Topic: Bait not req for fishing? Really?  (Read 589 times)


« on: February 02, 2019, 06:34:13 AM »
1) Are fishing rods in iron age historically accurate? What kind of string did they use? Would visible string still result in successful enticement of fish?

2) why issit bait is not req to catch fish when using fishing rod?

3) using nets w/o bait shld result in lower yields...

4) using branches and twigs, we shld be able to make primitive coned shaped fish traps. This is a simple low cost way to do passive fishing, should make it easier to survive the early game. Its relatively straightforward and only req hands to weave. Of course, bait such as berries must be used.

PALU

« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2019, 10:52:21 AM »
1. I believe fishing hooks have been around since the stone age, although I doubt any strings have ever been recovered. Thus, fishing rods should have been available during the iron age.

2. Digging up some worms to use as bait is presumably abstracted. Likewise, small fish caught might be used as bait implicitly as part of the fishing.

3. I didn't think net fishing used bait, generally?

Ara D.

« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2019, 07:26:53 PM »
I could believe that finding bait was part of fishing skill. I always assumed that we were using a lure or lures provided by the fishing pole. And as to the line in the real world it depends on the fish type and how it felt that day. Pike are known to be very uncaring about line visibility. You could probably catch one on a rope. No nets do not need bait they are most likely gill nets. Fish attempt to swim through and get tangled, usually by their gills. That's why we find them dead after two days. Think of it like a bunch of trap fences and pit traps, but for fish

Saiko Kila

« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2019, 11:25:48 AM »
These are some fish which don't give a damn about the lure, they will catch about anything they see (if they see the hook, the will catch the hook, if you attach a leaf or a small stick it will be better). When fishing with fly the fly looks like nothing you can find in nature, its the movement which counts mostly.

But this can be abstracted anyway - most anglers I know use mostly either synthetic lures or something they can catch at the site, like snails or earthworms. They sometimes experiment and make special baits (usually when they are unsuccessful at first), like from potato, or maize, but of course these couldn't be used in ancient Europe... Rice could be used, but not in Finland. Bread and wheat products are considered good baits, too. I think making it too realistic would make too much hassle - for example if you are targetting breams in real life, they like big bait, like several white worms at once, or even a sandwich, and probably won't get caught on something smaller (you will get a roach or similar instead). But in the game, kind of fish caught depends on something else, including apparently supernatural influence.

The anglers do use fishing bait, which I don't know English name for, which is thrown into water BEFORE fishing, and even if they don't want to fish on a particular day. It is used to keep the fish nearby and make them less skittish in future. This uses more baiting substance than actual fishing. But if the engine would support this - I doubt it.

Also - berries? I've never heard about berries used as a bait. And baiting nets is also a technique I'm unaware of.

irontide

« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2019, 02:05:53 PM »
The anglers do use fishing bait, which I don't know English name for, which is thrown into water BEFORE fishing, and even if they don't want to fish on a particular day. It is used to keep the fish nearby and make them less skittish in future. This uses more baiting substance than actual fishing. But if the engine would support this - I doubt it.

This is called 'burley' in English. A good source of burley is the guts, etc., of the fish you caught and cleaned yesterday.

irontide

« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2019, 02:10:02 PM »
I'm happy to consider the baiting process to be abstracted by the Fishing skill. I don't know about traditional Finnish fishing, but in other places, including Stone Age cultures like in Polynesia (where metals were not available at all), artificial lures are used more often than bait. Something else that is common is not to use a hook (though hooks are common) but instead something called a 'gorge', which is a rod (of bone or wood, normally) which acts as a lure, and is rigged such that when you pull on the line it turns so that it sticks crosswise in the fish's throat. So, it's a combination of a lure and way to physically catch the fish.

 Since fishing rods can only be gained by trade, I'm happy to think of it not just being the rod, but also the tackle.

Brygun

« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2019, 03:14:27 AM »
The OP was a good question. I'm also in favor of thinking of the fishing skill as getting the right bait. Also the right depth, proximity to under water plants and so on that could go into the skill.

Perhaps a slight tweak of the fishing skill description if it doesn't already describe including these things.

I'm not sure if its period yet consider fly fishing. I don't do it myself. Its where you flip a tiny lure onto the water to trick a fish into thinking its an edible bug.

The BAC is just one mod which does include making a fishing rod, or item(s) using it as a base object. We've generally coded making a fishing rod as needing a long wood, string and something for a hook. The other bits, like a small wood stick for a float, are too small have as a recipe line item. The related "tackle" as someone put it is either assumed in the build or in the fishing skill.




« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 03:17:23 AM by Brygun »

Saukko

« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2019, 04:07:00 PM »
I've thought of the fishing process to include not just waiting for the catch, but also finding bait, etc. that's just been abstracted into a single skill roll - after all, the process takes a couple of hours and you can catch several fish with a single try, so there's obvisouly a great deal of abstraction going on. I fish myself quite a bit, both with artifical lures using a spinner reel and by angling, and on the few times when I've either forgotten to take the bait along or have run out, I've used whatever bugs I've found around the place, or used parts of a fish I've already caught (fish eyes used to be a popular choice during the ice fishing season) - and on some occasions, just used some colorful string I've had in my pocket.

Rods themselves may or may not be accurate, as there are no surviving examples that I'm aware of (being wood, they decompose easily and even when found, may not be that much different from any other random piece of wood). However, we do know that iron age people did fish using bone or wooden hooks and some type of string, and so it's highly likely that they would've used some type of rod to improve their reach - our ancestors weren't stupid, after all, and attaching the string on the end of of long wooden stick is a very obvious way to improve your chances of reaching suitable fishing spots.

iron

« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2019, 10:54:44 PM »
The anglers do use fishing bait, which I don't know English name for, which is thrown into water BEFORE fishing, and even if they don't want to fish on a particular day. It is used to keep the fish nearby and make them less skittish in future. This uses more baiting substance than actual fishing. But if the engine would support this - I doubt it.

This is called 'burley' in English. A good source of burley is the guts, etc., of the fish you caught and cleaned yesterday.

In US english it's called 'chum' or a 'broadcast bait'.  After the advent of the movie jaws most everyone in the US associates chum with baiting sharks, but canned corn is often used to chum for bluegill and trout, and a strong scented dough ball bait may be broadcast for bottom feeders like catfish, carp etc.