Topic: Moon and sun in the sky at the same time?  (Read 505 times)


skyleaf

« on: July 10, 2021, 11:53:18 AM »
Well I don't know if this is gameplay question or IRL question but I put it here anyway.
After the moon phase update implemented, I noticed quite often the moon hanging in the sky at both daytime and night.
Is it only game illustration issue, or it is representing the exact phenomena we would see in Finland during winter?  ???

Plotinus

« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2021, 06:10:59 PM »
It happens in real life, too, and not just in Finland https://earthsky.org/space/when-can-you-see-a-daytime-moon/

ineedcords

« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2021, 05:20:20 PM »
Regardless of where you are on planet earth, you wouldn't see sun and moon together "that much" - without providing any objective data, to me, it feels like they are hanging out together too much in this version of the game. I could be wrong though, haven't done any extensive testing on that.

Even if I am right, this is just the first version of this feature (even a beta) so it might be improved in future versions to provide a more realistic cycle.
This could be a good day to utilize your squirrels hides.

Plotinus

« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2021, 07:58:46 AM »
That's true; the moon has to be more than a quarter for it to be bright enough to see against the daytime sky.

Also, in real life, the moon and the sun are often in completely different parts of the sky, one might in the west and the other might be in the east, but in URW we just have a tiny piece of sky to see and they have to put the sun and moon in that chunk so that the user understands why the light is changing.

Plotinus

« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2021, 08:02:05 AM »
The way the sun and the moon are represented got me thinking about when solar eclipses might have been visible in the years of the game.   I found these PDFs https://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEpubs/5MCSE.html

And I think this one is the one for URW: https://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/5MCSE/5MCSE-Maps-08.pdf

ineedcords

« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2021, 10:55:29 AM »
The way the sun and the moon are represented got me thinking about when solar eclipses might have been visible in the years of the game.   I found these PDFs https://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEpubs/5MCSE.html

And I think this one is the one for URW: https://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/5MCSE/5MCSE-Maps-08.pdf
While there is nothing with textual material, for a richer experience one could use software these days; two are referenced below although I'm sure there are many others.
Software can help simulate position on earth and then look up to the virtual sky to see celestial body positions, including but not limited to Sun and Moon.

These type of simulations, even those that let you change date & time probably won't go back to Iron Age Finland but we are in the game-level simulation domain anyway - scientific-level simulation correctness is probably unnecessary here.

First software is free, the other one is commercial (no affiliation) but strongly recommended to anyone with an interest in astronomy - it's the lego of stars.
EDIT: I forgot to say, if one is mildly interested but can't be bothered to download & install, there is a web version, here: https://stellarium-web.org

Stellarium
"Stellarium is a free open source planetarium for your computer. It shows a realistic sky in 3D, just like what you see with the naked eye, binoculars or a telescope."
https://stellarium.org

Universe Sandbox
"Universe Sandbox is a physics-based space simulator. It merges gravity, climate, collision, and material interactions to reveal the beauty of our universe and the fragility of our planet. Create, destroy, and interact on a scale you've never before imagined. Rated Overwhelmingly Positive from over 11,000 Steam reviews."
https://universesandbox.com

Just fired up Stellarium & took a screenshot, just to give an idea:

« Last Edit: July 12, 2021, 10:58:47 AM by ineedcords »
This could be a good day to utilize your squirrels hides.

Erkka

« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2021, 07:55:25 PM »
Yesterday I was driving a car and noticed the moon in the sky, at 4 pm, in full daylight. But I didn't have time to stop to take a picture. Today, back at home, around 4 pm I tried to scan the sky but couldn't spot the moon. Then I went to help some of my neighbours, and took a small forest path to get from one neighbour to another. The path wound up next to a small forest clearing where my horses are having their peaceful eternal rest. I stopped there for a while, with all the good memories of the life with the horses. And then I noticed that above the treetops there is the moon;



Today the sunset will be at 22:45, and this image was taken at 18:35. Thinking of it, I'd guess our long summer days allow more hours to see the sun and the sky together in the sky.

Speaking of UrW, the sun and the moon positions are calculated based on scientific formulas, although we have omitted some minor fine-tuning and corrections, making it so that there might be 1% - 2% inaccuracy. Also, as already mentioned in this thread, it would be more realistic if the moon position wouldn't be drawn on the UrW UI sky box if the moon is too close to the sun. That will probably be adjusted at some point.

With a few lines of more code it would be possible to simulate also the lunar and solar eclipses, but at the moment that is not simulated. Those events would be atmospheric, so it remains to be seen if in some future version we happen to feel like adding eclipses  8)

 

anything