UnReal World > Modding

Modding in valuable metals (Gold, Silver, Copper) for trade.

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Signatus:

--- Quote from: Acolyte on January 20, 2019, 11:52:06 PM ---General rule throughout much of history is copper/bronze:silver is about 1:20 and silver:gold is about the same 1:20. So a gold precious spear would be 400 times the cost of the copper one and that's if there is enough gold around to make one.

--- End quote ---

Which is why gold and silver should be really hard to find in the first place, perhaps making you lose weeks/months to get anything worth it.

Perhaps a whole spear made of gold is too much, but it only really needs the spearhead considering the recipe using a staff. A sword would probably take years of mining and finding ore, but maybe a small knife or a ring/bracelet would be an easier and more realistic project.

Copper and bonze also melt at lower temperatures, making it easier to smelt.

Iron mining is currently simplified as well. Usually you'd have to actually find a place with ore, not just any puddle. Iron sure is common, but you still have to find it

Acolyte:
A spear head is still a lot of gold - we're talking a pound or two. Keep in mind that all the gold ever found throughout history worldwide would fit into a couple of swimming pools. There just isn't that much of it, let alone in easily smeltable form. Most large  - beyond ring size - gold objects are hollow, merely coated with gold, are not pure gold or a combination of any/all of these. It's a pretty rare thing for something to be solid 24k gold.

Rings and bracelets would certainly be made, and maybe a very small knife. Gold used as decoration, however, is another matter. Gold inlay is fairly old and could be done to the head and shaft using relatively small amounts to radically increase the value of the spear. In fact, the better weapons makers might just do this to make more of a profit. The same is true of silver and gemstones.

Silver OTOH is more doable. A silver spear head would be quite valuable and you could make valuable things like knives out of it. In terms of functionality neither would be very good, but they'd function as status symbols. Expensive, but doable. Jewelry is already in the game and would absolutely be around.

   - Shane

Signatus:

--- Quote from: Acolyte on January 21, 2019, 02:40:16 AM ---A spear head is still a lot of gold - we're talking a pound or two. Keep in mind that all the gold ever found throughout history worldwide would fit into a couple of swimming pools. There just isn't that much of it, let alone in easily smeltable form. Most large  - beyond ring size - gold objects are hollow, merely coated with gold, are not pure gold or a combination of any/all of these. It's a pretty rare thing for something to be solid 24k gold.
--- End quote ---

You are right, but it would also be available as rare import, which isn't in the game yet.


--- Quote ---Rings and bracelets would certainly be made, and maybe a very small knife. Gold used as decoration, however, is another matter. Gold inlay is fairly old and could be done to the head and shaft using relatively small amounts to radically increase the value of the spear. In fact, the better weapons makers might just do this to make more of a profit. The same is true of silver and gemstones.
--- End quote ---

I think inlaying would be fairly simple with an optional tag in the main weapon recipes


--- Quote ---Silver OTOH is more doable. A silver spear head would be quite valuable and you could make valuable things like knives out of it. In terms of functionality neither would be very good, but they'd function as status symbols. Expensive, but doable. Jewelry is already in the game and would absolutely be around.

--- End quote ---

It also has kind of a mystical ring to it, being used as sacrifice in a ritual. But getting silver only from silver rings from traders is tough. It shouldn't be easy, and it's something for a mid-late game goal depending on finding a supply of silver

Signatus:
I researched a bit and here's a table on bronze and silver values in vanilla:


--- Code: ---WEIGHT NAME VALUE VAL/LB
<--------------><----------------------><------><------>
0.006623 bronze bezel ring 192 28 989
0.01766 bronze ball pendant 240 13 590
0.01766 bronze bear pendant 360 20 385
0.046358 bronze bracelet 224 4 831
0.0883 small bronze brooch 160 1 812
0.13245 bronze flower-orn. comb 320 2 416
0.13245 bronze horse-orn. comb 384 2 899
0.1766 bronze brooch 280 1 585
<--------------><----------------------><------><------>
0.006623 silver ring 320 48 316
0.03532 silver bird bracelet 520 14 772
0.04415 silver sun-symbol pend. 640 14 496
0.055188 silver chain bracelet 680 12 321

lowest values: 0.1286 bronze to silver
highest(rings): 0.5999 bronze to silver
pends(bear): 1.4062
pends(no bear): 0.9375
bracelets: 0.3270
averages: 1.1062
avg bronze: 24 863
avg silver: 22 476

--- End code ---

They're ordered by weight

Bronze loses a lot of value per pound in the bigger objects, though that's to be expected. The pendants are pretty much the same (with the bronze bear one being more valuable than the silver), but bracelets seem to fall between the ratio of the highest and lowest values.

On average bronze actually wins, but the sample is quite small.

I was able to make ore appear in mountain and rivers in shallow water as well as in the crags. Even with commonness at 1 I still have trouble finding copper, let alone the tin at 0.1. Eventually it's possible to find it, though.

Here's some example code of how to do all this. First there's the harvesting, which might be done as herbs:


--- Code: ---.Alluvial ore of copper. (1) [root]
//[NAME:Ore of copper]
[TILEGFX:shr-noaidis]
[SIZE:L]
[SPROUT:1]
[MATURE:90]
[WITHER:12]
[REGION:eastern western northern southern]
[TERRAIN:river ford]
[SYMBIOSIS:shallow_water]
[POPULATION:15]
[FREQUENCY:40]
[COMMONNESS:1]
[HERB_COMMON:eastern western northern southern]
[HERB_KNOWN:all]
[EFFECT_RAW:deadly_poisonous]
// commonness should be 0.2 of iron

.Rocky ore of copper. (1) [root]
//[NAME:Ore of copper]
[TILEGFX:shr-noaidis]
[SIZE:L]
[SPROUT:1]
[MATURE:90]
[WITHER:12]
[REGION:eastern western northern southern]
[TERRAIN:cliff mountain river ford]
[SYMBIOSIS:rocky]
[POPULATION:15]
[FREQUENCY:40]
[COMMONNESS:1]
[HERB_COMMON:eastern western northern southern]
[HERB_KNOWN:all]
[EFFECT_RAW:deadly_poisonous]
// commonness should be 0.2 of iron

// TIN

.Alluvial ore of tin. (1) [root]
//[NAME:Ore of tin]
[TILEGFX:shr-bogiron]
[SIZE:L]
[SPROUT:1]
[MATURE:90]
[WITHER:12]
[REGION:eastern western northern southern]
[TERRAIN:river ford]
[SYMBIOSIS:shallow_water]
[POPULATION:40]
[FREQUENCY:80]
[COMMONNESS:0.1]
[HERB_COMMON:eastern western northern southern]
[HERB_KNOWN:all]
[EFFECT_RAW:deadly_poisonous]

.Rocky ore of tin. (1) [root]
//[NAME:Ore of tin]
[TILEGFX:shr-bogiron]
[SIZE:L]
[SPROUT:1]
[MATURE:90]
[WITHER:12]
[REGION:eastern western northern southern]
[TERRAIN:cliff mountain river ford]
[SYMBIOSIS:rocky]
[POPULATION:40]
[FREQUENCY:80]
[COMMONNESS:0.1]
[HERB_COMMON:eastern western northern southern]
[HERB_KNOWN:all]
[EFFECT_RAW:deadly_poisonous]

--- End code ---

This is based on some small thread regarding the sufficiency mod and has some of caethan's values. The only way for it to both appear on rocks and shallow water was to have two types with different symbiosis. The roots, though they mostly don't rot, can be prepared to a stackable, uniformized and usable form by this recipe:


--- Code: ---.Prepare ore. "Hunting horn" [effort:0] *TIMBERCRAFT* [noquality] /1/ [patch:50]
{* ore of*} #0.1# [patchwise] [remove] [name:Ore of %s] [naming:last word] 'Of same ore'
[MATERIAL:iron]
[TYPE:valuable]
[WEIGHT:0.1]

// smelting
// improved method

.Smelt precious ore bloom. "Hunting horn" [effort:2] [phys:arms,hands,stance] *TIMBERCRAFT* %-20% /1/
{Ore of*} #1#  [remove] [noquality] [name:Bloom of pure %s] [naming:last word] 'Raw ore'
[MATERIAL:iron]
[TYPE:valuable]
[WEIGHT:0.5]
[PRICE:0.01]
[TILEGFX:bc-ironbloom]

.Smelt bronze bloom. "Hunting horn" [effort:2] [phys:arms,hands,stance] *TIMBERCRAFT* %-20% /1/ [patch:8]
{* of pure tin} #0.125#  [remove] '1 tin'
{* of pure copper} #0.875#  [remove] '7 copper'
[NAME:Bloom of bronze]
[MATERIAL:iron]
[TYPE:valuable]
[WEIGHT:1]
[PRICE:0.01]
[TILEGFX:bc-ironbloom]

.Cast an ingot of metal. "Hunting horn" [effort:2] [phys:arms,hands,stance] *TIMBERCRAFT* /1/
{* of pure*} #1# [name:Ingot of pure %s] [naming:last word]
[MATERIAL:iron]
[TYPE:valuable]
[WEIGHT:1]
[PRICE:0.01]
[TILEGFX:bc-ironbloom]

.Copper ring. "Bronze bezel ring" [effort:2] [phys:hands] *CARPENTRY* /1/
{* of pure copper} #0.007# [remove]
[PRICE:12]

.Bronze bezel ring.  [effort:2] [phys:hands] *CARPENTRY* /1/
{* of pure bronze} #0.007# [remove]

.Silver ring. [effort:2] [phys:hands] *CARPENTRY* /1/
{* of pure silver} #0.007# [remove]

.Iron ring. "Bronze bezel ring" [effort:2] [phys:hands] *CARPENTRY* /1/
{* of pure iron} #0.01# [remove]
{* of pure *} #0.004# [remove] [optional] [name:%s-ornamented iron ring] [naming:last word]
[PRICE:0.1]

.Decorate spear with metal. "Spear" [effort:2] [phys:hands] *COMMON* %10% /1/
{Spear}
{* of pure *} #0.2# [remove] [optional] [name:%s-decorated spear] [naming:last word]
[PRICE:50]
--- End code ---

The use of pure is to distinguish workable materials from which to get the last name out of. So both blooms of pure copper or ingots of pure cooper could be used. It could be changed to a different word too.

The rings are a few ideas on how to implement it, simplified. The iron ring can be made solo or with ornaments. Spears can be decorated and remain spears, while having a chance to improve quality. If used in the recipe of a Spear itself, it can simply add some flair. You can mark your home-made items in iron as well, so it's not unusable.

Let me know what you think. I think the problem here is adjusting the rarity so that it's a rarity/chance finding the ores while still being able to use them without being over/underpowered. You might stumble upon a deposit and mark it on your back from wherever, maybe even make an expedition there on purpose. This ain't easy to find.

As for iron, I'm not sure how it'd work. Having to look for iron rather than just go to the local lake/mire is interesting and might make iron mining less boring. The time gained by gathering rather than mining could be compensated in the preparing step.

Brygun:
There videos on youtube from "Thegn Thrand" for sure on testing bronze weapons. There may also be some from Schollagladitoria and Shadiversity.

Bronze can get a sharp edge yet the edge on the softer metal is more frail. Since it doesn't need to be heated as high to smith bronze weapons also tend to bend during the impact levels of combat.

UrW deals with weapon breakage by reducing quality factors of weapons.

We dont have a way of, afaik, to tell the game to accelerate the rate of decay of the weapon. For example parrying with a bronze sword vs an iron Nerjpez scimitar is going to wear out the bronze faster.

I would therefore suggest considering giving bronze weapons either or both:
- a penalty to crafting so they tend to come out "rough" and thus closer to broken
- reduced weapon impact stats,  1 -2 points off to estimate the average reduced state


>>>>

There was overlaps of iron and bronze. At that time the availability and skills in iron were rare. In UrW the iron availability is very much there.

>>>>

In terms of making the bronze with its lower heating points you may consider leaving out the bloomery. You could check on bronze making to see if they needed charcoal with its higher burns or if they could use just wood. Likewie with a bellows.

Copper smelting may have been discovered from large and long lasting hearth fires (cooking and heating a home) being able to melt the green copper out of malachite rocks.

>>>>

Remember that Bronze needs copper and tin. So you should source in tin somehow.

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