Topic: Torch Holder  (Read 1911 times)


« on: October 09, 2020, 06:28:53 AM »
Just a small thing, but it would be really nice to have a way to mount a torch on a solid surface. I've tried dropping torches but they just go out. Even with a fire and a torch lit, my cabin can feel pretty dark and I'd love to have torches burning in a few places to me it all cozy.


« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2020, 09:19:48 AM »
The problem there is the short life time of torches. You barely have time to set them before they go out.

I think a better option would be something that burns for longer (and with less smoke, although that's not modeled), akin to candles or oil lamps, but I don't know what was in use during the period.


« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2020, 02:09:13 PM »
but I don't know what was in use during the period.

I'm under the impression that candles and primitive oil lamps were for special occasions. For every day use the most common additional source of light was a thin piece of wood called päre. The link shows a wooded stand holding a päre in horizontal position. Such stands were used pretty much like a chandle holder. I'm not exactly sure but I'd guess they often had a bowl of water sitting on the floor, to catch any sparks or red glowing small ambers falling off the burning päre.

One piece of päre would burn for 15 minutes, so it isn't that handy for the kind of constant light we nowadays have in the era of electric light. Burning several päre in a row was the method to provide that necessary additional light when doing some indoor work which required more light than the glow of the fireplace.

(Sometimes I wonder how the Iron Age people survived the dimness of Finnish winter.)

Ara D.

« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2020, 07:51:57 PM »
The short burn time is offset by ease of use and ease of manufacture, to allow you to burn as many as needed in a row. Continental europe had rush lights to fill a similar function. I've mentioned it before and will continue to do so. What about a fat or tallow burning lamp.


« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2020, 08:25:09 PM »
The short burn time is offset by ease of use and ease of manufacture, to allow you to burn as many as needed in a row.

Here I'm thinking how that would be best implemented in the game, regarding the user interface and such. For example, if the player character first ignites a päre for additional light, and then starts a woodworking / crafting operation which would take 3 hours - should there be an option to "automatically start a new päre before the previous one is burnt out", or should we assume the player manually pausing the crafting task every now and then to press a few more keys to start another päre to keep the light going on? Or should it be so coded, that a next päre is automatically lit always when the following conditions are met: "there is a päre-holder with a lit päre in it, and one of the adjacent tiles has a stack of päre, and there also is an npc or the player character occupying a tile which has access to both the stack of päre and the päre-holder. And if so, should we run some additional checks that the mentioned character has at least one operational hand, or should we assume that even when both arms are fractured, the task can be completed by using feet and mouth?"

(sometimes I wonder how seemingly simple additions grow to become surprisingly complex design task when it comes to the actual "how to best simulate this in the game")

Ara D.

« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2020, 08:57:12 PM »
I would like to see a loading feature. You have the holder and you can add pare to it. The more pare the longer the burn time. I know nothing about code but maybe some variation on how ovens work with the ability to extinguish it at will. But the short answer no I don't want to have to micro manage lighting a new pare ever 15 min


« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2020, 12:17:05 AM »
I think Ara's proposal is a good one. Fill the holder with "charges" that are automatically replaced until they run out or the PC extinguish it (or removes the spare charges, leaving the active one).

I'd have the check for usage ability to be done when lighting it originally, and then make the implicit assumption that the same character is replacing the spent ones. That leaves room for some minor abuse and some minor odd situations (the PC goes climbing a tree and breaks both arms which it's burning, for instance), but I think it's worth that to have a simple system that doesn't tax the player with boring and annoying busywork.


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« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2020, 04:36:39 PM »
Autoloading pärepihti (pihti : pliers, tongs, clamp) is not historically accurate, neither can I envision the technology to exist 1000+ years ago.

I think we’ll be better to wait until pausable crafting is implemented, then like with a torch light; prompt “light is fading”.
And please, allow it to pause prompt us, or only notify and not pause about light fading.
See below a traditional wooden/root/burl made clamp and a fancy and expensive steel holder.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2020, 04:38:59 PM by JP_Finn »

Ara D.

« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2020, 10:26:52 PM »
When I say auto loading I mean that it is implied that the PC is manually switching the pare. Similar to how bait and or lure selection is implied when using a fishing rod


« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2020, 11:12:59 PM »
Which is how I understood Ara D's proposed implementation.

After thinking about it a bit further, I'd suggest having the option to start it when the light fades, so you won't burn it wastefully for 4 hours in order to have some light for the last hour of a 5 hour crafting session (and be able to cancel the order should the crafting go faster than expected).