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Messages - Brygun

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1216
The biggest confusion for me in this thread is that Sami is the name of the developer of the software and appears Sami is also a cultural group in northern Finland.

So yes... we can pin this on Sami.


1217
Suggestions / Re: How come I can burn down forests while it's raining?
« on: January 24, 2019, 05:59:31 PM »
It might also matter on how the zoom out map works. If it generates its tile x/y is Z only at world creation then its not going to affect the zoomed out map. I suspect that is how it works mostly on a guess that was the easier to code many years ago before modding was a consideration.

Clearing a forest to ground could be used to improve zoomed out sight lines. For that to work the zoomed out map tile data would need to be updated each time you went to the map and moved on it. This is less likely to have been considered years ago.

Changing the tile tap to say "ground" would be noticed by recipe calls (at least I think so). Currently there aren't ones coming to mind that want the 100x100(?) map tile to be Ground. There are a few looking for the 2x2m square to be "ground". There are some that look for the 100x100 to be "mire" such as the bog ore recipe.


1218
Modding / Re: Torch with no light?
« on: January 24, 2019, 05:43:17 PM »
+1 with Privateer's response.

In this topic the word "lightable" is itself a bit confusing as it can mean
= Generating light by which the character can see (as in light in the dark)
= Starting a fire (as in light a fire)


If it were possible a fire starter would count as a big bonus to starting a fire. The bonus does exist in the code. In doing agriculture patches of fires for ash you will see the "the nearby fire helps a lot" (or similar) come up.

I believe the original intention was that the fire starter would also allow you to light a newly made torch without having to fully start a fire. (I think that was an idea)

Fire carriers did exist in the real world but my understanding is that they were rather bulky. You need enough fuel to smolder for hours. Then you needed a container to insulate the smoldering material so it didnt burn other things.

To my knowledge the practical use of a fire carriers is rare for solo people but might be more practical for groups. Imagine a village on the go might have 1+ fire carriers along with their tents, pots, food stores and so forth.


1219
Warning... I digress... on why there is no iron crucible

In the size scale of the iron work here it is shaping by hammering rather than pouring into a mold. Iron/steel poured is actually going to be weaker vs the folding/twisting used to create layers of different properties.

In the iron creation a bloomery is used to heat the ore to bring out impurities while the iron is at its welding temperature will bond iron particle to iron particle. It takes additional pounding on the hot iron to drive out random impurities. Optionally then to add a controlled amount of carbon (an impurity) to get a useable large piece of steel.

Some iron work, like some Norse swords, would  take two bars of iron (relatively pure iron) and two bars of steel (iron with that controlled carbon) as a starter. Then the bars are heated while they are twisted together. Then fold over. Then twist and fold. Repeat as desired. The result is a very beautiful oscillation of dull and shiny throughout the blade. The dull areas are "soft" iron which has give and bend to absorb energy while the shiny "hard" steel areas keep the shape from deflecting to much.

Axes are typically made of shaping of soft iron head by hammering to shape. A handle hole is made by splitting the hot iron with a cool wedge then expanding and forming by hammering. One method of making the cutting edge is to make a thin narrow bit of steel which, as impurity/alloy control is difficult, is easier to make. The iron head on the cutting side is notched open. The steel is inserted. The iron notch sides are then heated and hammered onto the steel. The iron notch material and the iron in the steel will weld together.


Meanwhile....

Copper and bronze can be decently made by pouring into a mold.

Which compared to the iron methods for a sword or axe head described above is much easier.

Coming out of the mold their might be some follow up work like trimming with a {Knife} <Small knife>. That could be coded into the mold using recipe.

The mold could be considered a "held" or "freeze" item so that it isn't consumed in making the object in the mold. I requested that code option in the suggestion forums for things like this.

Copper and bronze melt, and thus weld, at lower temperatures. That is why mankind discovered them first.

Iron took the technology of charcoal and bellows to work. To process the iron ore you needed to get to super high temperatures which is why you see the bloomery, charcoal and bellows

The copper/bronze work at lower temperatures should mean leaving out charcoal. You could use firewood instead. This means the characters don't put those days into charcoal making.


For a supply of molds I might suggest

Axe head mold
Sword mold
Arrow head mold (makes 5 at a time)
Spear head mold
Decoration mold (makes 2 at a time)

Im not sure about whether the rings even would require a mold as the decoration mold for brooches could easily fit some circles for rings... or you would problaby be better off casting a wire which is then cut and bent into rings.


Note: I think it might be best to limit the bronze axe to just the hand axe type. The more specialized axes benefit from iron's properties to do their task as a heavy hitter or by allowing a carving axe to be thin yet still strong.


1220
Had a quick look at links in the BAC thread on the copper.

If you havent thought of it yet...

Suggest copper making be about pouring so using clay to simulate the mold. Clay is already in BAC.

Bronze likewise might use clay molds. Copper + Tin + heat + mold

Weapons could require whetstones and maybe hammers to improve the edge

1221
General Discussion / Re: How to survive (maybe) wolves
« on: January 24, 2019, 02:28:30 AM »
Novrus of Novrus's jounral died at least 3 times vs wolves.

It was at his homestead so the one he survived made much use of shooting out the sauna window.

Plus the homestead anti-bear and anti-glutton traps really helped as well.

1222
Suggestions / Re: How come I can burn down forests while it's raining?
« on: January 24, 2019, 02:25:30 AM »
I was trying to burn down the forest when it started raining.

I bet you swear it was for agriculture!  ;)


1223
Mod Releases / Re: Making salt out of sea water
« on: January 24, 2019, 02:23:22 AM »
At that point it's more like farming :)

It does seem absolutely impractical, even if we ignored the rain. Unless there is some other method that I'm missing:

Quote
WILD SPICES
Salt was made on Ice sea in the Middle-Ages. I suppose it was a luxury item in Iron-Age and people used herbs from nature to replace it or / and increase preservation.
http://www.katajahovi.org/en/ironage.html

But what does "made on ice sea" mean? Would it be possible to mine highly saline ice chunks? Lol

Well... artic circle glaciers becoming icebergs would have in their ice the salt % from there, whatever it is. I question whether the icebergs could do a 180 turn around the Danish Straits and flow to Finland. I suspect, though not certain, the Baltic sea tends to flow away from Finland toward the North Sea. I digress...



1224
Well the advanced iron and ball iron hammer also call for an axe haft. It was picked as already in the recipe list. In their case it represents a more specific quality of inner core wood of a large tree with better shaping then the low tech whittling a slender trunk.

I do concede that the stone hammer is on the same tech level as stone axe so matching the slender rod for that also made sense.

Leaving stone hammer as an axe haft would have required felling a large tree then processing via Lumber down to a short quarter log. Which makes sense for quality tools but not for basic 'primitive' style play.

1225
Mod Releases / Re: Making salt out of sea water
« on: January 23, 2019, 08:14:16 PM »
"Mining" salt in the medieval times only occurred in very few places and AFAIK Finland wasn't one of them.

The other method of old school salt production is flat pools. You let in salt water then close it off (or hand carry it in). The sun will eventually boil the water off leaving a cake of salt. You can carry this though often getting some bit of dirt. Time frame on this process is huge. Raining screws it up too. So this method might not eve be valid for Finland. Which is probably true as it was rare. The dessert regions with little rainfall would be okay with the pool.

1226
Mod Releases / Re: Making salt out of sea water
« on: January 23, 2019, 08:11:09 PM »
I feel that the advance adventures are more about making you move around and get out of our homestead and explore

Yep, there are. Tour de la Finland.



1227
update

minor

Stone hammer changed from needing an axe haft to using a slender trunk


1228
And today I clue in that maybe Kkarlson was suggesting we use slender trunk on the stone hammer


1229
There videos on youtube from "Thegn Thrand" for sure on testing bronze weapons. There may also be some from Schollagladitoria and Shadiversity.

Bronze can get a sharp edge yet the edge on the softer metal is more frail. Since it doesn't need to be heated as high to smith bronze weapons also tend to bend during the impact levels of combat.

UrW deals with weapon breakage by reducing quality factors of weapons.

We dont have a way of, afaik, to tell the game to accelerate the rate of decay of the weapon. For example parrying with a bronze sword vs an iron Nerjpez scimitar is going to wear out the bronze faster.

I would therefore suggest considering giving bronze weapons either or both:
- a penalty to crafting so they tend to come out "rough" and thus closer to broken
- reduced weapon impact stats,  1 -2 points off to estimate the average reduced state


>>>>

There was overlaps of iron and bronze. At that time the availability and skills in iron were rare. In UrW the iron availability is very much there.

>>>>

In terms of making the bronze with its lower heating points you may consider leaving out the bloomery. You could check on bronze making to see if they needed charcoal with its higher burns or if they could use just wood. Likewie with a bellows.

Copper smelting may have been discovered from large and long lasting hearth fires (cooking and heating a home) being able to melt the green copper out of malachite rocks.

>>>>

Remember that Bronze needs copper and tin. So you should source in tin somehow.




1230
Mod Releases / Re: Making salt out of sea water
« on: January 22, 2019, 08:47:21 PM »
This is a possible inclusion for the BAC, if Signatus will agree.

Id like to hear a bit of feedback on the work vs price/utility.

My own character Novrus is stuck in his quest to get a bag of salt.

Which also raises the question...

Is the player made salt something that be used to satisfy the "Salt from the coast" quest?




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