UnReal World > Modding
Bow Balance question
Dr.Hossa:
Morning ladies
tl:dr
(actual questions highlighted)
I started getting into modding lately, and got nice results with simple stuff.
but even my "better stone axe", as i call it – because its basically a handaxe with inferior damage stats that cannot be crafted beyond rough quality without really good (iron) tools – needed quite a lot of time to try and twerk. But i finally managed it
(for those who are interested or want to put in their two cents – much appreciated:)
Spoiler: show.Stone-axe-head. "Stone" [effort:3] [phys:arms,hands] *COMMON* /4h/
{Stone} [remove]
{Stone} [Ground] '+for grinding, chipping and sharpening'
[WEIGHT:2.0]
[EDGE_ATTACK:3]
[NAME:Stone-axe-head]
.Better Stone-axe. "Handaxe" [effort:3] [phys:arms,hands] *COMMON* /3h/ %-35%
{Stone-axe-head} [remove]
{Slender trunk} [remove]
{Rope} =3= [remove]
{Fire} '+for piercing a hole for the head into the handle'
{Knife} <Small knife>
[TILEGFX:Stone-Axe]
[WEIGHT:4.0]
[PRICE:50]
[BLUNT_ATTACK:6]
[EDGE_ATTACK:4]
[POINT_ATTACK:-]
[1H_PENALTY:0]
[AD_CLASS:2/1]
Because i really want every single item i create to fit in the game and not being OP, or make existing items redundant. For i believe that sami and erkka the Great know best how powerful an item should be, because they do know the full mechanics... may the the gods forgive me to nerf the vanilla javelin down one damage-point, to fit my stone-tipped spear in... :-\
Which leads me to some rather (at least for me)big questions...:
1.
I have always been wondering about the bow-stats.
Apparently, the long bow is the best bow of all, if you just look at plain stats. Accuracy 7, damage 8.
Obviously, damage stats are transparent, as draw-weight of the bow is controlling it.
But there has to be more to it, something you cannot see about the properties of a bow.
I mean, the Northern bow does have the same AC value as a simble, primitive juniper bow, and worse than a short bow, which you can craft.
Nevertheless i believe that it is actually more accutate than the juniper stick.
I really dont want (developers) to deconstruct everything here, but its hard to balance self made items when you dont exactly know what the values actually resemble.
There are two hints in the encyclopedia:
Long Bow: "(...)amazing power and accuracy,but it takes years of training to become proficient in its use."
Northern Bow"(...)outstanding performance, and these bows are the finest and the fastest ones(...)"
1.1 What about accuracy?
I mean, ease of use has to be hidden in the items' properties, because both northern and long bow are hard to use but have different accuracy.
Bowstats at a glance
Spoiler: show
Acc Bl EdPnt Weight Val Val/lbs. Comments
Northern Bow 5 0 0 8 3 lbs. 176 58,66 Cultural item of Northern tribes
Hunting Bow 5 0 0 7 4 lbs. 144 36
Long Bow 7 0 0 8 4 lbs. 80 20
Shortbow 6 0 0 6 2 lbs. 40 20 Can be crafted
Juniper Bow 5 0 0 6 2 lbs. 16 8 Can be crafted (called Primitive Bow)
Is Accuracy stat reciprocally proportional to the handling of a bow?
The outstanding crossbow stat(8) tells me: No.
I am definitely no expert, but i think a crossbow is much easier to handle than a long bow... and a recurve bow also needs training... or not?
1.2 What about "speed"(referring to the description of the Northern bow)?
Has anyone experienced differences in shooting speed of different bows, besides the crossbow, which actually has a shown reload-time?
1.3 What about the actual inflicted damage output considering bow and arrow damage?
Can i control that as well by twerking the Arrow-damage stat?
For example, if i want to make a less powerful arrow, and i set its damage to 5, is the bow overwriting that with its own damage?
My speculation would be that the outcome is some kind of combination math here... at least that's what i expect.
But is there any method of estimating the damage output of a modified arrow...?
Much thanks for Answering that stuff. It would really help me to understand which "model" items i can use to get the desired stats and properties in the self .modded. one.
Dr.Hossa:
Hey guys
Anybody here who could give me at least a hint to my problems? :'(
I dont know if its just my post being too long, my questions too inaccurate, or the answers too obvious – although i cannot nail it...
Or are vanilla bow stats somewhat "un"balanced?
For example, why does the Longbow have better Accuracy than the laboriously crafted composite/recurve(=Northern) Bow?
Or is the weight difference of the bows (LB: 4lbs, NB: 3 lbs) such a signicant factor that it makes up for the inferior Accuracy?
If that is the case, i can neither retrace the Hunting bow's nor the Juniper bow's stats. I simply cannot identify any system here...
Is there any visible number that tells me the effective range and the firerate?
I really want to twerk and balance stats and understand mechanics. Some things can be tested, like accuracy, given enough(although hundrets or thousands of test shots), time and tries. Next thing, its really hard to find out/test out how much damage my arrows do (if i change bow damage, or arrow damage, or both).
THANKs ppl
marginoferror:
I'd assume the accuracy values you're referring to, which is already presented in the wiki as "by no means a certainty" and is based on very old information, have a high chance of being either incorrect or not the whole story.
I think the game is mysterious about rolls, stats and other details partly because the game was designed around mystery and superstition, so I wouldn't overthink the stats too much. If you really care about accuracy stats, the best thing I can think of would be to experiment by shooting a very very large number of arrows at stationary targets at various distances. Of course, actual calculations may be different on live targets, and may factor in skill or stats in unexpected ways, so even that might not do it.
Dr.Hossa:
Yeah, "not the whole story" is probably the most accurate description... I can well imagine that the weight of the bow for example does affect the handling and therefore the actual accuracy of the bow. I will start testing that and trying to put up some statistics. But that would lead to the hunting bow having a overall mediocre performance, considering the shortbow beeing half as heavy and having better acc.
So i guess that the type of the bow also affects how the game engine is handling the shooting.
I mean, deep inside i hope the Northern Bow will be the one with the best performance! ;D
Or is it that Longbows are in fact "unbalanced irl" which led to the extinction of the heavy armored medieval knight... ::) ?
But how should i set up the testing?
Test one type of bow with extremely different weights?
For example
.very heavy Hunting Bow. "Hunting Bow"
[WEIGHT:8]
.heavy Hunting Bow. "Hunting Bow"
[WEIGHT:6]
.vanilla Hunting bow. "Hunting Bow"
.light Hunting Bow. "Hunting Bow"
[WEIGHT:2]
Or even out the stats of the bows, so all have the same weight, acc value and point damage, see what happens?
If i remember correctly, the tag for the accuracy would the [Accuracy Value:X] but i cannot find it anymore on the web.
I think i will start by just shooting some hundreds of arrows with unmodded Bows first...
Test range: 5 tiles(perhaps a second or third test range, say 10 and 15 tiles??)
Bow skill should be 50%
man, that'll be a lot of work, but should clear out some of the fog.
Second, all the different bows, with same weight.
3rd, all dif. bows but only same damage
4th, all dif. bows, only same accuracy(need confirming of the tag!)
Then, if i'm still alive: Test no. 2
Each bow with different weight, and so on, blabla
By then, i will need a statistics expert to interprete all that data xD
Privateer:
--- Quote from: Dr.Hossa on March 07, 2020, 11:59:57 AM ---I mean, deep inside i hope the Northern Bow will be the one with the best performance! ;D
--- End quote ---
This is a common 'feeling' as "it has a name!"
By all means have fun testing and tweaking!
I'll just continue to use my "Elven Longbow" :D
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