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Messages - Signatus

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76
Bug reports / Re: construction time
« on: December 29, 2018, 10:23:28 PM »
Don't just any axes work to make a shelter? Maybe the issue is your building skill. Here's the Shelter's recipe:

.Shelter. [effort:2] [phys:arms,stance,one-armed] -S- *BUILDING* /30/      %30%
{Cutting weapon} <Axe>
{Slender trunk} (3) [remove] [ground]
{Spruce twig} (20) [remove] [ground]

77
Modding / Creating custom plants and herbs
« on: December 29, 2018, 08:51:39 AM »
Does anyone know if it's at all possible to make a recipe that creates a plant or herb? For instance, a .Hemp. recipe that creates a single hemp plant. I've been fiddling around with it but am unable to even get the recipe to appear in the menus...

I've been able to make vanilla stuff (nettle, for instance) but my custom plant is not being created at all. Here's the code:

.Pinesalve.     (1)    [grass]
[NAME:Pinesalve]
[TILEGFX:flo-nettle]
[LEAF_SIZE:L]
[LEAF_VOLUME:bunch]
[REGION:eastern western]
[TERRAIN:grove meadow settlement clearing]
[CARB:0]
[FAT:0]
[PROTEIN:0]
[EFFECT_RAW:antiseptic astringent anti-microbial anti-inflammatory]
[POPULATION:0]
[FREQUENCY:0]
[COMMONNESS:0]
[HERB_KNOWN:all]

I've tried changing the 0s to 1s, to no avail.

EDIT: I created a new character and now it works, so that explains it  :P

78
    Ok, so I've been researching about Pine pitch/sap/resin in the last few hours and here's what I found:

What is sap/resin/pitch?

All of these are names given to the sticky material that Pine trees exude to cover their wounds and prevent bugs and infections from creeping in. Functionally they appear to be pretty much the same (at least in the context of pines), but sap is the most liquid sugary form (and it's what trees usually use to transport nutrients), while resin is the solid and hardened version of it. Pitch seems to be the intermediate, not quite either. The ones we're more interested in is the pitch and resin, which are sometimes used interchangeably. I'll refer to it as resin below.

https://downandout.wordpress.com/2013/10/17/whats-the-difference-pine-sap-pitch-or-resin/

What about pine tar?

This one is confusing... pine tar is kind of "liquid smoke", made by burning resinous wood ("fatwood") with a minimal amount of air, and the tar would then flow out of it. It seems to be best to use dead dried fatwood, rather than a fresh one, oddly. Its uses include waterproofing, firewood, preserving ropes and cordage, sealing material, etc. This doesn't seem that relevant to our intended uses, unless we wanted to use it to paint clinkered punts, which seems like a waste of menu entries when we have the very similar pitch with almost identical uses. It seems to also result in charcoal, and appears to be able to be turned into pitch glue by boiling. Seems to be a roundabout way to achieve the same thing, though

Can be used to make soap, but this isn't quite Dwarf Fortress :)

https://www.puuvene.net/phuhta/artikkelit/tar.html

https://www.survival-manual.com/pine-tar.php

Video of a guy doing it (INVOLVES A SHOVEL!): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNf2Kre7ylI

What can pine resin be used for?

Mainly it can be used for creating "natural" glue and (surprisingly) medicine. While resin by itself is not usable (but is easily storable), it can be heated to become malleable and sticky, but is usually full of impurities like bugs and bark.

How to make pine pitch glue?

While there's some optional ingredients that you can use depending on your needs or resources, the main ingredients are a tiny bit of powdered charcoal and some resin.

  • Gather the resin
Just use a knife to cut/scrape it off the bark. It's that simple, though it'll obviously have some impurities. While it's possible to tap a tree, it involves more preparation, tools and damage to the tree that aren't very well modeled in-game. Also, collecting naturally occurring resin feels much more in tune with Nature
  • Grind some charcoal into a fine powder
You don't seem to need much charcoal, burning the tip of a branch might be enough
  • Melt/heat the resin
This has to be done carefully because it's extremely flammable. A double boiler (a pot of water with another pot inside it) is advisable, to control the heat.
  • Remove impurities
A sieve can be used, but it can also be done manually, I guess.
  • Mix the resin with the charcoal
It should still be sticky, but not so much as before. You don't really need to do it with your hands, of course
  • [OPTIONAL] Add filler material
This isn't really needed, but seems to help strengthen the glue. The kind of material often suggested is rabbit/deer poop (yes, their dried and ground droppings) and finely ground plant matter. Animal fur (like your cat's fallen fur) could also be used. This is NOT necessary at all
  • [OPTIONAL] Add fat, tallow, or beeswax
This is only to make it more flexible and easy to work with, but is also absolutely unnecessary
  • Mix thoroughly and then let it cool a bit
It doesn't seem like you should let it boil too much or at all, since there's also the risk of it catching fire. That seems to be absolutely dangerous
  • Store it on a stick
Use a stick to grab/roll a bit on the end, cool it so it solidifies and then get some more. Eventually you'll have the tip full of pitch glue to carry around
[/list]

The proportion of sap to charcoal is up for debate, but it seems to be 4 resin to 1 charcoal/filler, or even 2 resin to 1 charcoal. This isn't really really something easy to mass produce, so I think that for game purposes we can ignore the charcoal and filler. They could be made optional ingredients in order to "teach", but you could accidentally be using them when you don't really need to.

Some videos:

Primitive, no fillers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-5E_aGFmW0
Uses a frying pan, but explains the whole process and shows use of resin as "bandage": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr1tQuq1rIs
You can see how flammable the resin is about 6:00 on this one, only purifying resin to be used later: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOxwFwahpwg?t=360

Some sources (there's a lot more, but these are enough):

https://www.survival-manual.com/pine-pitch-glue.php
Using double boiler method, with pictures: http://www.primitiveways.com/pine_pitch_stick.html

What about the medicine?

Remember when I mentioned that pines ooze out the sap to protect them from infections and bugs? It seems that those properties extend to humans as well! Besides the melted resin "bandage" which can be used to close wounds and stop bleeding, it also has some properties such as "antiseptic, astringent, anti-inflammatory, antibacterial". Sound familiar? They sure are :)

Rather than simply use the raw or purified resin, one could possibly make a salve. The steps are simply: Heat resin with oil (resin is oil-soluble) in a double boiler, then strain it to remove impurities, and finally heat it again with beeswax. One substitute for the olive oil is some herb-infused oil, of which yarrow is mentioned around as commonly used (and is in the game already). It might need a bit more research, but it seems that you can also make oil from birch-bark (holy crap, this tree is a godsend!). I'm willing to roleplay the existing Bark-water as oil, but we have plenty of menu space in cooking, really.

I'm at a loss in regards to beeswax, but it seems some vegans (I'm a vegan but I'm not into that stuff) make healing salves using plant oils and some substitutes like cocoa butter (lol), bayberry wax and some other exotic stuff not relevant to Finland. The beeswax also acts as a preservative, so it can spoil. Perhaps using milk or just ignoring this detail?

While it seems silly to even mention the salve, what if we could emulate it? :) I'm not sure if it's possible, but what if we create a HERB which does not grow anywhere at all and is only possible to be created using a cooking or crafting recipe? This would make it possible to use it as seasoning (silly, I know), but would also let you use it along with bandages, thus getting its healing effects as defined in the herb file! If possible, this could in theory be expanded to other plants and herbs, though its only use would be to make your supply of leaves/herbs last longer, maybe.

This "hack" could be used for soap as well, but does it make sense?

Sources:

Short description of uses: https://survivalsherpa.wordpress.com/2015/02/05/16-uses-of-sticky-pine-sap-for-wilderness-survival-and-self-reliance/
Very detailed and scientific: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5434829/
Pine resin salve: https://theherbalacademy.com/make-pine-resin-salve/
Birch oil: http://ettebo.se/en/how-to-make-birch-oil/

Conclusion

Pines and birches are the best. It's very simple to collect resin and it can then be used as a makeshift bandage, to stop bleeding, is antibacterial, and it can also be made into a healing salve. There is some overlap between pine pitch glue and tar, but unless we want to make soap it doesn't seem worth it to distinguish them. Also, tar seems too much of a hassle compared to how easy pitch glue is to make.

It seems that Neanderthals used to make birch-bark pitch glue, but I haven't gotten around to those methods and how it differs from resin. I would assume that you can't just substitute resin for bark and get the same results, though.

Sorry for the long post, but this was fun to learn about! :D

Edit: Most importantly for the recipe, I think making pitch glue from resin's waiting time should be reduced from the \8h\. It's actually a relatively quick process,but you'll have to keep an eye on it in order to not screw it up

Edit2: I've tried making a recipe that creates a custom herb, but it's not working. I'd appreciate some tips for making it work. One problem I found is that it has to be a leaf or flower in order to be used in treatment, unless we make a "herb" that can be threshed for an appropriate amount of leaves/flowers corresponding to the weight of the salve. I guess it could then be put in a bowl or something?

79
Mod Releases / Re: BAC Mod = Brygun and Community Mod
« on: December 28, 2018, 09:59:43 PM »
Pardon my absence I was assaulted yesterday and am pressing charges. A bit woogly today.

Damn, that sucks! I hope you're doing better

I regret not having enough injuries

Lol, said no one ever, or so I thought!

Quote
Only part that really hurts is my toe where he stomped on it. It hurts because he was fat!

Note to the devs: fat characters should deal more Kicking damage  ;D ;D ;D it's not just Sami getting injured in the name of science!

Re the "{Knife} <Draw knife>"  issue there is no [ground] command so the draw knife needs to be in your inventory.

You sure? I was dropping everything to build it, and some options don't require that tag, I think

Quote
For the "preferably" not showing im not sure. Does preferably only work with vanilla objects? this is why I asked to test is {Axe} "Adze axe" comes up with preferable as the adze is a modded in item.

I'm pretty sure the Adze axe was being asked as a preferable tool, but I can test it later. Can the asterisk be used on that field? For instance <Draw *>, just in case

Quote
however if all you have is dried/smoked meat then its just a soup isn't it?

I think those soups require vegetables as well, though. Not a big deal, really, but there's that. I'll test today if I can make goulash with a simple campfire

Quote
So long as the glue comes out to a {*glue} recipe things should be okay with being grabbed.

That's easy, it could just be called resin glue or pine tar glue. Some research is in order to understand how much one would need and details on the process. It is also possible to make pitch glue from it, I'm sure, but I don't know if it's an important distinction or if resin can be used in place of pitch glue in all projects.

However, it makes sense that you could use resin to make a Stone hammer or Caulking, no? This would make it ppssible to acquire glue without a pot, even if taking longer. Tapping the tree has to be roleplayed tho!

To Signatus:

Can you please post in this thread the various recipes for your alternate {*glue} material. It will ease us all taking a look at it. Please suggest which menu to fit it into.  ;)

If you can find the files I attached previously, it's in the zz_glossary under the Lumber menu. It was pretty simple though, and inefficient. Pine tar was collected 0.1 lb (or 0.5?) at a time based on some other mod and the pitch glue from tar recipe used the #5# requirement of the birch-bark one

By the way, is a birch-bark lace supposed to be the standard way to get birch-bark?

80
Mod Releases / Re: BAC Mod = Brygun and Community Mod
« on: December 27, 2018, 11:38:18 PM »
re: cookery -
Is it redundant to have "Dry meat soup" and "Smoked meat soup", when the Njerp cooking mod already includes Borsch and Goulash?  Borsch is basically dry meat soup, and Goulash is basically Smoked meat soup, just with more options.

 I think this community mod is a great idea, by the way.

The Borsch is a very versatile recipe which can be made only with raw meat, only vegetables, only dried stuff... or all of them! In a pinch you can always make some Borsch, even if not optimally nutritious.

As for the smoked and dried soup, you might have a point... perhaps they just need the values adjusted, and maybe some [optional] tags? I think the smoked one at least makes sense, so that you can make simple soup out of smoked products. Also keep in mind that both of these soups are [boil]ed, while the goulash is [bake]d. I believe you need a burnt-out fire in a fireplace to bake, right? If so, this makes them functionally different.

-><-

I've found a few duplications and issues:

- .Broadhead arrow. is in the fletching file, should be removed from the ironworking one
- The BAC_Crafts.txt file has the Barkware and Earthenware menus, which can both be removed now
- I added [NAME:Arrow] to .Fur-fletched arrow., just so all arrows stack and whatnot. Functionally there's no difference
- I just noticed the .Root Rope. in the Added items menu is using the *SURVIVAL* skill... does this do anything in the current version? Just change it to *COMMON*? RIP, fire-starting skill :)
- .Short quarter log. needs to be derived from "Block of wood", not just "Block"
- BAC_Bowying.txt is duplicated in its own file... it starts again at the end

-><-

Carpentry menu seems like a good idea... I'm just wondering if some recipes should change {Wooden tub} to {*tub} in order to use them. For example, .Iron hammer. wouldn't let me use the .Simple wooden tub. as a {Wooden tub of water}, but {*tub of water} worked and should let the new "tubs" be usable as well.

I noticed you didn't include the pine tar gathering and glue-making... from my testing it seemed unbalanced (much easier to use birch-bark), but I'm wondering if it could be balanced somehow. Is pine tar or resin usable as glue on its own? Maybe being able to let it collect the resin for a few days or more but then get usable {*glue}, except perhaps for some more specific/complex projects which would require proper pitch glue? It feels like resin should be a low-tech way to get some glue-y material, which could be balanced by the preparation time collecting it.

-><-

Edit: Just tried making a Cask-style tub, but {* pot} doesn't accept normal pots (nor a fine pot). I guess it has to be changed to {*pot}

Just made a Keg-style tub, and its weight was 3 lbs. What the hell? o.O I see no reason why this would happen, except that it's the exact amount of Caulking being used. Could it be fixed by making caulking in pieces of 1 lb, rather than 2, and making the recipe then take "{Caulking} (3)" rather than the #3# as it is now?

81
Mod Releases / Re: BAC Mod = Brygun and Community Mod
« on: December 27, 2018, 06:30:56 AM »
Doesn't seem like Roads and the well are, but it should be easy to add to the BAC_alternates.txt file. I remember the road used the "ter-road" GFX, but the well is just a water tile if I'm not mistaken. I thought about/tried making a well graphic but I really suck at graphics...

The problem with the well is that you can't have both a Water catcher (the one Brygun added) and a Well recipe at the same time. So at least one of them will be commented out to be included

82
Mod Releases / Re: BAC Mod = Brygun and Community Mod
« on: December 27, 2018, 06:09:12 AM »
Are you guys using any other graphic mods besides "Jaredonians Character Models + Distinct Tribes v3"

Personally I'm only using that one, but this includes GFXs from various sources. Good thing Brygun included the truetile folder :)

83
Mod Releases / Re: BAC Mod = Brygun and Community Mod
« on: December 27, 2018, 05:58:21 AM »
You can still find the vanilla Stone-axe in the Weapons menu, can't you?

84
Mod Releases / Re: BAC Mod = Brygun and Community Mod
« on: December 27, 2018, 05:48:18 AM »
Looking good! ;D I just finished testing building a Clinkered punt, and found some tiny issues:

- The items were going to my inventory due to the slashes, but it seems you corrected that one.
- {Block} needs to be {Block of wood}. Also, Short quarter logs aren't usable as blocks
- Lower and Upper clinkering steps have {Fire} twice. Also the amount of ingredients makes a mess of the menu, but I'm not sure if there's a solution
- The final step for some reason didn't say "Preferably a Draw knife" and didn't go for the one right beside me, choosing a masterwork hunting knife instead.

It was all decent until the final step, where it became an inferior clinkered punt. I did have a rough Iron hammer, but still... might've been the inferior boards, though.

Some of the steps took way too long, upwards of 10 hours, to the point I was malnourished, lol. I wonder if the effort or the time should be reduced?

I just looked through these files and it seems that Earthenware has some duplicates in the diy_BAC_Crafts, they are present in the earthenware file already.

85
Mod Releases / Re: Brygun's Added Items
« on: December 27, 2018, 03:18:13 AM »
Oh... I've been using Signatus's file that he uploaded and its missing from the diy_zz_brygunadd.txt. I'am going to replace it with diy_Brygunadd.txt from BAC mod v003. Hopefully it dosn't mess anything up. I'am waiting for the next update that adds Signatus stuff before switching to BAC.

I'am quite enjoying my time with the game. Went through 3 characters very quickly before my current. I did the game course\task that gives you the free fishing rod, key to survival. I'am able to sustain myself now.

EDIT 1: It's there now haven't used it yet though!

EDIT 2: Looks like there is changes to stuff in some of the menu's, not a big deal still just doing basic unadvanced stuff. As Signatus mentioned, and looking through the files, he had stuff organized differently, so some stuff might be wonky. I'll be good till I switch over.

Yeah sorry mate, I had 3 or 4 mods at the same time and it was getting messy so I grabbed Buoidda's and brygun's changed as a baseline and then went through the files I had to see what I wanted to keep, like the road and well. I organized it by menus (mostly) and also reordered them on the menus. You can still copy and paste brygun's updated recipes into the appropriate submenu files, but it can be a bit of a hassle.

Edit: look in the zz_glossary, it should have most of those missing recipes

86
Mod Releases / Re: Brygun's Added Items
« on: December 27, 2018, 01:16:47 AM »
It's .Clean fish. at the end of the "Added items" menu. You can then roast the cuts too

87
Gameplay questions / Re: What affects watercraft speed?
« on: December 26, 2018, 11:23:24 PM »
I tested with and without weight, and I think I tested an inferior vs. decent punt as well, and nothing changed. Your walking speed is used when rowing, it seems. As you get tired it'll drop. That seems about it

88
Mod Releases / Re: Brygun's Added Items
« on: December 26, 2018, 08:49:15 PM »
I'm looking through the latest files at the moment and I noticed that the auger recipe is asking for an {Axw}. I've also noticed in several places that you have e.g. /8h/ /2h/, with the same slashes for both... does this make a difference? Example:

.Caulking. "Hunting horn" [patch:3] [noquality] [phys:arms] [effort:0] *CARPENTRY*   /15/ /30/  |-2|

For comparison:

.Clay kettle pot. "Pot" [effort:0] [phys:hands,one-armed] *COMMON*    /20/ \2h\

Edit: .Short quarter log. needs to be based on "Block of wood", not "Block", otherwise it won't even show up on the menus

89
Modding / Re: Cord doesnt count as * cord
« on: December 25, 2018, 05:07:21 AM »
That doesn't explain why I've had cords not usable as tying equipment... both the vanilla Cord and some "birch-bark cord".

It does make sense that the space blocks simple cords, but it should work for "XYZ cord", right?

90
Mod Releases / Re: Brygun's Added Items
« on: December 25, 2018, 02:58:23 AM »
Quote
Lamellar armour consists of small platelets known as "lamellae" or "lames", which are punched and laced together, typically in horizontal rows. Lamellae can be made of metal, leather cuir bouilli, horn, stone, bone or more exotic substances. Unlike scale armour, which it resembles, lamellar armour is not attached to a cloth or leather backing (although it is typically worn over a padded undergarment).

I just wanted to point this out from wikipedia, because you seem to be making the wrong assumption. It's essentially something like {* plates} and {* cord}.

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