Topic: Arrowheads  (Read 2374 times)


Tom H

« on: November 19, 2019, 06:11:38 AM »
Instead of just gathering common rocks in order to form arrows, why not craft arrowheads from stone/rock. It would be interesting to do flintnapping, or to carve arrowheads from bone and antlers.

Iron arrowheads could be a trade item, too, instead of completed Superior arrows. It would feel great to trade for some Superior iron arrowheads and form my own arrows. I think it would express the difference between crude, decent, fine, and Superior quality if the arrowheads were identified as crude bone, decent antler, fine flint, and superior iron.

Also, I think that searching for flint would add some quality to the standard mountain/cliff terrain.

PALU

« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2019, 11:49:54 AM »
Unless I'm misinformed, searching for flint in Finland is bound to be a very frustrating exercise, as aren't any flint deposits in the area (or at least very few), but all flint was imported.

":
As there are no local cherts in Finland, apart from the jasperoids in Finnish Lapland, the chert and flint used to make prehistoric artifacts must have been imported.
:"
from the preface of Geological Survey of Finland http://tupa.gtk.fi/julkaisu/bulletin/bt_334.pdf. A web search for "flint deposit finland" found that report (and I haven't actually read it).

Now, UrW isn't sticking strictly to the real world history...

Tom H

« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2019, 12:25:01 PM »
If that's accurate, it could still work. Just make flint a trade item, as Fine arrowheads? I guess I was enjoying the idea of emulating Otzi.

PALU

« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2019, 03:49:02 PM »
I don't think the iron age Finns used imported flint arrow heads as they could make metal ones (and import metal ones). Imported flint probably fell out of use when metal working technologies became reasonably wide spread. I believe I've seen it claimed flint was used for some things into historical times in places with local supplies, though.

Note that Ötzi was a stone age man, not an iron age one.

Tom H

« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2019, 03:56:04 AM »
er...Otzi was Bronze Age! Finding his axe and dating his body changed perceptions of how far back the Bronze Age began... The information they've garnered from that old man's body and gear is astounding.

Anyway, our characters are relatively inexperienced teenagers. Providing their own iron may be beyond them at this point, eh? So, if they're not carving bone and antler, they should be trading for iron?

PALU

« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2019, 10:21:55 AM »
As far as I understand metal smithing was a dedicated and highly respected profession during the UrW period, so most people would not have either knowledge of or experience with smithing. Apart from that, it requires structures and equipment that a starting character simply wouldn't have (unless somehow starting as a smith's apprentice).

Thus, to get arrows with metal heads they'd have to trade for either the complete arrows or for the heads.

Ara D.

« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2019, 10:57:02 PM »
So if we cannot get Flint and we are not making metal heads so what kind of of arrow heads are we making? Is it feasible to make arrows from other stone?

Tom H

« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2019, 08:12:59 PM »
So if we cannot get Flint and we are not making metal heads so what kind of of arrow heads are we making? Is it feasible to make arrows from other stone?

The procedure actually requires you to have rocks on hand. I just thought it would be cool to have to form arrowheads, first, before we could make an arrow. Since there is no flint, apparently, why are we using rocks?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2019, 03:30:31 AM by Tom H »

JEB Davis

« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2019, 08:54:47 PM »
Buoidda made a pretty cool set of mods, you may have already seen them.
Keep in mind, what you see below is for UrW v3.50 and has not been updated since that version.

Buoidda's crafts 1.5+

I did further changes for my personal mod, in which you have many options for arrows.
Here is the fletching menu. There are other items needed such as the fibres. Let me know if you're interested and I could dig those up.



// Part of Buoidda's crafts 1.5+
//
// JEB modified 2018-05-17
//        for UrW 3.50
// (to integrate Buoidda's with Master Mod)
//

[SUBMENU_START:Fletching]

// JEB EDITED ///////////////////////////////////////////////
.Tipped arrow. "Arrow" [effort:1] [phys:hands,one-armed]   *CARPENTRY*  %-5%  /30/    [patch:5]
{Arrow shaft}      [remove] [patchwise]
{*Arrowhead}      [remove] [patchwise]         'Arrowhead'
{Feather} (3)      [remove] [patchwise] [noquality]
{Fibre from*}       [remove] [patchwise] [noquality]   'Some fibre'
{Knife} <Small knife>
[NAME:Arrow]
[WEIGHT:0.1]
// JEB: was [WEIGHT:0.13]
// JEBv8.1: added %-5%

// JEB EDITED ///////////////////////////////////////////////
.Fur-fletched arrow. "Arrow" [effort:1] [phys:hands,one-armed]   *CARPENTRY*   %-20% /25/    [patch:5]
{Arrow shaft}      [remove] [patchwise]
{*Arrowhead}      [remove] [patchwise]         'Arrowhead'
{*Fur}       #0.05#   [remove] [patchwise] [noquality]   'Fur'
{Fibre from*}       [remove] [patchwise] [noquality]   'Some fibre'
{Knife} <Small knife>
[WEIGHT:0.1]
// JEB: was [WEIGHT:0.13]

// JEB EDITED ///////////////////////////////////////////////
.Repair arrow. "Arrow" [effort:1] [phys:hands,one-armed]   *CARPENTRY*   %-5%  /40/    [patch:5]
{*arrow}      [remove] [patchwise]         'Arrow to reuse feathers from'
{Arrow shaft}      [remove] [patchwise]
{*Arrowhead}      [remove] [patchwise]         'Arrowhead'
{Fibre from*}       [remove] [patchwise] [noquality]   'Some fibre'
{Knife} <Small knife>
[NAME:Arrow]
[WEIGHT:0.1]
// Be careful not to use your best arrows!
// JEB: was [WEIGHT:0.13], added {Fibre from*}
// JEBv8.1: added %-5%

.Wooden blunt arrow. "Blunt arrow" [effort:1] [phys:hands,one-armed]  *CARPENTRY*   %-20%    /35/    [patch:5]
{Wooden stake}      [remove] [patchwise]
{Knife}<Small knife>
[NAME:Blunt arrow]
// JEBv8.1: was %-15%

// JEB EDITED ///////////////////////////////////////////////
.Birch sapling arrow shaft. "Firewood" [phys:hands,one-armed]   *CARPENTRY*   %-40%  /15/  |-2|  [patch:5]
{[NEARBY_TILE:BIRCH]}               [noquality]   +'Birch nearby'
{Knife}
[NAME:Arrow shaft]
[TYPE:timber]
[MATERIAL:wood]
[WEIGHT:0.1]
[TILEGFX:bc-shaft]
[PRICE:0]
// JEB: was [TYPE:tool], added [PRICE:0], made Sapling lowercase

// JEB EDITED ///////////////////////////////////////////////
.Rowan sapling arrow shaft. "Firewood" [phys:hands,one-armed]   *CARPENTRY*   %-30%  /10/  |-2|  [patch:9]
{[NEARBY_TILE:ROWAN]}               [noquality]    +'Rowan nearby'
{[TILE:BUSHES]}               [noquality]    +'Bushes to collect saplings from'
{Knife}
[NAME:Arrow shaft]
[TYPE:timber]
[MATERIAL:wood]
[WEIGHT:0.1]
[TILEGFX:bc-shaft]
[PRICE:0]
// JEB: was [TYPE:tool], added [PRICE:0], was ".Sapling arrow shaft."
// JEBv8.1: was %-20%

// JEB EDITED ///////////////////////////////////////////////
.Split arrow shaft. "Firewood" [effort:1] [phys:stance,arms]   *CARPENTRY*  %-10%  /20/  |-1|  [patch:9]
{Board}    #1#    [remove] [patchwise]
{Axe}<Carving axe>
{Knife}<Small knife>
[NAME:Arrow shaft]
[TYPE:timber]
[MATERIAL:wood]
[WEIGHT:0.1]
[TILEGFX:bc-shaft]
[PRICE:0]
// JEB: was [TYPE:tool], added [PRICE:0]
// JEBv8.1: added %-10%

// JEB EDITED ///////////////////////////////////////////////
.Stone arrowhead. "Hunting horn" [effort:2] [phys:hands]   *CARPENTRY*  %-10% /30/ |-2|   [patch:5]
{Stone}      #1#    [remove] [patchwise] [noquality]   '+as a core'
{Rock}                   [noquality]    '+as the hammerstone'
[TYPE:tool]
[NAME:Arrowhead]
[MATERIAL:rock]
[WEIGHT:0.03]
[TILEGFX:bc-arrowhead]
[PRICE:0]
// JEB: added [PRICE:0], weight of stone used was #0.2#

[SUBMENU_END:Fletching]


And more from another file that adds to the fletching menu:


//
// JEB modified 2018-05-17
//        for UrW 3.50

[SUBMENU_START:Fletching]

.Branch arrow shaft. [effort:1] [phys:hands,one-armed] "Firewood" *CARPENTRY* %-20% /15/ |1| [patch:5]
{Branch} [remove] [noquality][patchwise]
{Knife}
{Fire} '+nearby to straighten' [ground]
[NAME:Arrow shaft]
[TYPE:timber]
[MATERIAL:wood]
[WEIGHT:0.1]
[TILEGFX:bc-shaft]
[PRICE:0]
// JEB: keep to compliment Buoidda's fletching mod
// JEBv8.4: removed <Broad knife>

.Split stake arrow shaft. "Firewood" [effort:1] [phys:hands,one-armed]   *CARPENTRY*  %-15% /20/  |-1|  [patch:4]
{Wooden stake}    [remove] [patchwise]
{Axe}<Carving axe>
{Knife}<Small knife>
[NAME:Arrow shaft]
[TYPE:timber]
[MATERIAL:wood]
[WEIGHT:0.1]
[TILEGFX:bc-shaft]
[PRICE:0]
// JEB patterned after Buoidda's Split arrow shaft

.Rock arrowhead. "Hunting horn" [effort:2] [phys:hands]   *CARPENTRY*  %-10% /20/ |-2|   [patch:5]
{Rock}      [remove] [patchwise] [noquality]   '+as a core'
{Rock}           [noquality]    '+as the hammerstone'
[TYPE:tool]
[NAME:Arrowhead]
[MATERIAL:rock]
[WEIGHT:0.03]
[TILEGFX:bc-arrowhead]
[PRICE:0]
// JEB patterned after Buoidda's Stone arrowhead

//.Rock-tipped Arrow. "Arrow" [effort:1] [phys:hands] *CARPENTRY* /30/ [patch:5]
//{Arrow shaft} (1) [remove][patchwise]
//{Rock arrowhead}  (1) [remove][patchwise]
//{Feather} (3) [remove] [patchwise] [noquality]
//{Tying equipment} [remove][patchwise]
//{Knife} <Small knife>
//[NAME:Arrow]
//[WEIGHT:0.13]
// JEB: added [WEIGHT:], (compliments Buoidda's stone arrowhead)
// JEB: Not needed because Buoidda's "Tipped arrow" can also use JEB's Rock arrowhead

.Blunt arrow. [effort:1] [phys:hands,one-armed]  *CARPENTRY*  %-5%  /45/  [patch:5]
{Branch}   [remove] [patchwise] [noquality]
{Feather} (3) [remove] [patchwise] [noquality]
{Tying equipment} [remove] [patchwise]
{Knife}
// DEFAULT (moved from WEAPON menu)
// JEB: keep to compliment Buoidda's fletching mod
// JEBv8.5: added %-5%

[SUBMENU_END:Fletching]
« Last Edit: November 22, 2019, 08:59:00 PM by JEB Davis »

Sami

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« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2020, 03:54:27 PM »
Instead of just gathering common rocks in order to form arrows, why not craft arrowheads from stone/rock. It would be interesting to do flintnapping, or to carve arrowheads from bone and antlers.

Iron arrowheads could be a trade item, too, instead of completed Superior arrows. It would feel great to trade for some Superior iron arrowheads and form my own arrows. I think it would express the difference between crude, decent, fine, and Superior quality if the arrowheads were identified as crude bone, decent antler, fine flint, and superior iron.

I'm all in for making archery related stuff more detailed. It's currently all too easy to make deadly arrows from generic branches and rocks.

Flint isn't commonly found, but arrowheads from bone and other rocks would do. Also, acquiring arrowsheads by trading is a thing that I'm in for.

I could spend lots and lots of time for some archery gear overhauls. We'll see what happens at what point.
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JP_Finn

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« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2020, 09:27:37 AM »
Sweet!

If we could split the fletching into:
Points(arrowheads), shafts, fletchings and assembly
(I’m almost certain from my studies that bone nocks did not exist in pre-medieval Finland)

Under points we’d have blunts, I.e. antler tip or stocky shaft
Antler/bone: blunt and basic
Rock points: basic, broad.
Sharpened shaft point: like javelins as very primitive/new character get-go option
Metal points (sub types: basic, bodkin, broad, forked. Others most likely existed, but to what extent as trade points)

Basic point being a cut on impact, not as wide as broad head, not a needlelike as bodkin or sharpened wooden point.

Under shafts we might have branch, sapling and split from firewood/block. All should require knife for peeling bark or rounding(split for firewood/block shafts). All should require heat for straightening the shaft. Slow work:longish task. More so with careful cutting of self nock and point groove split (neither sinew or cord reinforced yet) Small knife a bonus for cutting nock/point split. Peeling bark: any knife. Rounding, any one handed blade. (Not sure if medieval Finland had hand planes, that’d be the ticket)

We could have ... various birds give varied size feathers. I.e. willow grouse flight feather should only give 1 fletch. (Leading edge barbs too short) Whereas eagle owl or swan feather should give 2 split, maybe even 3,4 fletches with leading barbs long enough. {I don’t think we should go into fletch handedness... mixing RH and LH here should be ok, IMO}
or K.I.S.S. and make fletching cut give 1-2 fletches per feather. Small knife and work surface (table, bench, trunk... log wall?) a bonus.

As an occasional archery wing shooter, I’d love to have option to spiral bound fletching for “flu-flu” or bird shooting arrows. To minimize the running after missed shots. (I don’t have knowledge if they were actually used in pre-medieval Finland)
Possibly only allow them with blunts and forked points to avoid abuse of shorter range, slower arrows with combat points.

We could have “cord” per arrow, and have that cover point attachment, fletching and self-nocks. Or require sinew strands for it. If we’re to get that from game animals. And/or thread from spinning yarn or unraveling cloth.

Additionally, we should be able to recover points, possibly fletchings from broken shafts. Hitting cave walls/crags/base rock/big rocks should have a probability to break rock, antler and wood points. Damage metal points.
Pass throughs on large game should carry a chance to damage point, shaft, fletchings. (Rib, shoulder blade, spine, skull hits; lower chance&damage for metal points)

Assembly shouldn’t be too long of a task, most of the work is in the prep.

For skills, rock points/knapping should be Common. Antler point under common.  Hardened shaft point either common/timber craft/carpentry. Arrowsmithing metal points not in at least until other blacksmithing is introduced. Fletchcutting either hideworking or common.
Unless a whole new skill “Fletching” is added.

I think we’re better for simplicity’s sake to not include draw poundage, spining, draw length, GPP, FOC, release method/technique. Unless we’re going to make URW into full blown archery simulator... hopefully not  :P
« Last Edit: May 05, 2020, 09:33:27 AM by JP_Finn »