Topic: A "get lost!" button?  (Read 799 times)


skyleaf

« on: August 03, 2020, 04:26:58 AM »
One day wandering near my settlement, I encountered a vagabond adventurer, we greeted and I decided to ask him to leave since I consider nearby regions are my territory. Of course the adventurer simply reply I am in no position to command him to do anything, which is fine if he is just wandering around, I guess I can still tolerate. The tragedy is, I found some very fresh lynx footprints in nearby forest, cant hold my excitement (my first time hunting a lynx!) I immediate start tracking, only to found out the still warm corpse, its' skin is harmed and being skin by the vagabond adventurer I encountered earlier.

I seriously hate the gameplay style of serial killers (unless targeting Njerpez), and I do hate to kill npc. But this anger me too much and my urge to kill this intruder just wont halt. My suggestion is, could we make a conservation command to ask the npc to leave, even outside settlement tiles? It is not like they really have to accept your command 100% of time, just warn them if they dont leave, there will be consequences (a fight). I would gladly accept a duel with the outsider to defend my territory and the preys within, but now without this function I can just shoot some arrows into his face and without giving him a chance to properly fight with me.

PALU

« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2020, 09:45:09 AM »
You can throw a glove in his face, which would probably make him angry enough to fight you...

skyleaf

« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2020, 06:22:20 AM »
You can throw a glove in his face, which would probably make him angry enough to fight you...

Haha, that sounds reasonable. But no, even throw a rotten grouse egg into his face it would only turn into a death battle, and I personally don't want anyone get seriously injured or died. What I would want is a function to challenge others into some kind of duel, preferably unarmed (which also makes this skill finally useful?) to avoid either of the sides get into life-threatening situation. It's like you being the robber - Engage in conversation, if npc denied the demand, a fight begin and the winner can throw the loser's unconscious body to several kms away.

user1805

« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2020, 11:26:12 AM »
[...]What I would want is a function to challenge others into some kind of duel, preferably unarmed (which also makes this skill finally useful?) to avoid either of the sides get into life-threatening situation. It's like you being the robber - Engage in conversation, if npc denied the demand, a fight begin and the winner can throw the loser's unconscious body to several kms away.

> The skill is useful already. In hunting and fighting an archer combines it with the bow when he does not need to unwield the bow. Kicking is a serious attack of blunt type even more of a 100 kilo guy hits the opponents legs at the right point.

> You want some wild guy in the no mans land/wildernes to do what YOU want to his disadvantage?  ;D You want a button to force him to fight you without weapon? Isnt that a bit too unrealistic? He asks you to put down your weapon first  ;D Or he apologizes and comes back with ten of his friends next day.

> How do you think you can claim the wilderness where is no mans land as your territory?

> Any change is work for the Admins. Here think about whats important and whats unimportant.

No, skyleaf, please please forget that :)

Erkka

« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2020, 02:36:46 PM »
Well, I'm part of the development team, and personally I feel that something like "threaten" would be both interesting and useful future addition at some point.

Basically, instead of a full-out fight a character could choose to act in a threatening way. Then the AI should evaluate if the threatened being would choose to flee or to counter-threaten, or to attack.

I could imagine this working both for animals and humans. And what little I have seen animal behaviour, seems like a natural way for many of them - first trying to negotiate the situation with different displays of threatening moves, and if they don't work only then a full fight ensues.


Quote
How do you think you can claim the wilderness where is no mans land as your territory?

I might be a simple person, as I'm not aware of any other means that the exact thing Skyleaf mentions. You tell others that you consider this or that plot of land as your territory, and ask them to leave if you feel so. If the others refuse to respect your statements, then it ultimately boils down to this or that form of violence to sort out who can stay and who needs to leave. In the modern society fist fights and lethal combats are (most of the time, in most of the countries) replaced by stuff like police, courts, legal punishments, jails etc. But the underlying basic mechanism is the same; the one who can backs ones claims with more firepower is the one who controls this or that piece of land. (From the philosophical point of view; I'm not here to say if I like things being this way, or if this is the most preferable way to handle land ownership. I'm merely just describing the way things seem to be in most of the human societies.)

skyleaf

« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2020, 05:40:45 PM »

> The skill is useful already. In hunting and fighting an archer combines it with the bow when he does not need to unwield the bow. Kicking is a serious attack of blunt type even more of a 100 kilo guy hits the opponents legs at the right point.

Since I am still playing my second character who has very limited strength, low weight and short in height, I am only able to kick a grouse to death. Kicking even slightly larger animal like ram can be suicidal to me (Literally, it hoofs me like crazy and I got extremely unlucky once and fractured my eyes), I cant even penetrate its' skin sometimes. And why would I use kick/ punch instead one handed melee weapon if armed enemy is charging up close? Unarmed attack is not useless for certain, but without training opportunity in a lower risk condition, I would say it have very limited usage for my current character. But I guess everyone have different gameplay style :)

> You want some wild guy in the no mans land/wildernes to do what YOU want to his disadvantage?  ;D You want a button to force him to fight you without weapon? Isnt that a bit too unrealistic? He asks you to put down your weapon first  ;D Or he apologizes and comes back with ten of his friends next day.

> How do you think you can claim the wilderness where is no mans land as your territory?

Umm, that's something I never through, I guess I did presume everyone would honor the duel but I guess you're right. BTW it would be really fun if npc would tactically retreat and call his companions to revenge. And no, I don't want to claim the wilderness as my territory, I simply just want to tell npc to get lost as civilize as possible outside the settlement tiles and if they reject, let's fight then.

> Any change is work for the Admins. Here think about whats important and whats unimportant.

I know it would totally be a dumb idea if it implemented in game completely based on what I had said. But I think what important is, it might be worthwhile to share this dumb idea if developers could turn it into something more interesting or magnificent, come on, they are like magician IRL or else URW won't exist. The least important thing would this suggestion get added into game or not. Besides it at least give everyone a laughter :P and I am glad Erkka found it interesting. 

PALU

« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2020, 07:48:43 PM »
Well, telling someone to get lost from a piece of no man's land is, in effect, claiming that piece of land. Setting up anything larger than a shelter is, in fact, a kind of claim.

Now, how could this play out?
Well, the NPC might demand compensation for moving, move without (much) argument, threaten you back, agree to a duel according to some set of rules (which the NPC may or may not adhere to), effectively rob you (by demanding you hand over what he wants), demand that YOU leave, or attack outright.
Assuming the NPC did leave, he might come back with backup or ambush you (regardless of which alternative played out in the first part: some people are cheaters, assholes, and/or refuse to accept to lose, which some would consider you're demand from a position of strength to be unfair). This, in turn, can result in attempts to kill the PC, rob him, and drive him away (with the last two not being mutually exclusive).

user1805

« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2020, 09:13:59 PM »
Those are really surprising answers, and after this inpunt i have confess that i agree to every detail each one of you said. Cheers :)

user1805

« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2020, 10:22:32 PM »
I was thinking about that and I have to confirm that I did not really understand yet: Why is it smart to piss of a guy who passes your way (somewhere) who didnt do anything wrong?

PALU

« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2020, 12:08:08 AM »
It generally isn't, but when NPCs become a nuisance by opening your doors and cutting down your trees you can get a bit annoyed. Personally I don't kick them out, though, but others may have lower tolerance (or may just play a generally blood thirsty character).

skyleaf

« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2020, 12:06:29 PM »
I was thinking about that and I have to confirm that I did not really understand yet: Why is it smart to piss of a guy who passes your way (somewhere) who didnt do anything wrong?

I remember a quest called 'bird thieve', that villager in URW would punish villager in another village who steal his prey by mythological means, sadly we can't do this ritual outside the quest and can only stick some arrows into the thief's head. Simply passing by of course the one did nothing, but it is quite unlikely based on my limited experiences. Apart from the experiences I mentioned in the first post, once I had recruited an adventurer and disbanded him near my settlement. Few minutes later I heard a sound of fighting just outside my house, when I rush out that guy just causally pick up a grouse carcass from my trap, right in front of my house and right in front of me. It's quite lucky for him that it's just a grouse and I have the option to command him to leave outside my settlement.

Personally I feel quite stressful and troublesome when I saw human wandering near my settlement in zoom out map, especially those adventurers - you just can't be sure if they are robbers or not until you approach them, and that means a lot of risks. Even if they are really friendly woodsmen, hunters and adventurers, I still don't want people messing with my traps, scare off preys nearby (or even hunt them) or chopping down woods everywhere just few hundred metres away from my house. It won't be wise to threaten others unless you use it as a mean to state your boundary clear.

user1805

« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2020, 11:20:00 PM »
Still cant follow that train of thoughts - a fight because of a bird or a cut tree (?); anyway the bluff can be a last option. Hope the bear was not tamed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtC14cpwwXg&pbjreload=101

|:peace:| :)