Topic: Improvements to fire mechanics, changes to smoking mechanics  (Read 3905 times)


Sami

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« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2020, 09:53:01 PM »
Will hot embers of campfire/bonfire count as heated fireplace for cooking stews?

No. Heated fireplace needs to be a heated fireplace.

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Re: smoking, is daily burnt minimum fire enough? 16 branches or 4 firewood as that heats up the fireplace? Or do we need to start burning slender trunks or blocks now? Little hint would be appreciated!

4 firewoods sounds sounds a bit too low. Common sense can be followed here - you don't warm up a cold fireplace with a fire that lasts just half an hour or so.
And the smoking also requires smoke, which diminished when the fire dies out. I'd say ten firewoods on daily basis would do.

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Will Kota be considered heated room with fire/embers now?

No.
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Sami

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« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2020, 09:55:12 PM »
One more question... If we leave meats to smoke in a village, will it be assumed that villagers will continue to periodically light the fire?  Is the game able to track this sort of activity, even if the player is far away?  Or, must the player be continually present to smoke his own meat?

We know that villagers will light fires every now and then and they actually might do some of the smoking labour for you. The game tracks this too even if the player is far away, but the thing is that if you're away for a long time you can't be sure if they have kept the fire burning there in sufficient amount or not.
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Sami

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« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2020, 10:03:46 PM »
I always found the mechanics of smoking meats in the game are bit odd to say the least, but since its been like this for a very long time, I guess I got used to this and never mentioned it. But now... Lets be honest here - if we want to do anything even remotely resembling proper smoking - this will not do. I guess the game is trying to simulate cold smoking, but as far as I know this method will not work with raw meat. In fact, it will not work so badly that if you'd try it, its almost certainly will lead to mid-level food poisoning at best and the brave food experimentator will need proper medical assistance. Sami, since you are taking a second look at this, maybe it would be a worthwhile effort to add a proper smoker building? Cold smoking does not need lots of heat, but it needs constant smoke source - aside from taste, it serves as natural anti-bacterial preserver. Fire source is not needed as such, as long as there are at least some embers under some moist wood shavings - its perfectly fine. So the smoke house can use a special fireplace with much longer burning fires (literally for days) that give almost no heat and cant be used for cooking or heating up.

It's the cold smoking the game simulates, and it works for raw meat/fish too. And yes, the smoke is more important than the high temperatures, but those fireplaces are the very sources of smoke. There are no chimneys, so everytime you burn fire in the fireplace the smoke fills the rooms. So all the houses are "smoke houses" to begin with and there's no need for special fireplace or special building. It's ancient and traditional way to cold smoke foodstuff in saunas. It would work similarly in regular houses too as the smoke generation is the same with those fireplaces without chimneys.

Actually, when the regular cottages were warmed up it gets (of course) so smoky in there that people rather stay outside for those few hours of active warming up, and then return when most of the smoke has been led out. The fireplace remains nicely warm still. This regular warming up process is yet to be simulated in the game because..well..very few would love it at first. :)
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Dark Art

« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2020, 10:47:46 PM »
No chimney, eh? Didnt think  that was the case. Damn, but this must so VERY smoky in those homes. Smoky and very dangerous. Even with modern chimneys carbon monoxide poisoning is still very much a threat and I wonder what was the mortality rate. I am not sure I'd be brave enough to sleep in the building with that kind of fireplace actively burning through the night. But yeah, that would definitely work as a smoke house :) Still, what we have now is simulation of the long curing stage, rather than preparation and actual smoking, wouldnt it be fun to actually have the smoking process be a bit more realistic?

I know its a bit off topic here, but have you guys ever considered adding morale to the game? It would definitely add a huge part to the gameplay and actively encourage players to keep neat clothing, cook different stuff, travel, seek company of other humans, penalize needless killings etc.

JP_Finn

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« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2020, 12:53:12 AM »
If there’s steaming vent for the protein to evaporate and lose moisture content, then warm smoking isn’t much, if any, different from drying/dehydrating. 8 hours at 145F/63C will preserve 1/4” /6mm strips of meat for at least 5 months.
(Although I use actual dehydrator which is temperature controlled and has assisted ventilation) Hot air goes up. Top of smoking teepee should vent enough.
For cold smoking, most of the actual curing is delayed dehydration while smoke keeps insects away and helps little with preservation.

wiki on Smoking, scroll down to preservation.

Hot smoking is simply roasting/baking in smoke.

StefanPravda

« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2020, 12:04:13 PM »
Off topic on topic question. Is there a good smoking guide for quick methods? I mean not the ones that require 10 days of smoking. I'd like to have fun and smoke me some meat in my hiking trips, maybe I will smoke myself some really good stuff and become a smoking chef  ;D. Thank you

PS: Also, what kind of meat would be best? I am no hunter, and in my country although it's full of poachers and deforesters, the laws are supposedly harsh and you can't hunt or cut logs unless you go through 10 thousand miles of bureaucracy. Supposedly.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 12:13:28 PM by StefanPravda »

JP_Finn

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« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2020, 05:07:17 PM »
I feel we should cut this section off the dev news and move to general...
Best guide is general cooking knowledge.
I.e. internal temperatures, time available, heat control. They vary on the protein smoked.
If you’re a fisherman, something like lavaret or perch are great, quickly cooking fishes. Or if they’re not local species bass, barramundi, tilapia are “easy fishes. You can try to smoke a fillet, but you’ll likely find the result somewhat dry and disappointing. Whole: gutted,de-scaled, skin-on is personal preference.

Smoke Generation is the easiest part; wood chips above embers, in a tinfoil pouch with couple holes on top/on metal plate, get dedicated smoke chip tube. As for wood, depends on location. Soaking the chips hour or two can help with ’more smoke&less flame-ups’

Depending on your home/residence type and location, smoking “at the cabin” would be easier to learn with, than on hikes. If you live in block of flats/apartment building, then that might be “not permitted in the property rules”

You can search for “hot smoking basics” online for some reading material.

StefanPravda

« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2020, 05:40:41 PM »
Going to read about it, I like smoked/dried fish (both), but I rarely find quality when purchasing. Not smoked/not dried enough, plus a few ingredients can change the taste a lot.

I live in an apartment, but we are planning to buy this summer a house with an acre of land not too far but not too close to the city, with a river near, good to blow out steam and also good in case we decide to start a bit of automated mini agriculture.

I like both city and wild life, I can't see myself moving in the wilds for good, but I don't like living only in the city either.

A friend of a friend has a coop with a few tens of hens, mostly automated. He only gathers the eggs from a recipient 2-3 times a week and fills the food auto machine once a week or so. I like the idea, I can ask a neighbor to do most of that, and I can go and take the eggs, and that's it  ;D And if I throw in a few more hens for the neighbor I won't have to pay for his help either lol.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 05:45:28 PM by StefanPravda »

Dungeon Smash

« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2020, 07:33:56 AM »
One more question... If we leave meats to smoke in a village, will it be assumed that villagers will continue to periodically light the fire?  Is the game able to track this sort of activity, even if the player is far away?  Or, must the player be continually present to smoke his own meat?

We know that villagers will light fires every now and then and they actually might do some of the smoking labour for you. The game tracks this too even if the player is far away, but the thing is that if you're away for a long time you can't be sure if they have kept the fire burning there in sufficient amount or not.
Ah, I see.  So it's rather "Luck of the draw" then.  Well, I think that's perfectly reasonable. Thank you for your reply!

Sounds like it's probably best to check in every now and then when smoking in a village, as you might expect.

Will

« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2020, 07:38:20 AM »
Can't wait for all the new stuff. And I'm not sure if it's already been suggested or not yet, but when you spoke about embers and smoke, I started thinking of some additions for the scaled out travel map in relation to that, what if you could discover fires made in villages, some smoke a couple tiles farther than the village itself if you have a high enough ability in the eye statistic, and perhaps -if it isn't already implemented in the AI- it's been a while since I've been able to play so I don't know if NPC's outside villages make fires, but if they do, maybe you could spot smoke from that too, farther out and easier than seeing the people making them.

Ezezaguna

« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2020, 05:56:10 PM »
Allfather, I crave for animal husbandry. Anyways, I liked that fire mechanics improvements  ;D

JP_Finn

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« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2020, 04:07:35 AM »
Allfather, I crave for animal husbandry. Anyways, I liked that fire mechanics improvements  ;D
It’s on the dev.plans already
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 05:40:49 AM by JP_Finn »

koteko

« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2020, 01:07:23 PM »
I absolutely love these changes :D

Roheline

« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2020, 08:40:47 AM »
Love the new changes, and thanks for the explanation regarding  the lack of chimneys, it actually  clarifies some of the game mechanics for me. I always wondered in the past why even in a large house on the coldest nights, my character still ended  up "sweating a lot" after lighting the hearth. It always seemed unrealistically efficient for the fireplace to produce that much heat from just a few logs, but I wonder if this was sort of simulating the smoky warming up period where no one would want to be inside!

One very small suggested tweak: when there are still glowing red embers, could it be possible for fires to automatically relight just by pushing more firewood onto it? Or maybe make the fire lighting task much faster and easier in those cases to simulate just putting fresh wood onto hot embers and blowing rather than the usual process (which I assume involves flint and steel or a bow drill).

PALU

« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2020, 09:19:32 AM »
I don't think putting fresh wood on embers should automatically restart the fire, as that's usually not what's happening in real life (where the embers are covered by ash). However, I fully support the automatic quick success suggestion.