action.

I apologize if the questions I’m about to ask seem insultingly obvious, but I am merely asking for troubleshooting purposes, just to rule out the most obvious causes.

  • You are tanning each skin a total of three times, correct? After you clean the skin with water, you should tan once with fat / bark to get a “tanning skin”, then a second time with water to get a “rinsed skin”, and a third time with a beater / stone to get a fur or leather. It’s only when the whole process is complete that you’re safe from quality dropping, and skipping any of these steps, or taking too long to move onto the next one will result in skin quality degrading in the interim.
  • Are you sure the time is actually off? If the skin is not ready at the time you expect, have you tried checking back, say, two in-game hours later? The reason I ask is because time in URW is divided into blocks, with each block having its own name (Like “after midnight”, “noon”, “early morning”, etc.) and if the game tells you that a process is “done by after midnight”, what they actually mean is that the process will be done at a point in time that falls within the “after midnight” block of time. They don’t mean “you can be sure that this process will be completed before midnight”, which is how a native speaker of American English would be most likely to understand the phrasing of that sentence. So to be sure, I would check a hide meant to be done “by after midnight” during “small hours”. It would be a delay of a few hours at most, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a skin’s quality degrade just because I left it a few extra hours after it was done.
  • The one exception to the “a couple of extra hours is no problem” general rule is soaking a hide to de-hair it, because I find hides left for too long in that stage DO go bad really fast. Are you sure you are performing this step only when you want to make leather, and not for every hide? (TBH, this is why I just buy a pig and slaughter it if I want leather, or just buy a leather good from the villages.)
  • How high is your hideworking skill? I have not really played a character with low hideworking skill before, so I am wondering if part of the reason the game is giving you inaccurate time estimates is because that’s what happens at a lower skill level?
  • Because you seem to be able to do things that the game just should not allow you to do, it sounds like there’s the possibility of a problem with your actual game. Which version are you playing? Do you use any mods, especially crafting mods?
[/i]

« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2017, 03:41:48 PM »
Thank you, Helldiver, I really appreciate it.

I think the first thing to do is for me to remove the mod and start a new game. But, in the meantime, for the record...

1. Yes. Three times. I'm at the "second time with water" stage.
2. Something is definitely wrong because I'm actually in the next phase (e.g. "noon") when it said it should be ready by early morning. As I understand it, that shouldn't be happening.
3. Yes, I understand the difference between making fur and leather and I have not de-haired the skin.
4. 84%
5. I'm on the latest version from the website. You might be right about the mod so I'll re-install and just start playing again. It's a shame because I've really lucked out on this playthrough but never mind... always learning :)

Helldiver

« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2017, 03:55:50 PM »
I just checked out the page for Buoidda’s mod, and it seems even the latest version of it is not up-to-date: for version 3.40b as opposed to the new 3.50b, or even the current stable version of 3.40.

It sucks to lose progress, definitely. :( But better than what you’ve been experiencing, which sounds like a total pain in the tuchus.

« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2017, 04:11:00 PM »
Thanks, Helldiver, if I still have problems I'll report back :)

Edit: It did indeed turn out to be the mod. I reinstalled without it and everything works fine now. I still think the warning system might be a good idea. I understand the RP aspect but I also wonder... what do people do to remember? I write it down in notepad. So why not have the game do that for you? I don't think it interrupts the RP side of things, just makes things less frustrating, and it could be an option you turn on in the game menu before playing.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 10:26:59 AM by afilmforthefuture »

PALU

« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2017, 11:24:52 AM »
I'm a bit surprised about Buiodda's Crafting mod being the cause, as I haven't (and do not have) a problem with it. For the beta versions all I've done (I think) is to remove the bone and antler extractions in the mod as they're included in the beta itself. However, I've done some additional changes to the mod myself (in 3.40), but I don't think any of those should be responsible for things seeming to work correctly.

However, things not working properly with the mod and working properly without seems to be a rather clear indication something in it or its installation did mess things up.

When it comes to warnings, it would certainly make sense to add a message in the Log similar to the ones you get for laying nets for dehairing, as that process takes quite some time. If so, the report ought to state when the process will finish (it's something like 5 days for an elk skin, so it's a fair while). I don't have much of a problem with drying and smoking, as the products don't seem to take much or any harm from being uncollected for some time (apart from the dog eating some of it).
To help me remember I have my homestead close to water and my tanning site sufficiently close to the cellar that I can see if there are skins tanning or not when I go to eat, except when it's quite dark. The morning routine includes eating and taking care of any skins that are under process as some of the first activities. That usually jogs the memory sufficiently to allow me to remember to check skins for further processing each time I eat (even if it's dark), and to plan activities based on whether there's any skin preparation needed.

« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2017, 10:46:54 PM »
I may have messed up the installation. I edited diy and biy to ORIGINAL_diy... as in the instructions but may have missed something.

I was quite early into my game so hadn't yet set up a settlement, etc. So my tanning location was just conveniently close to where I killed the animal. Anyway, I agree with you that some extra messages in the Log would make things easier generally. If I had the option to select which warnings to turn on and which to leave off, personally, I would turn them all on.

« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2017, 12:29:10 AM »
Sorry to post again. The problem is still there.

I left the skin to tan. I come back and can't pick it up. It says come back in a couple of hours. I come back and it says "fine tanning elk skin". I try to pick it up and I can pick it up. In my inventory I now have "fine tanning elk skin". I try to move to the next stage of tanning but I am back at the previous stage and it tells me to come back in the small hours. What is going on? I can look at it again and it says "fine rinsed elk skin (being prepared)".

Helldiver

« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2017, 01:02:04 AM »
Sorry to post again. The problem is still there.

I left the skin to tan. I come back and can't pick it up. It says come back in a couple of hours. I come back and it says "fine tanning elk skin". I try to pick it up and I can pick it up. In my inventory I now have "fine tanning elk skin". I try to move to the next stage of tanning but I am back at the previous stage and it tells me to come back in the small hours. What is going on? I can look at it again and it says "fine rinsed elk skin (being prepared)".

This sounds normal? As long as the process asked you to use water and not fat or bark in the second stage, you should be fine?

Can you use a beater on the rinsed skin now?

EDIT: Is the problem still that you are able to pick up the skin when you shouldn’t be able to? And I am not sure what you mean by “I am back at the previous stage”... if the flags for skin status keep changing (“tanning skin” —> “rinsed skin”) this sounds like everything is moving along fine, and not like you’re starting over from the beginning.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 01:24:44 AM by Helldiver »

« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2017, 01:21:49 AM »
No. I can pick it up before it is ready for the beating stage. I then have to go through the water stage again, seemingly with the clock re-starting. From what PALU was saying I shouldn't be able to pick it up.