Messages

106

General Discussion / Re: my first proper hunting kill

« on: April 28, 2021, 12:52:05 PM »

i have also claimed my first settlement when rng blessed me with an settlement with a single person. im not sure if i should bother with planting the seeds from it. and i dont really want to live in the buildings as its not a good location for my hunter too far from water and other towns

Only a very naughty person steals a settlement from an old man.

107

Suggestions / Re: Adventurer Gear

« on: April 28, 2021, 12:43:51 PM »

At least he has a cloak, I have seen an adventurer who was butt naked. He also refused to wear any clothing I traded to him, so it was probably some philosophical stance of his.

But I'd like to see adventurers have a bit more warrior like getup compared to woodsmen and hunters. Helm and shield typically, maybe some body armor occasionally

108

Gameplay questions / Re: Can the player character be killed in one shot?

« on: April 13, 2021, 10:20:33 PM »

I'd presume so. There are instant kill wounds in the base system of Harnmaster and in practice you can insta kill mobs yourself in URW. I have made countless insta kills with chance neck or eye hits (even against something like otherwise unharmed bears), but occasionally you see one with something like chest hit as well.

109

General Discussion / Re: Tree sap/syrup in spring?

« on: April 10, 2021, 12:49:45 PM »

There's actually an article on birch sap on website of the National Museum: https://www.kansallismuseo.fi/fi/kuukauden-esineet/2008/mahlakourut-kalannista

Stated uses:

Drinking it straight
Allowing it to ferment into mild alcoholic brew (with 1.1% sugar this seems rather shaky option without reinforcing it)

Flavoring barley gruel
Flavoring small beer

It's also stated that it can be reduced into syrup, but it's not very definite if this is actual historical usage from the wording. The page relates a statement from the Kalevala composer (and botanist) Lönnrot for 60:1 ratio for birch syrup. If birch sap has 1.1% sugar in it then 60 kilograms would have 0.66 kg sugar so that sounds about right.

110

General Discussion / Re: Hardest things to find...

« on: April 10, 2021, 12:38:36 PM »

@Matti-patti did you see Njerpez encounters post by @Edico
He reports to have found both ango and throwing axe on his extensive Njerpez camp purging.

Damn. And you only need to clear 40 camps for it. Now that you mentioned it, I think I have seen someone say they saw one in the Njerp slave starting scenario.

111

Suggestions / Re: Using Fishing Skill to Find Good Fishing Spots

« on: April 01, 2021, 04:56:50 PM »

1) Learning patterns of migratory fish (even something like Pike-Perch can be a local migrator with preferred wintering and nesting areas).
2) Learning good and bad times to fish for particular species of fish.
3) Learning good and if not bad at least less good methods of fishing (for particular fish) depending on time of the year and for example water temperature.

Perhaps bit broader than what was being talked about, but fishing can be bit more than just tossing the hook and bait into water and hoping for best. That being said, I think that falls more into the category of hunting elk during snow crust that Sami talked about in latest development update than roll of dice. There could also be a more extended array of fishing implements, such as a weighted line for the rod for fishing deeper.

112

Development News / Re: The Moon and The Crust

« on: March 31, 2021, 06:22:50 PM »

Moonlight cycle and animal and NPC winter movement being normalized with the player sound great. Overall looks like next one is turning out to be quite an update.

113

General Discussion / Re: Geographical inspiration for the Unreal north

« on: March 25, 2021, 05:28:09 PM »

I always thought URW simply re-imagined Finland as a peninsula jutting into sea similar to the Baltic. So it's not quite Bothnia but a fictional extension of it eastward. My reasoning was that because the ability to drink sea water in URW is intentional per some old post by Sami (Baltic is more of a brackish lake than a saline ocean) then the north coast which is geographically linked to the west coast and also has water you can drink must also be surrounded by something akin to the Baltic.

114

Suggestions / Re: Live fish sometimes visible in nearby water

« on: March 25, 2021, 05:07:21 PM »

I'd love to see spear/club fishing elevated into seasonally effective fishing method. In Finland this is done in late autumn on a boat with a light source, so hopefully tridenting from your punt with a torch in Fall/Dirt month will be at least somewhat effective method of catching big fish someday.

115

Solved'n'fixed bug reports / Re: Impossible trade, foreign traders' carry limit.

« on: March 22, 2021, 02:37:09 PM »

This was deliberately introduced some time ago. The previous version was that when you overloaded a foreign trader's inventory with furs he simply dropped the extra to the ground. You could then pick them up and reclaim them as yours. I took to simply deleting the extra in such case.

You don't need to bother with foreign traders if you want fine armor though. The best places in URW to find fine armor are Sartola, Kiesse and Koivula. When they first spawn they don't have much if any metal armor, but after several months after having first visited them their stock gets refreshed and they get tons of metal armor, including many fines (and at least Sartola and Koivula get occasional masterwork). For example, in my current game I have one of those cabin, sauna and storehouse style small settlements where an Old Kiesseläis Man peddles fine habergeon and fine mail leggings right next to each other.

116

General Discussion / Re: Companions won't fell trees, why?

« on: March 21, 2021, 10:45:22 PM »

I have never seen this myself, but wasn't there some kind of problem with the companions derping out when there were some bear skull totem pines around? What about animals tied to a tree?

117

General Discussion / Re: Quest Reward Bugged?

« on: March 21, 2021, 10:05:27 PM »

You get nothing until you go practice the said skill, yes.

118

Gameplay questions / Re: Trading with Foreign Traders

« on: March 21, 2021, 09:09:41 PM »

Assuming the prices on the wiki are fully up to date: 80*1.25 = 100 for fine longbow, 14,4*5*1.25 = 90 for 5 fine broadheads, for total of 190. Decent reindeer fur is 200.

It does make certain sense to act as middleman though. For example, you could sell your food or extra weapons to villagers for furs, which would indirectly allow you to trade weapons and food to foreign traders. Or you could sell your bigger furs to villagers for winter lynx/beaver/arctic fox furs to make your fur stack more valuable pound for pound when dealing with foreign traders. Or if you see foreign traders near your settlement, you could go load off your large furs for jewelry and random weapons, then use those to buy stuff (possibly the said weight/value effective winter furs) from the villagers. It allows you to concentrate your wealth into more portable form generally. This is useful both because it allows easier management of long shopping trips or just allows you to always have that fat stack of wealth available when you meet foreign trader that has something you really want far out in the wilderness, or it allows you to get past foreign traders' carrying limits (they won't accept more furs than what they can individually carry).

119

Suggestions / Re: Buff metal armor, nerf leather and furs

« on: March 21, 2021, 05:03:52 PM »

Alright, I spent some time looking up how damage model works in Harnmaster. I am not previously familiar with the system and don't have any rulebooks, I just read someone's hopefully accurate player's handbook style rundown of it (here: https://batintheattic.blogspot.com/2020/04/a-walk-through-harnmaster-combat-part-2.html). Previously only technical description related to URW's damage model I had read was the short bit on URW wiki which claims weapons get 1d2 damage dice per their damage value, but I knew this to be wrong from experience since weapons can regularly penetrate more then 2x their damage value of armor.

It seems what actually happens is that the relative results of the attacker's and defender's rolls are compared and then you get to roll 1-3d6 + weapon damage value vs. armor (with extra d6 if the defender counterstrikes or ignores). I'm not sure how directly this is translated into URW but it matches my experience of actually playing the game quite well. As I wrote before I think 10-12 represents well protected but by no means immune while 18 starts getting to the point a part is immunized. A Njerp with a scimitar with 5 edge would indeed struggle against 10-12 protection, though he could get through even 12 if he gets above average roll on 2d6. And a 3d6 roll with decent result would be required to get past 18.


That aside, why I'm really posting again here is that I put together some figures for comparing armors as systems with the various modifications I suggested here. I assume that both mail and iron currently get +1 to both point and edge protection at masterwork, just like leather does. I also assume that there is no hidden buff or anything similar specific to metal armor, in my experience a point of protection is a point of protection no matter where it comes from, but I admit I have not tested that and it's just an impression formed over course of normal gameplay. All furs will be regular quality bear furs, all other items are assumed to be masterworks, so this is intended to demonstrate maximum achievable protection with these sets.

The first set is the one I previously described and will be referred to as "battlewear". It consists of: Leather cap, fur hood, spectacle helm, long mail cowl, cloth cowl, fur shirt, leather shirt, leather cuirass, fur overcoat, fur mittens, mail mittens, leather forearm guards, coudes, leather belt, fur leggings, leather leggings, kneecops, leather shin guards, leather boots, woolen socks, woolen footrags and linen footrags. It weights 72 pounds.

The second set is what I call "mail set". It consists of: Leather cap, fur hood, spectacle helm, long mail cowl, cloth cowl, fur shirt, mail habergeon, coudes, leather forearm guards, fur mittens, mail mittens, leather belt, fur leggings, mail leggings, leather boots, woolen socks, woolen footrags and linen footrags. It weights 81,7 pounds, significantly more than the battlewear. It also has significant cost: masterwork mail habergeon and leggings alone cost 1000 squirrel furs. I don't think I need to count the price of every garment in the battlewear set to tell this is much more expensive. It is intended to represent a realistic heavy armor set, the kind which warrior would wear if he could buy it.

This is the protection that the battlewear currently has:

Skull: 22 point,  27 edge
Face: 12 point, 14 edge
Neck: 10 point, 14 edge
Shoulders: 16 point, 19 edge
Upper arms: 10 point, 10 edge
Elbows: 15 point, 17 edge
Arms: 13 point, 13 edge
Hands: 9 point, 12 edge
Chest: 14 point, 14 edge
Waist: 14 point, 14 edge
Hips: 21 point, 21 edge
Groin: 21 point, 21 edge
Thighs: 10 point, 10 edge
Knees: 19 point, 21 edge
Shins: 15 point, 15 edge
Feet: 7 point, 10 edge

Pretty decent right? If you are feeling silly (more silly than to use three pairs of socks as foot armor) I suppose you could throw couple of tunics or undershirts there as the upper arms and thighs are the weakest spots to which something can be done. This would give those areas 12 point and 14 edge protection. It would still be lighter than the mail set.

This is what the mail set currently has:

Skull: 22 point, 27 edge
Face: 12 point, 14 edge
Neck: 10 point, 14 edge
Shoulders: 15 point, 21 edge
Upper arms: 9 point, 12 edge
Elbows: 12 point, 14 edge
Arms: 10 point, 10 edge
Hands: 9 point, 12 edge
Chest: 9 point, 12 edge
Waist: 9 point, 12 edge
Hips: 22 point, 28 edge
Groin: 22 point, 28 edge
Thighs: 9 point, 12 edge
Knees: 9 point, 12 edge
Shins: 13 point, 16 edge
Feet: 7 point, 10 edge

The extra protection on the hip from the combination habergeon and leggings is more than a bit wasted since it was already so high. The shoulder is very iffy too. The upper arms and thighs are better protected, but the battlewear has enough free weight to more than make up for it. The torso protection is weak compared to the battlewear. This set is a downgrade: you pay and wear more for less.

In case of the suggestion from the opening post.

In this situation:

Regular fur/leather: 2 point, 2 edge
Masterwork fur/leather: 2 point, 2 edge

Regular/masterwork cloth of all types: 1 point, 1 edge

Regular mail: 7 point, 10 edge
Masterwork mail: 9 point, 12 edge

Regular iron: 10 point, 12 edge
Masterwork iron: 12 point, 14 edge

This is what the mail set would have then:

Skull: 26 point, 31 edge
Face: 14 point, 16 edge
Neck: 12 point, 15 edge
Shoulders: 20 point, 26 edge
Upper arms: 11 point, 14 edge
Elbows: 14 point, 16 edge
Arms: 6 point, 6 edge
Hands: 11 point, 14 edge
Chest: 11 point, 14 edge
Waist: 11 point, 14 edge
Hips: 24 point, 30 edge
Groin: 24 point, 30 edge
Thighs: 11 point, 14 edge
Knees: 11 point, 14 edge
Shins: 13 point, 16 edge
Feet: 5 point, 5 edge

This should hopefully make it clear what I meant when I said that overall buff to armor was not the intention. Even when mail is buffed to 9 point 12 edge at masterwork, the concurrent nerf to furs and leathers means that for the weight this still isn't really better than the current battlewear (though it would be better than the nerfed battlewear, which is the point). Much of the extra protection is again wasted on the already very heavily protected parts. The biggest benefit is probably that the face, neck and hands have now better possible protection. On the other hand the existing weak spot in feet is made more acute, while a new one is introduced in the forearms (needing either rare lamellar bracers or heavy double undershirt and fur overcoat to shore up). The torso is still worse protected.

It's not a problem of snowballing protection either from making the mail better. Both sets have lot that could be added to them, it's weight that determines how much can be added to either set.

In case of the minimal suggestion from my previous post.

In this situation:

Regular fur/leather: 2 point, 2 edge
Masterwork fur/leather: 2 point, 2 edge

Regular/masterwork cloth of all types: 1 point, 1 edge

Regular mail: 6 point, 9 edge
Masterwork mail: 7 point, 10 edge

Iron is left as it is.

This is what the mail set would have then:

Skull: 21 point, 26 edge
Face: 11 point, 13 edge
Neck: 10 point, 13 edge
Shoulders: 16 point, 22 edge
Upper arms: 9 point, 12 edge
Elbows: 11 point, 13 edge
Arms: 6 point, 6 edge
Hands: 9 point, 12 edge
Chest: 9 point, 12 edge
Waist: 9 point, 12 edge
Hips: 20 point, 26 edge
Groin: 20 point, 26 edge
Thighs: 9 point, 12 edge
Knees: 9 point, 12 edge
Shins: 11 point, 14 edge
Feet: 5 point, 5 edge

This is actually slightly weaker than the existing version of this set, so we are now talking about nerf to overall protection.

This is what the battlewear would have then:

Skull: 21 point, 26 edge
Face: 11 point, 13 edge
Neck: 10 point, 13 edge
Shoulders: 13 point, 16 edge
Upper arms: 6 point, 6 edge
Elbows: 11 point, 13 edge
Arms: 8 point, 8 edge
Hands: 9 point, 12 edge
Chest: 8 point, 8 edge
Waist: 8 point, 8 edge
Hips: 12 point, 12 edge
Groin: 12 point, 12 edge
Thighs: 6 point, 6 edge
Knees: 15 point, 17 edge
Shins: 8 point, 8 edge
Feet: 5 point, 5 edge

This is worse than the mail set now. Even if you throw in the 10 pounds worth of clothes, it's not enough to shore up the differences. However I think it's worse to rather marginal degree in comparison to the mail set, and again masterwork body armor and leggings are very expensive and rare. Even if the base mail is limited to 6 point 9 edge, I'd still consider giving metal armor +2 bonus to both point and edge at masterwork.

It's also worth noting that in the minimalist scenario regular, rough and possibly fine mail would remain questionable as I pegged this at best possible protection.

120

Suggestions / Re: Buff metal armor, nerf leather and furs

« on: March 19, 2021, 10:39:01 PM »

For practical experience, I think the first step you need to fulfill when fighting humans is certain level of protection to abdomen. The instant killing disemboweling attack seems to trigger quite easily with low level of edge protection. I think about 6 or so is generally enough to stop it, perhaps bit more. Should still be achievable with the nerfed leathers, though it needs one extra layer of protection.

Over the years my standard heavy battlewear has evolved to be this: Leather cap, fur hood, spectacle helm, long mail cowl, linen or wool cowl if I can find one, fur shirt, leather shirt, leather cuirass, fur overcoat, fur mittens, mail mittens, leather forearm guards, coudes, leather belt (it's light... so why not), fur leggings, leather leggings, kneecops, leather shin guards, leather boots and as many socks and footrags the game allows me to wear. 72 lbs all together, assuming a cloth cowl and all three socks. And a shield. Always a shield, even if I don't know how to block with it in melee (I normally use two hander anyway and take off the shield once I have an enemy as an arrow sponge in front of me). The fur is always bear fur, I don't feel the extra edge and blunt defense of masterwork generic fur is worth the loss of the point defense.

It's already very heavy protection, most characters will go over 10% encumbrance with weapons, I'm not quite sure I'd use even that much if there wasn't the opportunity to cool off and reduce your fatigue by backing off while dodging/blocking/counterstriking. As you might have noticed there is no cloak there as a modest weight saving, so I'm not about to use additional metal body armor there either. If the mail leggings had foot protection I'd definitely find room for them though, and that would allow me to use the high shield position more comfortably. Function wise I can pretty much guarantee that no single hit will really put my fight into unrecoverable state if I fight smart unless it is to the eye, though if I get dragged down fighting multiple opponents in melee alone I can get taken down by combination of fatigue and multiple hits in the 10-20% damage range. I have gotten damaged even through my hip, for couple of percentage or something. The hip has 18-21 protection depending on how many leather masterworks I find.

That being said I have not fought terribly lot in my current game since the Njerps apparently moved all east. I did clear one camp I saw near Reemi territory with couple of dogs but that involved only couple of hits on me, both minor and one of them was definitely one of those hip hits. That battle was really a series of several three-on-ones as the Njerps came to me in perfectly disjointed fashion always allowing me to finish off the one I was fighting before another one found his way to the melee (also only two archers and they came last and breathless, though one nearly killed my dog). I have fought quite a bit against wolves however, having killed at least dozen of them. The above setup seems fully immune to them.

I have recollection of two specific events in past versions (but both post Steam release) that disillusioned me about metal armor. One involved a Njerp stabbing me with a knife (can't recall type) through mail and at least one but probably two layers of furs and leathers. I recall wondering whether there is really only 1d2 damage die per weapon power. The second involved an arrow to the knee through probably couple of layers of leather/furs and a kneecop. This also taught me about the power of the shield. The introduction of the quality bonuses was another blow to metal armor to me. Masterwork metal armor only gets +1 point defense bonus, three masterwork leathers give you total of +3 (I'm way more exited to see foreign trader carry masterwork leather than masterwork anything else).

I'm fine with not giving as much extra to metal armor as I suggested. However even if leather and fur are reduced to 2 point and 2 edge max regardless of their quality, I'd still at very minimum buff mail +1 to both point and edge to keep habergeon (22lbs) and hauberk (25lbs) more clearly superior to fur cloak, fur shirt and leather shirt combination (about 25lbs).