Topic: Haft them axes, haft them spears  (Read 1746 times)


Sami

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« on: January 12, 2024, 06:19:14 PM »
Hafting of the axes and spears is underway. This is relatively complex and fundamendal addition and I guess we'll be putting out a new release when it's all finished.
There's still lots of work to do, but let's have a first sneak preview of the upcoming hafting mechanics.

So, axe and spear items now consist of two parts; heads and hafts. Haft refers to their wooden handle or shaft, which can break over time or upon damage.
When a haft breaks the separate head remains, and can be hafted again. Hafting is a process of attaching axe or spear head to a new haft, making it a complete working weapon again.

Now let's meet our test character Terhi and let her show how the hafting in UnReal World goes.


One day the haft of her trusty woodsman's axe broke leaving the head lying on the ground.
For all the different axes and spears their heads now also exist as separate items.
Blacksmiths still sell these weapons readily hafted, so the heads aren't commonly found until the axe or spear haft breaks.



Crafting the hafts and the process of hafting can be found from [M]ake menu under a new [H]afting category.
The first two options are used to craft a new haft, and the latter for actual hafting to assemble a working weapon with the head and the haft.
Terhi now proceeds to craft a new axe haft.



Both crafting the haft and hafting task itself requires CARPENTRY skills.  Terhi has managed to craft a fine axe haft, and then she proceeds to actual hafting.
In this list of hafting requirements there's a new "hammering tool" entry. Axe haft needs to be pounded tightly into the eye of the head, so a hammering tool is required.
The butt of another axe, if available, is the best option but you can do this hammering also with a club, solid firewood or even a stone.



The hafting is done and she managed to assemble a decent woodsman's axe. Let the timberwork continue!


The haft quality and success in hafting has significant impact on the finished axe or spear usability. Poor hafting may result in lowering the weapon quality even below the head quality itself. The finished axe or spear quality thus now refers to overall usability with the used haft, and the success in hafting.
On the other hand, you may also manage to raise the finished weapon quality higher than the head quality itself with a perfect and perfectly fitted haft.

So, this is how 2024 starts feature wise. Stay tuned.

These are future features - not yet functional in current version 3.82.
- Sami | UnReal World creator

Isauros

« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2024, 07:40:30 PM »
I have two questions:

Will there be a space prompt (I think there is one) to make you stop and take notice when the shaft breaks? Just thinking that it'd be annoying if the head falls on the floor, and you wander off without noticing?

Will hafting a masterwork item with a lower quality shaft reduce the quality of the axe? It would be good to reward the players own self-sufficiency in that way by making carpentry skill more desirable.

I think this will be great addition. Good stuff!

Erkka

« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2024, 07:53:02 PM »
Quote from: lsauros
Will hafting a masterwork item with a lower quality shaft reduce the quality of the axe?

Quote from: Sami
The haft quality and success in hafting has significant impact on the finished axe or spear usability. Poor hafting may result in lowering the weapon quality even below the head quality itself.
UnReal World co-designer, also working on a small side project called Ancient Savo

Matti-patti

« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2024, 08:02:24 PM »
Ability to get them re-hafted at suitably skilled blacksmith's without quality loss chance would be nice.

JP_Finn

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« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2024, 11:30:08 PM »
Will the weapon’s head quality be stored separately, retained through hafting and re-hafting? Can we examine the axe in inventory to see the quality of the head?
Or will we see “fine axe with decent head”?
If not, then there’s an “exploit” for skilled carpenter to buy decent/rough heads and re-haft with masterwork hafts.


I.e. check an axe in village, maybe it has fine or MW head on decent shaft, making the axe “fine”.

2nd question is regarding to inventory stacking: will all various combinations AND wear&tear levels be stacked separately?

JP_Finn

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« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2024, 11:34:56 PM »
Another question: will battle axe and woodman’s axe have long haft, or will all axes take same hafts?

PALU

« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2024, 11:03:30 AM »
I would suggest the head quality to be stored separately from the quality of the overall item, as suggested above.
I would also suggest considering whether the head should have a separate wear status or not. If it has a separate (future?) wear status, it might be restored through (a future) sharpening activity.
Thirdly, I would suggest a de-hafting activity whereby you remove a  (s)haft from a hafted item to allow the head to be mounted on a new (s)haft. This could be used as preventative maintenance on an item with a badly worn (s)haft, but could also be used to try to improve the quality of an item where the hafting didn't work out properly, resulting in a lower quality item than you'd like.

Sami

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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2024, 01:03:15 PM »
I have two questions:

Will there be a space prompt (I think there is one) to make you stop and take notice when the shaft breaks? Just thinking that it'd be annoying if the head falls on the floor, and you wander off without noticing?

Yes the breakage message will be space prompted.

Quote
Will hafting a masterwork item with a lower quality shaft reduce the quality of the axe? It would be good to reward the players own self-sufficiency in that way by making carpentry skill more desirable.

Erkka already answered this, with an answer that is mentioned in the original post. ;)
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Sami

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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2024, 01:05:58 PM »
Will the weapon’s head quality be stored separately, retained through hafting and re-hafting?


Yes.

Quote
Can we examine the axe in inventory to see the quality of the head?

No. Haven't been considered.

Quote
Or will we see “fine axe with decent head”?

No, you'll see just "fine axe".

Quote
2nd question is regarding to inventory stacking: will all various combinations AND wear&tear levels be stacked separately?

Yes, they will be stacked separately. That's the thing with stacking, if there is difference with the item properties the items wont' stack.
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Sami

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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2024, 01:07:14 PM »
Another question: will battle axe and woodman’s axe have long haft, or will all axes take same hafts?

There are only two generic haft types, one for axes and one for spears, that will suit them all.
Yes, in reality the hafts will differ depending on the axe/spear type, but in order to not make things overly complicated we'll just go with generic hafts.
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Sami

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« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2024, 01:14:13 PM »
I would suggest the head quality to be stored separately from the quality of the overall item, as suggested above.

It's going to be stored separately.

Quote
Thirdly, I would suggest a de-hafting activity whereby you remove a  (s)haft from a hafted item to allow the head to be mounted on a new (s)haft. This could be used as preventative maintenance on an item with a badly worn (s)haft, but could also be used to try to improve the quality of an item where the hafting didn't work out properly, resulting in a lower quality item than you'd like.

This has been considered, but not decided yet. In a game one may be easily tempted to try hafting until you get the quality you want, but in the real world approach to the relatively time consuming hafting is probably different. Replacing a noticeably worn haft is a different thing, and that case that the haft also can be removed a bit more easily than the new tightly fitted one.
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d2shr6o8av

« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2024, 02:12:50 AM »
Quote
which can break over time or upon damage

By over time do you mean an axe/spear being unused and the passage of time breaks down the connection to their axe_head/spear_tip?
Or do you mean them being worn away and eventually breaking after repeatedly using them for crafting/activity over time?
Or is it both?
Or is it something else?

AFAIK the only way to damage weapons is to use them to block attacks. Are there other ways they can be damaged?


Some scenarios (from most likely to least likely):
A spear losing its head while it is used to spear fish in shallow/deep water and while you are standing on land or on shallow water.
A spear/axe losing its head just as you finished making a hole in ice.
An axe losing its head while it is used to fell a tree while standing over shallow water.
Using a spear/axe to attack an entity that is standing on shallow water or swimming in deep water.
Throwing a spear/axe to attack an entity that is on shallow or deep water.

Is it possible to lose an axe_head/spear_tip during the above scenarios?
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Sami

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« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2024, 07:51:28 PM »
Quote
which can break over time or upon damage

Or do you mean them being worn away and eventually breaking after repeatedly using them for crafting/activity over time?

That.

Quote
AFAIK the only way to damage weapons is to use them to block attacks. Are there other ways they can be damaged?

Currently there are no other ways, but there will be when these hafting features get released.
Then the hafts will start to wear out from all the regular tasks the weapons are used in;
crafting, building, chopping trees, etc.

Quote
Some scenarios (from most likely to least likely):
A spear losing its head while it is used to spear fish in shallow/deep water and while you are standing on land or on shallow water.
A spear/axe losing its head just as you finished making a hole in ice.
An axe losing its head while it is used to fell a tree while standing over shallow water.
Using a spear/axe to attack an entity that is standing on shallow water or swimming in deep water.
Throwing a spear/axe to attack an entity that is on shallow or deep water.

Is it possible to lose an axe_head/spear_tip during the above scenarios?

Yes, it is possible, even though I haven't yet actually considered how to cope with the heads falling into the water.
But when the haft breaks the heads drops at the character's location - and if there's a water tile, for example when the character is wading, then the head drops into the water - and with the current mechanics it gets lost.
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