Topic: Community mod BAC: Smith, Cooking, Punts, Survival, Carpentry, Sewing  (Read 23165 times)


Brygun

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« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2018, 11:48:56 PM »
Leaving keg/barrel weight problem as is, for now.

biy experiments and restructuring done. The use of boff_ filename leader remains the best way I can find.

boff_biy_BAC_caves.txt for the cave specific recipes
rain catcher and well are now in separate boff_biy_BAC_Alt_#.txt files

biy_BAC_Standard now holds standard and non-conflicting items. For now that is just the road entry.


Brygun

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« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2018, 12:25:28 AM »
diy_BAC_crafts.txt is to be deleted when you get the next update. All entries have been moved to other diy_BAC_XXX files


KKarlssoNN

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« Reply #32 on: December 29, 2018, 12:31:10 AM »
Signatus asked: "By the way, is a birch-bark lace supposed to be the standard way to get birch-bark?"

From my experience... yes. Scratched my head for a bit trying to figure the way to get it. "Strip" might be a better word. Doesn't really matter though, unless the code needs it.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2018, 06:38:45 AM by KKarlssoNN »

Brygun

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« Reply #33 on: December 29, 2018, 12:48:52 AM »
correct on Birch-bark lace

Having had birch at our (now sold  :-[ ) cottage the strips you can easily peel off can look like laces.

BrygunAdd for the canoe also added getting very big "Roll of birch-bark" which in testing did get used for the build items

>>>>

I had a look at Signatus Pine tar -> Pitch glue and find it valid. It also teaches there is more than one source. This teaching is a good thing. A survival game of this quality does put in mind how we might survive in the real world. At least better than needing 100 golden pick axes... with gold too soft to do the work of a pick.

>>>

Making pitch glue is being moved in to the "Barkware" menu


>>>>

Both glue menus need some research as to why a "shovel" is needed to put dirt on it.  :o


Brygun

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« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2018, 02:19:21 AM »
Update  as above plus

Glues and lead up in Barkware


Researched the pitch glues and why a shovel was needed.  Shovel replaced with {Rock} as simpler build with as follows

Pine glue the rock grinds charcoal and ash into the mix

Birch-bark glue the rock is used to dig a shallow hole and bury it. With how small the hole is I dont see a shovel being needed but it does explain where the shovel need came from.


Barkware given a birch-bark cup

Birch-bark got headdress for rocking those ceremonial rituals in style, feathers are optional

Birch-bark got tassets to wrap your hip and groin for those near naked night festivals

Experimenting with birch bark clothing to have optional bone and feather additions to their names. This needs testing.



« Last Edit: December 29, 2018, 03:13:08 AM by Brygun »

Brygun

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« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2018, 05:00:57 AM »
in next update:

Cookery calls for {Board} give [ground] tag so kitchen can have the board in it and you dont have to hold it

Dried berries and dried mushrooms {Board} changed to {Stone} to allow earlier survivor access to drying those items.

Brygun

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« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2018, 05:36:31 AM »
 ;D :) ;D :D :)

Behold!

The punt shelter!

Yes! Make a shelter with your punt and dismantle it in the morning.

I've been wondering a long time if this works and it did!

Of course when active it blocks the normal shelter building.

Im attaching the file here with the boff_ blocker for you to remove. It will be part of the next zip update.

Take with your four (4) stakes to make two X to hold up one side of the punt. Instant lean to! Well 10 minute lean to. This is much shorter in time to keep building shelters especially as you can carry/sail with all the parts the next morning so quickly.

My simple test did return the punt even with the mod turned back off.

Still, I strongly recommend recovering your punt before deactivating the mod.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2018, 05:38:50 AM by Brygun »

Signatus

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« Reply #37 on: December 29, 2018, 07:41:58 AM »
    Ok, so I've been researching about Pine pitch/sap/resin in the last few hours and here's what I found:

What is sap/resin/pitch?

All of these are names given to the sticky material that Pine trees exude to cover their wounds and prevent bugs and infections from creeping in. Functionally they appear to be pretty much the same (at least in the context of pines), but sap is the most liquid sugary form (and it's what trees usually use to transport nutrients), while resin is the solid and hardened version of it. Pitch seems to be the intermediate, not quite either. The ones we're more interested in is the pitch and resin, which are sometimes used interchangeably. I'll refer to it as resin below.

https://downandout.wordpress.com/2013/10/17/whats-the-difference-pine-sap-pitch-or-resin/

What about pine tar?

This one is confusing... pine tar is kind of "liquid smoke", made by burning resinous wood ("fatwood") with a minimal amount of air, and the tar would then flow out of it. It seems to be best to use dead dried fatwood, rather than a fresh one, oddly. Its uses include waterproofing, firewood, preserving ropes and cordage, sealing material, etc. This doesn't seem that relevant to our intended uses, unless we wanted to use it to paint clinkered punts, which seems like a waste of menu entries when we have the very similar pitch with almost identical uses. It seems to also result in charcoal, and appears to be able to be turned into pitch glue by boiling. Seems to be a roundabout way to achieve the same thing, though

Can be used to make soap, but this isn't quite Dwarf Fortress :)

https://www.puuvene.net/phuhta/artikkelit/tar.html

https://www.survival-manual.com/pine-tar.php

Video of a guy doing it (INVOLVES A SHOVEL!): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNf2Kre7ylI

What can pine resin be used for?

Mainly it can be used for creating "natural" glue and (surprisingly) medicine. While resin by itself is not usable (but is easily storable), it can be heated to become malleable and sticky, but is usually full of impurities like bugs and bark.

How to make pine pitch glue?

While there's some optional ingredients that you can use depending on your needs or resources, the main ingredients are a tiny bit of powdered charcoal and some resin.

  • Gather the resin
Just use a knife to cut/scrape it off the bark. It's that simple, though it'll obviously have some impurities. While it's possible to tap a tree, it involves more preparation, tools and damage to the tree that aren't very well modeled in-game. Also, collecting naturally occurring resin feels much more in tune with Nature
  • Grind some charcoal into a fine powder
You don't seem to need much charcoal, burning the tip of a branch might be enough
  • Melt/heat the resin
This has to be done carefully because it's extremely flammable. A double boiler (a pot of water with another pot inside it) is advisable, to control the heat.
  • Remove impurities
A sieve can be used, but it can also be done manually, I guess.
  • Mix the resin with the charcoal
It should still be sticky, but not so much as before. You don't really need to do it with your hands, of course
  • [OPTIONAL] Add filler material
This isn't really needed, but seems to help strengthen the glue. The kind of material often suggested is rabbit/deer poop (yes, their dried and ground droppings) and finely ground plant matter. Animal fur (like your cat's fallen fur) could also be used. This is NOT necessary at all
  • [OPTIONAL] Add fat, tallow, or beeswax
This is only to make it more flexible and easy to work with, but is also absolutely unnecessary
  • Mix thoroughly and then let it cool a bit
It doesn't seem like you should let it boil too much or at all, since there's also the risk of it catching fire. That seems to be absolutely dangerous
  • Store it on a stick
Use a stick to grab/roll a bit on the end, cool it so it solidifies and then get some more. Eventually you'll have the tip full of pitch glue to carry around
[/list]

The proportion of sap to charcoal is up for debate, but it seems to be 4 resin to 1 charcoal/filler, or even 2 resin to 1 charcoal. This isn't really really something easy to mass produce, so I think that for game purposes we can ignore the charcoal and filler. They could be made optional ingredients in order to "teach", but you could accidentally be using them when you don't really need to.

Some videos:

Primitive, no fillers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-5E_aGFmW0
Uses a frying pan, but explains the whole process and shows use of resin as "bandage": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr1tQuq1rIs
You can see how flammable the resin is about 6:00 on this one, only purifying resin to be used later: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOxwFwahpwg?t=360

Some sources (there's a lot more, but these are enough):

https://www.survival-manual.com/pine-pitch-glue.php
Using double boiler method, with pictures: http://www.primitiveways.com/pine_pitch_stick.html

What about the medicine?

Remember when I mentioned that pines ooze out the sap to protect them from infections and bugs? It seems that those properties extend to humans as well! Besides the melted resin "bandage" which can be used to close wounds and stop bleeding, it also has some properties such as "antiseptic, astringent, anti-inflammatory, antibacterial". Sound familiar? They sure are :)

Rather than simply use the raw or purified resin, one could possibly make a salve. The steps are simply: Heat resin with oil (resin is oil-soluble) in a double boiler, then strain it to remove impurities, and finally heat it again with beeswax. One substitute for the olive oil is some herb-infused oil, of which yarrow is mentioned around as commonly used (and is in the game already). It might need a bit more research, but it seems that you can also make oil from birch-bark (holy crap, this tree is a godsend!). I'm willing to roleplay the existing Bark-water as oil, but we have plenty of menu space in cooking, really.

I'm at a loss in regards to beeswax, but it seems some vegans (I'm a vegan but I'm not into that stuff) make healing salves using plant oils and some substitutes like cocoa butter (lol), bayberry wax and some other exotic stuff not relevant to Finland. The beeswax also acts as a preservative, so it can spoil. Perhaps using milk or just ignoring this detail?

While it seems silly to even mention the salve, what if we could emulate it? :) I'm not sure if it's possible, but what if we create a HERB which does not grow anywhere at all and is only possible to be created using a cooking or crafting recipe? This would make it possible to use it as seasoning (silly, I know), but would also let you use it along with bandages, thus getting its healing effects as defined in the herb file! If possible, this could in theory be expanded to other plants and herbs, though its only use would be to make your supply of leaves/herbs last longer, maybe.

This "hack" could be used for soap as well, but does it make sense?

Sources:

Short description of uses: https://survivalsherpa.wordpress.com/2015/02/05/16-uses-of-sticky-pine-sap-for-wilderness-survival-and-self-reliance/
Very detailed and scientific: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5434829/
Pine resin salve: https://theherbalacademy.com/make-pine-resin-salve/
Birch oil: http://ettebo.se/en/how-to-make-birch-oil/

Conclusion

Pines and birches are the best. It's very simple to collect resin and it can then be used as a makeshift bandage, to stop bleeding, is antibacterial, and it can also be made into a healing salve. There is some overlap between pine pitch glue and tar, but unless we want to make soap it doesn't seem worth it to distinguish them. Also, tar seems too much of a hassle compared to how easy pitch glue is to make.

It seems that Neanderthals used to make birch-bark pitch glue, but I haven't gotten around to those methods and how it differs from resin. I would assume that you can't just substitute resin for bark and get the same results, though.

Sorry for the long post, but this was fun to learn about! :D

Edit: Most importantly for the recipe, I think making pitch glue from resin's waiting time should be reduced from the \8h\. It's actually a relatively quick process,but you'll have to keep an eye on it in order to not screw it up

Edit2: I've tried making a recipe that creates a custom herb, but it's not working. I'd appreciate some tips for making it work. One problem I found is that it has to be a leaf or flower in order to be used in treatment, unless we make a "herb" that can be threshed for an appropriate amount of leaves/flowers corresponding to the weight of the salve. I guess it could then be put in a bowl or something?
« Last Edit: December 29, 2018, 08:33:34 AM by Signatus »

Brygun

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« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2018, 01:05:48 AM »

Sorry for the long post, but this was fun to learn about! :D


Education is a vital aspect of life.

I have long looked at Unreal World as having enough realism to teach survival methods. That's one reason I don't use as much "game balance" as others choose. Things like simple cordage exist which makes survival, and thus the game, so much easier.

I would rather have friends alive by having played an educating game then friends dying with memories an entertaining inaccurate game.

Its why I no long like Bear Grylls and don't buy his products. Things like jump off a cliff make for sensational TV while teaching people things that can get them killed. A survival show should have a better focus. Example: Les Stroud's Survivor Man and numerous youtubers like Far North Bushcraft and Survival, Survival Lilly, Corporal's Corner to name but a few.

>>>>

I will reveiw Signatus's information detail. Thank you for posting it. Afterall I did ask for it.

>>>>


For those who might be interested youtube allows one to collect videos into a playlist. The following is my collection of "Outdoor" related videos. ~360 videos. You will find reference to things that ended up in the mod.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLa3rCY8IM8d2nnaEH0hu7pq-iFKC1m6sY
« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 01:10:53 AM by Brygun »

Brygun

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« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2018, 01:43:24 AM »
Single file update for Barkware.

Based on the recent material from Signatus.

Cooling times for both pine and birch-bark lowered. Pine is lowered to 2 hours like in the video. birch-bark to 4 hours.

Pine now has a branch consumed for charcoal, though not patchwise. Represents a small amount of wood.

Pine now calls for 2 rocks to have a grinding surface.

For both pine and birch-bark Im satisfied with a rock as a digging tool. Shovel in the game is needed for big projects like pit traps, charcoaling mounds and wells. Shallow digging is all that is needed for the pots in the glue making recipes. Shallow can be done with rocks... technically the right shaped rock... with a chisel like end. Those are fairly common so I dont think they need to be a tool.

Likewise shallow digging can be done with so many other tools even a knife. A rock in a recipe is pretty low cost and does give a line for explaining something.


Brygun

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« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2018, 01:48:12 AM »
On herbs I haven't tried anything about coding them.

A glue bandage does sound like it is possible but you would need fire at the time to apply it.

We have washed bandages to reduce bandage needs, or rather make them reusable to honorable players.

KKarlssoNN

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« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2018, 01:48:21 AM »
Subscribed!

Signatus

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« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2018, 02:48:14 AM »
On herbs I haven't tried anything about coding them.

Just a quick update: I was able to make a pine salve "herb" which has topical medicinal properties so it can be used along with bandages or cleaning wounds, and it exists nowhere in the game world unless you make it. The only thing breaking immersion is the fact that only leaves or flowers can be used for it so we have to create a "bunch/fistful of pine salve flowers/leaves". I haven't tried using the [name:] tag to try and override it, but I assume it won't get rid of the "bunch" part.

Would it be better to make it a cooking recipe, so that it has to be held in a container? That way you'd keep it in bowls, which at least makes some sense. You could carry a cup of it with you when travelling if you have big quantities stored and you'd be good when it comes to medicine.

Maybe add a spoilage tag to not make it last forever?

This could be extended to other plants, I suppose. It shouldn't be too easy to prepare, though!

Brygun

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« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2018, 03:06:35 AM »
Im now working on the lamellar as Jeb posted in the previous thread.

There is a graphics call that I don't think I have:

[TILEGFX:fw-lamelpce]

Can anyone locate that? Post it to this thread if you can. Also, a link to the source thread may also speed up writing  other armor recipes.


>>>>>>>

Glad to hear on the herb

Its not such a big deal if there is the words like bunch or fistful around.


[SPOILAGE:0] turns off spoiling.

We are talking about the stuff that turns into amber so if not 0 the spoilage could be big, like 180 or 360.

One game balance matter, which I don't normally focus on, is that the source pine clumps have to be searched for. Instead you get these clumps pretty quick.

I might change the pine tar step to something like "Search for pine tar" and have people spend 1 hour or more with low/zero effort to mark them searching the woods for it.



Signatus

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« Reply #44 on: December 30, 2018, 03:21:31 AM »
Im now working on the lamellar as Jeb posted in the previous thread.

There is a graphics call that I don't think I have:

[TILEGFX:fw-lamelpce]

Can anyone locate that? Post it to this thread if you can. Also, a link to the source thread may also speed up writing  other armor recipes.

I'm willing to bet the fw is for Finn's Wilderness modpack, but I can't find a download link...?

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/urwforum/the-finn-39-s-wilderness-living-modpack-v1-3-t8082.html

Quote
One game balance matter, which I don't normally focus on, is that the source pine clumps have to be searched for. Instead you get these clumps pretty quick.

I might change the pine tar step to something like "Search for pine tar" and have people spend 1 hour or more with low/zero effort to mark them searching the woods for it.

What would be an appropriate amount to get each time, though? Remember, you need #5# to make the pitch glue. Would a tapping mechanism as an alternative but more complex method of gathering it be appropriate?

I guess one could just search for resin while waiting for other stuff to prepare ;)