Topic: Fix Robbers  (Read 591 times)


Ares

« on: March 27, 2019, 09:59:42 PM »
Currently it's really hard for me to enjoy playing URW due to the way robbers are implemented. If you get knocked out in any fashion, you're auto-looted and transported from the fight, regardless of circumstances. Knock-outs shouldn't result in auto-forfeits if you still have companions/animals active. On my last play through, for instance, I tracked down some bandits with two companions, two dogs, and a large cow. I one shot the first with my bow, and quickly killed the second. We had the third robber surrounded by all five of us, with multiple major injuries on him and none of us so much as bruised. He managed to land a lucky blow that did no actual damage through my full metal armor, but caused sufficient pain to knock me out, resulting in waking up with all my gear/animals gone. Suffice to say I find it a tad doubtful that one under-equipped and badly injured robber managed to kill both dogs and both companions--all of whom were at full health--before I could wake up from the pain blackout, which should have only lasted a tick or two. It's unrealistic and makes those fights far worse than an entire village of Njerperz.

I would suggest one of two ways for robber encounters to be fixed in a way that feels fair and immersive:

  • The fight should continue to resolve, and you should only be "robbed" if/when hostilities cease without any non-routed "friendlies" by the PC's unconscious body.
  • A "bind" action should be implemented into the game (and made available to the PC, too). This uses the unarmed skill and requires a rope or cord. This takes several minutes to complete (more or less depending on your unarmed skill), during which the victim cannot take an action, however, it will be automatically interrupted by a successful attack. Once bound, the victim can be looted, and must unbind themselves taking ~30 minutes, or be unbound by someone else. If successfully bound by robbers, they will act as they do now: bonk you over the head, loot your gear, dump you in the woods. However, if you have aggro pets/companions active, they will (ideally) prevent this from happening until the robbers have dealt with them too. The added benefit of this is that it enables the PC to become a robber as well, allowing a (potentially) non-lethal way of disabling and looting NPCs.

PALU

« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2019, 10:17:30 PM »
I consider the auto loss to be a bug, rather than something that should be a suggestion. If you're properly knocked out (e.g. through a bit of "reinforcement" when out, I don't think there's any need for a rope.

It can also be noted that the auto loss description isn't correct: I had a character with a low pain threshold who was knocked out by a lucky arrow in a fight, woke up, went to pick up spare gear, returned to the tile where the fight took place, zoomed in, and the fight resumed. It seemed everyone (henchmen, dog, and robbers) were frozen in place during my character's travels (not very far, as the homestead was just a few kilometers away), The resumed fight was won, by the way...
Thus, your robber most probably didn't kill everyone, just took advantage of a momentary lapse of observation to perform a few impossible feats of stealth.

Tom H

« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2019, 02:28:20 AM »
Perhaps the problem is with plucky robbers who, for some reason, fight to the death rather than run when they're losing?

Ares

« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2019, 04:09:28 AM »
I consider the auto loss to be a bug, rather than something that should be a suggestion. If you're properly knocked out (e.g. through a bit of "reinforcement" when out, I don't think there's any need for a rope.

It can also be noted that the auto loss description isn't correct: I had a character with a low pain threshold who was knocked out by a lucky arrow in a fight, woke up, went to pick up spare gear, returned to the tile where the fight took place, zoomed in, and the fight resumed. It seemed everyone (henchmen, dog, and robbers) were frozen in place during my character's travels (not very far, as the homestead was just a few kilometers away), The resumed fight was won, by the way...
Thus, your robber most probably didn't kill everyone, just took advantage of a momentary lapse of observation to perform a few impossible feats of stealth.

At first I assumed it was a bug as well, but now it's been like this in the game for so long that I imagine it has to be working as intended. You're right, the fight may have been frozen in time, as I believe I simply quit out of the game after that rather than try and track the tile back down, haha.

The reason I suggest rope/cord to bind an unconscious victim is to make it an in game mechanic. Basically, if I don't have the option of instantly stripping people down and teleporting them away whenever they get knocked out, NPCs shouldn't either. It's also more realistic, as being knocked out doesn't work the same in real life as it does in movies, where people stay conveniently unconscious for however long the plot demands it. If you're ever out for more than a few breaths you've likely suffered permanent brain damage. It also offers a convenient moment to trigger the robber resolution script (stripping valuables, moving PC to X nearby location), by sparking it as soon as the binding is finished. However, like I said, I'd be satisfied as well just changing it so that it doesn't trigger until hostilities have completely ceased for at least 2-3 ticks and a robber is next to the PC's unconscious body.

Perhaps the problem is with plucky robbers who, for some reason, fight to the death rather than run when they're losing?

I'd be fine with robbers fighting to the death, just not with my character being magically teleported away naked from a fight that's still ongoing.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 04:11:03 AM by Ares »

Saiko Kila

« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2019, 04:36:43 PM »
Perhaps the problem is with plucky robbers who, for some reason, fight to the death rather than run when they're losing?

Recently I had a fight with robbers, where one of them actually started running away. I was afraid he would flee, and leave me only with his three companions to loot! But after I shot a few arrows in his direction, he came to his senses and returned to die like a (stupid) man.

EDIT: Oh, and regarding the original issue, it is indeed a problem, and very unfair behaviour. When you fight a Njerp or a bear, and have a couple of animals, when you get unconscious it's not a big deal - you regain consciousness and continue the fight, or more often see the enemies fleeing or dead (if killed by dogs or bled to death). This happened to my current character many times. But losing consciousness from fight with bandits makes the whole encounter lost instantly. This is not only completely different than other encounters (for no realistic reason), it also penalises characters with low Endurance, who are more likely to lose consciousness, though it happens even if they have END=18.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 06:48:57 PM by Saiko Kila »

Ares

« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2019, 03:35:51 PM »
I don't know if Sami has seen this or not, but I'm hoping it can get a look at for the upcoming update, which is conveniently focusing on NPC interactions in the game, and this happens to be the interaction I feel is most in need of improvement. The proposed improvements to wilderness wanderers sounds cool and all, but as it is now I avoid anyone in the wilds like the plague on the off chance they're robbers. Even though I could easily outmatch them, the risk of an errant blow knocking me unconscious for half a second and losing all my animals, companions, and gear is too great.

Sami

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« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2019, 11:26:07 AM »
This will be taken care of in the next release.

The fights which deal with special consequences for the player character's party upon defeat will continue on their own until the true result is resolved for all the participants.
This includes both fighting the robbers, as well as some village fights where villagers choose to deal with the nuisances with non-fatal manners.


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Labtop 215

« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2019, 10:30:30 PM »
Actually, if I can 'throw' this suggestion in here...  Perhaps we can throw a net at an entity (at the cost of a ton of durability on the net), and if it hit's the entity ends up being tangled up for a while.  An entity that is tangled up can't really fight back, so it would be simple to knock that entity out and take their stuff.  Also, just being able to take things from people that are unconscious or sleeping would be nice too.  Sleep would give a chance for the target to wake up and get upset, obviously.

Ares

« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2019, 11:36:37 AM »
This will be taken care of in the next release.

The fights which deal with special consequences for the player character's party upon defeat will continue on their own until the true result is resolved for all the participants.
This includes both fighting the robbers, as well as some village fights where villagers choose to deal with the nuisances with non-fatal manners.

Awesome, I'm so glad to hear this! Thanks Sami, very much appreciated, and now I can't wait for this next update!