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Messages - caethan

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61
General Discussion / Re: "The Challenge"
« on: February 20, 2018, 07:35:03 PM »
I've been trying this out and found a very useful tip that I may have to try during normal gameplay:  using torches to carry fire with you as you travel.  Lighting a fire with a torch never fails.  When it's raining and you're very cold, the six times you fail at firestarting without a torch might kill you.  Or at the very least, give you a frostbite.  I started keeping a stash of 4-6 torches and a dozen branches, with one lit while I traveled.  If I got cold, I'd find a log, drop a few branches on, and start it immediately.  Then while I warmed up, I'd cut down more branches and build up my torch stock.  Worked very well in tree-heavy terrain.

62
Mod Releases / Re: URW sufficiency mod
« on: February 17, 2018, 01:04:57 AM »
@Dungeon Smash I count 17 items in the tailoring menu --- is that too many for you?  I don't have any problem seeing them all on one page, but if people running at different resolutions are having trouble, I can split it up. 

63
General Discussion / Re: Probably the stupidest thing I’ve done in game.
« on: February 16, 2018, 05:39:09 PM »
Aw.  FYI, there's a new option in 3.50beta that will prevent such things from happening:

Quote
- added: BUTCHER_CONFIRMATION configuration option (defaults to NO)

        If the option is enabled a confirmation prompt appears if you try to butcher a carcass before skinning it.
        This is to avoid accidentally cutting up the whole carcass and losing the skin.

        To enable the option add the following line to urw_ini.txt setup file in your installation folder:
        [BUTCHER_CONFIRMATION:YES]

I should remember to go turn that on; I've done the same thing with hides before, although never with a bear fur!

64
Bug reports / Re: COOK_WEIGHT_DIV rounds down odd-valued nutrition
« on: February 15, 2018, 05:36:23 PM »
Oh interesting, I didn't realize it's related to the weight. 

65
Modding / Re: Strange nutrition when "drying" berries
« on: February 15, 2018, 05:42:27 AM »
Incidentally, the rounding doesn't happen when processing meat.  I pulled up my spreadsheet of meat nutrition values, and elk meat is normally 3 fat and 21 protein.  When smoked, the weight goes down to 1/8 the original (0.125 lbs) and the nutrients are 24 fat and 168 protein, no nutrient loss from rounding.  You do see the max nutrient thing, though, with dried bear meat.

66
Modding / Re: Strange nutrition when "drying" berries
« on: February 15, 2018, 05:38:59 AM »
Played with modded items and COOK_WEIGHT_DIV a bit, and it looks like odd values in the nutrients get rounded down before applying the modifier.  I made some grey sludge to test with instead of collecting berries:

Code: [Select]
.Grey sludge. *COOKERY* /1/
[SPOILAGE_DAYS:0]
[WATER:9]
[CARB:45]
[PROTEIN:4]
[FAT:3]
[WEIGHT:0.1]
If I use COOK_WEIGHT_DIV like this:
Code: [Select]
.Dried sludge. *COOKERY* /1/
{Grey sludge}  [remove] [roast]
[COOK_WEIGHT_DIV:3]then the original item has nutrients just as described, and the dried sludge has weight of 0.03333, just as expected, and water 24 (i.e., 8 * 3), carb 132 (i.e., 44 * 3), fat 6 (i.e., 2 * 3), and protein 12 (i.e., 4 * 3).

The same thing happens if I set one of the nutrients in the processing:
Code: [Select]
.Dried sludge. *COOKERY* /1/
{Grey sludge}  [remove] [roast]
[WATER:0]then I get 0 water as requested, but the odd nutrients get rounded down, so the output item has 44 carb and 2 fat. 

The other interesting bit is that if you set COOK_WEIGHT_DIV too high, you can trigger an overflow - nutrients aren't allowed to be higher than 255, so setting CARB:100 and COOK_WEIGHT_DIV:3 will result in a CARB:255 item and a loss of 1/6th of your nutrients. 

My interpretation of this is that the object nutrients are stored in 8 bits, but the low order bit gets dropped during cooking processing for some reason and isn't ever restored.

67
General Discussion / Re: Inconsistencies/problems with rope.
« on: February 14, 2018, 05:39:14 PM »
In the base (unmodded) game, the only way to get cordage is from hides (fur or leather) or by tearing up clothing.  As you say, it gives you something of a catch-22.  That said, there's ways to get hides without a bow:
  • If it's late spring or summer, just tear up your excess clothing.  Big old fur overcoat?  Don't need it in the summer, use it for cords.  Just make sure you replace it by winter.
  • When the water is clear, persistence hunting of game along riverbanks or large lakes is quite effective.  Chase game to the water's edge, then follow them along the edge until they're exhausted.  The riverbank makes it much easier to follow them, and they're likely to run back and forth repeatedly along the bank.  Once they're exhausted, throw rocks at them or just hit them over the head with your axe.
  • Javelin hunting is fairly effective - slightly lower range than a bow, but still works OK.
  • Trapping can get you small game quite effectively and early with light lever traps.  Two bird hides is a cord.  Even just keeping an eye out for squirrels, chasing them into trees, and throwing rocks at them can get you a cut and a small hide.  Big pit traps with a trap fence works well for elk or forest reindeer, but takes a lot of time to prepare.
  • There's a number of mods that add some sort of way to make low-quality cordage in the early game.  My self-sufficiency mod lets you soak branches to soften them and twist them into cords.  There's others that let you twine birch bark, or use spruce twigs, etc. for preserving meat.  If you really want to be an independent hermit I think some modding is really necessary - otherwise you have no way of getting metal objects or quite a lot of clothing.

68
Suggestions / Re: A lot of ideas to consider
« on: February 09, 2018, 06:43:55 PM »
A couple of these have been done before with modding:


69
Suggestions / Re: Ice skates
« on: February 07, 2018, 06:55:54 PM »
Apparently! 

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/01/080104-first-skates.html

Here's a discussion of some folks making skates from cow bones and trying them out:

http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/daily_living/text/ice_skates.htm

70
Gameplay questions / Re: Which one is the best flour?
« on: February 07, 2018, 06:12:48 PM »
As an aside, because there's a bug in lake reed size (see https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=899.0) a single lake reed plant produces nearly a pound of roots once threshed, making it by far the most calories per harvested and processed plant, at well over 1,000 per. 

71
Gameplay questions / Re: Which one is the best flour?
« on: February 07, 2018, 06:09:06 PM »
I'm the one who just went and updated the flour page on the wiki.  I did some testing with an object inspector to look at nutrition and such.  Grinding flour from grains, seeds, or roots keeps the same nutrition values as the original, as well as the same weight.  The carb, fat, and protein values given are percentages of the weight that is each nutrient (i.e., grams of nutrient per 100g weight). 

Barley gives the most nutritious flour, at ~1370 calories per pound.  Rye, clayweed, and lake reed flours are all above 1,000 calories per pound, while hemp (seed), marsh calla, and bogbean flours are all just below 1,000 calories per pound.  You can make flour from nettle, turnip, sorrel, and yarrow seeds, but it's much much less nutritious than the other kinds of flour. 

If you want to figure out what to plant for the most calories, then you need to account for the number of plants that can grow in each tile and the total number of calories produced by each plant.  Note too that you've got it backwards:  rye produces three fistfuls of grains, and barley produces two, not the other way around.  On a per-plant basis:

  • Rye produces 412 calories per plant (~1/3 pound of grains)
  • Broad beans produce 378 calories per plant (~3/4 pound of beans)
  • Barley produces 302 calories per plant (~1/5 pound of grains)
  • Hemp produces 218 calories per plant (~1/5 pound of seeds, ~1/7 pound of leaves)
  • Clayweed produces 143 calories per plant (~1/7 pound of seeds, ~1/13 pound of leaves)
  • Turnips produce 97 calories per plant (~2/3 pound root, negligible size seeds)
  • Peas produce 57 calories per plant (~1/7 pound of peas)
  • Nettle produces 23 calories per plant (~1/10 pound of leaves, negligible size seeds)
  • Sorrel and yarrow produce negligible calories per plant

But for planting, this ordering gets shifted again because you can plant many more turnips and grains in a single tile than beans:

  • Rye produces at most 10,288 calories per tile
  • Barley 7,560
  • Hemp 2,529
  • Turnip 1,944
  • Broad bean 1,892
  • Clayweed 711
  • Pea 284
  • Nettle 227
  • Sorrel and yarrow negligible

So:  grow barley if you want the best flour (most nutritious breads, porridges, and stews).  Grow rye if you want the most total calories of flour. 

72
Modding / Re: First modding attempt: Fried Turnips
« on: February 01, 2018, 05:12:29 AM »
Careful with the carb/fat values.  First off, they're currently non-functional, since the keywords need to be capitalized.  Second, that's going to be way too rich.  Raw turnips are 7% carbohydrate and 1% protein, while fat is 100% fat.   If you leave the keywords off (and ignoring the seasoning), that'll give you an output that's about 6% carbohydrate and 10% fat, for about 510-540 calories.  Normally cooking recipes will do all this math for you, unless you override them.  The way you're overriding them, fried turnips will be about four times as nutritious as their ingredients (about 2000 calories). 

73
Bug reports / COOK_WEIGHT_DIV can hit nutrition value cap
« on: January 31, 2018, 06:40:09 AM »
I've only found this bug in the base game with dried bear cuts, but I can replicate it with modded items very easily. 

A raw bear cut has protein:29.  Dried cuts have their weight divided by 10, and their nutrition values multiplied by 10 so that the final cut contains the same amount of nutrition as the original cut.  For most cuts this works fine. For the dried bear cut, the protein value should be 290, but is instead 255.  This is presumably because that value is stored in a uint8 (i.e., a single byte) and the largest value that can be stored is 255.  This means that bear cuts are slightly less nutritious than expected when dried.

I can replicate this with modded items:  a processing step with COOK_WEIGHT_DIV:15 and a reconstitution step with COOK_WEIGHT_DIV:0.066666667.  If I process a sheep cut (raw: 0/12/19) I get a lighter processed cut that's hit the nutrition cap: (0/180/255) instead of (0/180/285) as expected.  If I then try and reconstitute the cut, the loss is permanent, down to (0/12/17).

Realistically speaking, of course, none of carb/fat/protein should be above 100, as my understanding is that those values indicate the percentage by weight of each nutrient.  But not sure the best way to resolve the bug for now!

74
Bug reports / Starting flatbreads have no nutrition
« on: January 31, 2018, 05:29:52 AM »
Playing around with the cooking system and testing modded recipes using an object inspector, I noticed that the special "Flat rye bread" item characters occasionally start with has 0 carb, 0 fat, and 0 protein.  The normal "rye flatbread" items created through the cooking recipes have the same nutrition as rye (55/2/9), as expected.

75
Bug reports / Re: Mod tag %XX%
« on: January 25, 2018, 08:39:26 PM »
Here's how that tag works:  https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=143.msg653#msg653

Your base skill dominates crafting quality.  The modifier makes certain recipes easier to roll high, but the results of that high roll will still be determined by your base skill.

So for a base skill of 5% you will always produce a crude or rough result.  But the quality modifier can affect which of those you'll get.  With the lowest modifier, only 1% of your results will be rough, while with the highest modifier, 19% will. 

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