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31
Modding / Improving Fennec's random plant generator
« on: January 22, 2019, 04:15:39 PM »
I was thinking about this and I think that Fennec's plant generator has a lot of extra potential in it. I'd like to share with you all my ideas pn how to improve it.

I don't really know how they did it do, since there's no source. @fennecfoxx , would you mind sharing it? I can program in java so surely something I'd be able to use.

As far as I see it, it's just creating a certain number of plants with the herbs getting special traits. Berries and crops get none. They do have random names and get semi-random values for nutrition and whatnot.

However, this can be a bit chaotic and create combinations of plants that make no sense or don't cover the range of possibilities so well. So a good idea might be creating some procedural or hardcoded "plant types". These could be things like medicinal, threadable, grindable, shamanic, poisonous, etc. A certain minimum number of plants with these traits must be available. So you'll always get at least one edible plant to make flour wit or to get high, to make threads (even if inedible), etc.

It should also balance the occurrence of plants such that north/south/east/west has a certain minimum of herbs/berries/shrooms/crops while still leaving some space for randomness.

These settings should be editable, to be able to fine tune the results to what you want (almost all berries are poisonous? Go for it!)

There should probably be some berries or mushrooms available throughout winter, even if only in certain areas. At least 2 types seems appropriate but could be slightly randomized.

As for crops, one of the problems is the already usable plants not being included or available. I see a way around this along with the plant types mentioned above. We could have similarly named plants (black-nettle, marsh-flax, etc) which could then be equally soaked or processed by changing the recipe to {*nettle} or even stuff like {Retted *nettle}, which along with names like "Fibre from X" and "Linen from X" could make the material persist through to the clothing name.

Crops could alsk be created along a template (random or not, with random deviations, so that all e.g. "foobars" would have roughly the same properties, with the chance of random changes. Maybe if the base template is edible each new one of that type can have a 5% of being poisonous, 1% deadly. So if you know the plant's base name/type but don't have full knowledge of, say, "spiny foobar", you might be taking a risk by consuming it even if all the other foobars are okay.

Along with this is the possibility of making some dye, which does seem to have existed in iron age finland. One approach is to use a fixed name plant, "dyeplant - red", and create some cooking recipes (plenty of space there) for make dye out of it. This would take one recipe using {Dyeplant - *} input. The other approach involves randomly named plants from which you can extract colored dyes. This would have to procedurally make recipes for each.

Dyes could be called via {Dye - *} and use the last word. Items should probably be dyed at the source recipe to save space though, but I guess the cooking menu could be used for all the clothing dying if necessary. It doesn't require fire nor a pot if you don't boil anything. Kludgy, though.

Some special and rare medicinal/stimulant plants could be sprinkled in to make things more interesting.

Lastly, and with the empty cooking space in mind, perhaps procedurally create recipes that call for specific plants/ingredients but which will have a higher value of nutrition than the sum of its components. This represents the cooking releasing ingredients, and perhaps specific herbs and ingredients complementing each other.

This would make you have to use the specific ingredients in order to benefit, which might not be easy. I guess the recipes could have "regional" dishes with herbs from the area (maybe some archetypes can be used, like "Northern porridge/soup") but also some "global" combinations to spice it up. Perhaps the global ones, being harder to gather, would have an even higher nutrition.

What do you think about these ideas?

32
General Discussion / Re: How to survive (maybe) wolves
« on: January 22, 2019, 01:47:21 PM »
Is the 180° turn usually on the numpad 1? Mine is on the pgdown key.

Even with strong OP characters my usual course of action when I bump into a wolf pack is a) press H to start hiding, b) walk backwards until able to zoom out.

Two or three is manageable, but 7 or 8 is too much unless you manage to kill a few of them off quickly. They can easily flank you and attack from behind or just leave you with no escape

33
I researched a bit and here's a table on bronze and silver values in vanilla:

Code: [Select]
WEIGHT NAME VALUE VAL/LB
<--------------><----------------------><------><------>
0.006623 bronze bezel ring 192 28 989
0.01766 bronze ball pendant 240 13 590
0.01766 bronze bear pendant 360 20 385
0.046358 bronze bracelet 224 4 831
0.0883 small bronze brooch 160 1 812
0.13245 bronze flower-orn. comb 320 2 416
0.13245 bronze horse-orn. comb 384 2 899
0.1766 bronze brooch 280 1 585
<--------------><----------------------><------><------>
0.006623 silver ring 320 48 316
0.03532 silver bird bracelet 520 14 772
0.04415 silver sun-symbol pend. 640 14 496
0.055188 silver chain bracelet 680 12 321

lowest values: 0.1286 bronze to silver
highest(rings): 0.5999 bronze to silver
pends(bear): 1.4062
pends(no bear): 0.9375
bracelets: 0.3270
averages: 1.1062
avg bronze: 24 863
avg silver: 22 476

They're ordered by weight

Bronze loses a lot of value per pound in the bigger objects, though that's to be expected. The pendants are pretty much the same (with the bronze bear one being more valuable than the silver), but bracelets seem to fall between the ratio of the highest and lowest values.

On average bronze actually wins, but the sample is quite small.

I was able to make ore appear in mountain and rivers in shallow water as well as in the crags. Even with commonness at 1 I still have trouble finding copper, let alone the tin at 0.1. Eventually it's possible to find it, though.

Here's some example code of how to do all this. First there's the harvesting, which might be done as herbs:

Code: [Select]
.Alluvial ore of copper. (1) [root]
//[NAME:Ore of copper]
[TILEGFX:shr-noaidis]
[SIZE:L]
[SPROUT:1]
[MATURE:90]
[WITHER:12]
[REGION:eastern western northern southern]
[TERRAIN:river ford]
[SYMBIOSIS:shallow_water]
[POPULATION:15]
[FREQUENCY:40]
[COMMONNESS:1]
[HERB_COMMON:eastern western northern southern]
[HERB_KNOWN:all]
[EFFECT_RAW:deadly_poisonous]
// commonness should be 0.2 of iron

.Rocky ore of copper. (1) [root]
//[NAME:Ore of copper]
[TILEGFX:shr-noaidis]
[SIZE:L]
[SPROUT:1]
[MATURE:90]
[WITHER:12]
[REGION:eastern western northern southern]
[TERRAIN:cliff mountain river ford]
[SYMBIOSIS:rocky]
[POPULATION:15]
[FREQUENCY:40]
[COMMONNESS:1]
[HERB_COMMON:eastern western northern southern]
[HERB_KNOWN:all]
[EFFECT_RAW:deadly_poisonous]
// commonness should be 0.2 of iron

// TIN

.Alluvial ore of tin. (1) [root]
//[NAME:Ore of tin]
[TILEGFX:shr-bogiron]
[SIZE:L]
[SPROUT:1]
[MATURE:90]
[WITHER:12]
[REGION:eastern western northern southern]
[TERRAIN:river ford]
[SYMBIOSIS:shallow_water]
[POPULATION:40]
[FREQUENCY:80]
[COMMONNESS:0.1]
[HERB_COMMON:eastern western northern southern]
[HERB_KNOWN:all]
[EFFECT_RAW:deadly_poisonous]

.Rocky ore of tin. (1) [root]
//[NAME:Ore of tin]
[TILEGFX:shr-bogiron]
[SIZE:L]
[SPROUT:1]
[MATURE:90]
[WITHER:12]
[REGION:eastern western northern southern]
[TERRAIN:cliff mountain river ford]
[SYMBIOSIS:rocky]
[POPULATION:40]
[FREQUENCY:80]
[COMMONNESS:0.1]
[HERB_COMMON:eastern western northern southern]
[HERB_KNOWN:all]
[EFFECT_RAW:deadly_poisonous]

This is based on some small thread regarding the sufficiency mod and has some of caethan's values. The only way for it to both appear on rocks and shallow water was to have two types with different symbiosis. The roots, though they mostly don't rot, can be prepared to a stackable, uniformized and usable form by this recipe:

Code: [Select]
.Prepare ore. "Hunting horn" [effort:0] *TIMBERCRAFT* [noquality] /1/ [patch:50]
{* ore of*} #0.1# [patchwise] [remove] [name:Ore of %s] [naming:last word] 'Of same ore'
[MATERIAL:iron]
[TYPE:valuable]
[WEIGHT:0.1]

// smelting
// improved method

.Smelt precious ore bloom. "Hunting horn" [effort:2] [phys:arms,hands,stance] *TIMBERCRAFT* %-20% /1/
{Ore of*} #1#  [remove] [noquality] [name:Bloom of pure %s] [naming:last word] 'Raw ore'
[MATERIAL:iron]
[TYPE:valuable]
[WEIGHT:0.5]
[PRICE:0.01]
[TILEGFX:bc-ironbloom]

.Smelt bronze bloom. "Hunting horn" [effort:2] [phys:arms,hands,stance] *TIMBERCRAFT* %-20% /1/ [patch:8]
{* of pure tin} #0.125#  [remove] '1 tin'
{* of pure copper} #0.875#  [remove] '7 copper'
[NAME:Bloom of bronze]
[MATERIAL:iron]
[TYPE:valuable]
[WEIGHT:1]
[PRICE:0.01]
[TILEGFX:bc-ironbloom]

.Cast an ingot of metal. "Hunting horn" [effort:2] [phys:arms,hands,stance] *TIMBERCRAFT* /1/
{* of pure*} #1# [name:Ingot of pure %s] [naming:last word]
[MATERIAL:iron]
[TYPE:valuable]
[WEIGHT:1]
[PRICE:0.01]
[TILEGFX:bc-ironbloom]

.Copper ring. "Bronze bezel ring" [effort:2] [phys:hands] *CARPENTRY* /1/
{* of pure copper} #0.007# [remove]
[PRICE:12]

.Bronze bezel ring.  [effort:2] [phys:hands] *CARPENTRY* /1/
{* of pure bronze} #0.007# [remove]

.Silver ring. [effort:2] [phys:hands] *CARPENTRY* /1/
{* of pure silver} #0.007# [remove]

.Iron ring. "Bronze bezel ring" [effort:2] [phys:hands] *CARPENTRY* /1/
{* of pure iron} #0.01# [remove]
{* of pure *} #0.004# [remove] [optional] [name:%s-ornamented iron ring] [naming:last word]
[PRICE:0.1]

.Decorate spear with metal. "Spear" [effort:2] [phys:hands] *COMMON* %10% /1/
{Spear}
{* of pure *} #0.2# [remove] [optional] [name:%s-decorated spear] [naming:last word]
[PRICE:50]

The use of pure is to distinguish workable materials from which to get the last name out of. So both blooms of pure copper or ingots of pure cooper could be used. It could be changed to a different word too.

The rings are a few ideas on how to implement it, simplified. The iron ring can be made solo or with ornaments. Spears can be decorated and remain spears, while having a chance to improve quality. If used in the recipe of a Spear itself, it can simply add some flair. You can mark your home-made items in iron as well, so it's not unusable.

Let me know what you think. I think the problem here is adjusting the rarity so that it's a rarity/chance finding the ores while still being able to use them without being over/underpowered. You might stumble upon a deposit and mark it on your back from wherever, maybe even make an expedition there on purpose. This ain't easy to find.

As for iron, I'm not sure how it'd work. Having to look for iron rather than just go to the local lake/mire is interesting and might make iron mining less boring. The time gained by gathering rather than mining could be compensated in the preparing step.

34
A spear head is still a lot of gold - we're talking a pound or two. Keep in mind that all the gold ever found throughout history worldwide would fit into a couple of swimming pools. There just isn't that much of it, let alone in easily smeltable form. Most large  - beyond ring size - gold objects are hollow, merely coated with gold, are not pure gold or a combination of any/all of these. It's a pretty rare thing for something to be solid 24k gold.

You are right, but it would also be available as rare import, which isn't in the game yet.

Quote
Rings and bracelets would certainly be made, and maybe a very small knife. Gold used as decoration, however, is another matter. Gold inlay is fairly old and could be done to the head and shaft using relatively small amounts to radically increase the value of the spear. In fact, the better weapons makers might just do this to make more of a profit. The same is true of silver and gemstones.

I think inlaying would be fairly simple with an optional tag in the main weapon recipes

Quote
Silver OTOH is more doable. A silver spear head would be quite valuable and you could make valuable things like knives out of it. In terms of functionality neither would be very good, but they'd function as status symbols. Expensive, but doable. Jewelry is already in the game and would absolutely be around.

It also has kind of a mystical ring to it, being used as sacrifice in a ritual. But getting silver only from silver rings from traders is tough. It shouldn't be easy, and it's something for a mid-late game goal depending on finding a supply of silver

35
General rule throughout much of history is copper/bronze:silver is about 1:20 and silver:gold is about the same 1:20. So a gold precious spear would be 400 times the cost of the copper one and that's if there is enough gold around to make one.

Which is why gold and silver should be really hard to find in the first place, perhaps making you lose weeks/months to get anything worth it.

Perhaps a whole spear made of gold is too much, but it only really needs the spearhead considering the recipe using a staff. A sword would probably take years of mining and finding ore, but maybe a small knife or a ring/bracelet would be an easier and more realistic project.

Copper and bonze also melt at lower temperatures, making it easier to smelt.

Iron mining is currently simplified as well. Usually you'd have to actually find a place with ore, not just any puddle. Iron sure is common, but you still have to find it

36
Silver and gold mining might be a stretch, it's true, because it came from commerce. But there was silver and gold there, and they probably already knew about copper mining and bronze smelting for many years. Melting silver rings and bronze jewelry into something usable is one way to get it without mining.

On the issue of copper mining in Scandinavia (Norway in this case): http://sciencenordic.com/bronze-age-people-mine-their-own

And this one is native copper, worked and unworked, from Karelia: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Native-copper-from-Fofanovo-XIII-dwelling-site-in-Karelia-This-exceptionally-rich_fig3_274311218

So it's not that much of a stretch that copper and bronze can be worked, as well as silver and gold if available. My idea with gold is that would have to be pretty rare, but could be easily worked into some nice valuables if available. The "herbal ores" idea might work better because the rarity and biomes could be tweaked much better. If not gold, I think copper/bronze are interesting though

37
Mod Releases / Re: Making salt out of sea water
« on: January 20, 2019, 11:08:19 PM »
Oh wow, today I learned this! I guess in that case it should be lowered to about 1% yield, making very unlikely to be abused. I guess I'll change it to require a pot but not boil it. It'll use 1 lb of sea-water per patch to help ration it. 50 lbs (maximum patch) will only make 0.5 lbs of salt, but it'll take less time per batch. I'll update the post.

Yield is now 1% (I saw value from 0.4% to 1.8%, so seems appropriate) so you'll actually be getting less of it despite the faster batches

38
Mod Releases / Making salt out of sea water
« on: January 20, 2019, 10:22:00 PM »
Hey everyone, I've been testing for a way to make salt out of sea water. Sea water has at least 3% salt, so anyone can boil it in a pot and get at least SOME salt. Perhaps it's not as high quality as the ones salt farmers create, but still, it's salt. This surely held true during the iron age.

So I researched a bit in order to make a simple addition that makes you capable of making salt yourself. You'll need to get the water from the sea, of course, and you'll need a pot that will become unusable for 5 days. This could help balancing it, though anyway you'll only get 0.2 lbs per full pot of water. Could be changed to {*pot} to free the pot for other use, and removing the [boil] tag. Unsure how that would work with the weighing. You should also be able to drink the water

Code: [Select]
// Salt-making

// Collecting sea-water simply requires being at a sea tile and having a container
// Weight set to 1, but batches allow various amounts to be made
// Being in the cookery menu makes it not stack properly, but it should be put in a container anyway
// It will appear at your feet
//
.Collect sea-water. "Hunting horn" [effort:0] [phys:hands] *COOKERY* [noquality] /1/ [patch:20]
{[TERRAIN:sea]} 'Be at sea'
{[NEARBY_TILE:water]} 'Be near water'
{Container}
[NAME:Sea-water]
[WEIGHT:1]
[WATER:100]

// Sea-water consists of about 3.5% salt, +/- 0.5%
// Water in the Baltic has much lower salinity than the average, though, so
// You can make exactly 0.06 lb of salt with 6 lbs of sea-water (1%)
//
// Process has to be tended and the water stirred, I set it at 8 minutes per batch (48 minutes per full pot)
// Drying the salt can take days or weeks, so I set it at 5 days for now
//
// A patch of 50 takes 6h40m (and 5 days) to prepare, uses up 50 lbs of sea-water and yields 0.5 lb of salt
//
// Sea-water is 1 lb to allow for smaller batches, but yielding same percentage of salt in the end
//
// Your pot will not be unusable while it prepares
//
.Boil seawater for salt. "Salt" [effort:0] *COOKERY* [noquality] /8/ \5d\ [patch:50]
{Sea-water} #1.0# [patchwise] [remove] 'As much sea-water as possible'
{*pot} '+for boiling the water'
{Board} '+for laying salt out to dry
[WEIGHT:0.01]
[NAME:Salt]

Probably not very lucrative, but at least you can get some of it!

Edit: was missing a [patchwise] tag

For further reference, a single pike takes 0.66 lbs of salt to salt (heh). That's roughly 20 lbs of sea water. Salting is going to be very hard for an inland character without trading or water "mining" expeditions. A coastal character, on the other hand, could somewhat easily make some, though.

UPDATE: changed yield to 1% and no longer boils the water

39
Ok, so I made a simple add-on with copper gold and silver and some example items, and here's what I got:

Code: [Select]
[SUBMENU_START:Precious]

.Harvest copper ore. "Hunting Horn" [effort:2] [phys:arms,hands,stance] *COMMON* /40/ [noquality] [patch]
{[NEARBY_TILE:river]} 'Near rapids' 
{[TERRAIN:hill]} 'mountainous terrain'
{*hammer}
[NAME:ore of copper]
[MATERIAL:stone]
[WEIGHT:1.2]
[PRICE:0]
[TILEGFX:bc-orepiece]

.Harvest silver ore. "Hunting Horn" [effort:2] [phys:arms,hands,stance] *COMMON* /50/ [noquality] [patch]
{[NEARBY_TILE:river]} 'Near rapids' 
{[TERRAIN:hill]} 'mountainous terrain'
{*hammer}
[NAME:ore of silver]
[MATERIAL:stone]
[WEIGHT:0.06]
[PRICE:0]
[TILEGFX:bc-orepiece]

.Harvest gold ore. "Hunting Horn" [effort:2] [phys:arms,hands,stance] *COMMON* /1h/ [noquality] [patch]
{[NEARBY_TILE:river]} 'Near rapids' 
{[TERRAIN:hill]} 'mountainous terrain'
{*hammer}
[NAME:ore of gold]
[MATERIAL:stone]
[WEIGHT:0.0025]
[PRICE:0]
[TILEGFX:bc-orepiece]

// roasting

.Roasted precious ore. "Hunting horn" *COMMON* /1/ \3\ [noquality] [patch:50]
{Ore of*} #0.06#  [remove] [patchwise] [name:Roasted ore of %s] [naming:last word] 'Copper/silver/gold ore'
//{Firewood} (4) [patchwise] [ground] '+to pile with ore'
//{Firewood} (4) [patchwise] [ground] '(You need to light them on fire)'
[MATERIAL:stone]
[WEIGHT:0.05]
[PRICE:0]
[TILEGFX:bc-orepiece]

// smelting
// improved method

.Smelt precious ore. "Hunting horn" [effort:2] [phys:arms,hands,stance] *TIMBERCRAFT* %-20% -M- /1/
{Roasted ore of*} #1#  [remove] [noquality] [name:Bloom of %s] [naming:last word] 'Roasted ore'
[MATERIAL:iron]
[WEIGHT:1]
[PRICE:0.01]
[TILEGFX:bc-ironbloom]

// Previous method

.Smelt copper ore. "Hunting horn" [effort:2] [phys:arms,hands,stance] *TIMBERCRAFT* %-20% -M- /1/
//{Bloomery*} [noquality] [ground] 'Bloomery furnace'
//{Fire} [noquality]
{Roasted copper ore} #1#  [remove] [noquality] 'Roasted iron ore'
//{Charcoal} (8) [remove] [noquality] [ground] '+to mix with ore'
//{Bellows} '+for keeping the heat up'
//{Shovel} [noquality] '+for tending the process'
[NAME:Copper bloom]
[MATERIAL:iron]
[WEIGHT:1]
[PRICE:0.01]
[TILEGFX:bc-ironbloom]

.Smelt silver ore. "Hunting horn" [effort:2] [phys:arms,hands,stance] *TIMBERCRAFT* %-20% -M- /180/
{Bloomery*} [noquality] [ground] 'Bloomery furnace'
{Fire} [noquality]
{Roasted silver ore} #0.05#  [remove] [noquality] 'Roasted iron ore'
{Charcoal} (8) [remove] [noquality] [ground] '+to mix with ore'
{Bellows} '+for keeping the heat up'
{Shovel} [noquality] '+for tending the process'
[NAME:Silver bloom]
[MATERIAL:iron]
[WEIGHT:0.05]
[PRICE:1]
[TILEGFX:bc-ironbloom]

.Smelt gold ore. "Hunting horn" [effort:2] [phys:arms,hands,stance] *TIMBERCRAFT* %-20% -M- /1/
//{Bloomery*} [noquality] [ground] 'Bloomery furnace'
//{Fire} [noquality]
{Roasted gold ore} #0.05#  [remove] [noquality] 'Roasted iron ore'
//{Charcoal} (8) [remove] [noquality] [ground] '+to mix with ore'
//{Bellows} '+for keeping the heat up'
//{Shovel} [noquality] '+for tending the process'
[NAME:Gold bloom]
[MATERIAL:iron]
[WEIGHT:0.05]
[PRICE:10]
[TILEGFX:bc-ironbloom]

// coinage testing

.Generic coin.  "Hunting horn" [effort:3] [phys:hands] *CARPENTRY* [noquality] /5/
//{*forge*} [noquality]
{Bloom of*} #0.02# [name:%s coin] [naming:last word]
{*iron hammer}
[TYPE:valuable]
[WEIGHT:0.02]
[MATERIAL:iron]
// COPPER
[PRICE:0.1]
// SILVER
//[PRICE:1]
// GOLD
//[PRICE:20]

// Previous method for coins or crafts

.Copper coin. (64) "Hunting horn" [effort:3] [phys:hands] *CARPENTRY* [noquality] /5/
//{*forge*} [noquality]
{Copper bloom}
{*iron hammer}
[TYPE:valuable]
[WEIGHT:0.015]
[MATERIAL:iron]
[PRICE:0.1]

.Silver coin. (4) "Hunting horn" [effort:3] [phys:hands] *CARPENTRY* %20% /3h/
{*forge*} [noquality]
{Silver bloom}
{*iron hammer}
[TYPE:valuable]
[WEIGHT:0.012]
[MATERIAL:iron]
[PRICE:1]

.Gold coin. (2) "Hunting horn" [effort:3] [phys:hands] *CARPENTRY* [noquality] /4/
//{*forge*} [noquality]
{Gold bloom}
//{*iron hammer}
[TYPE:valuable]
[WEIGHT:0.018]
[MATERIAL:iron]
[PRICE:20]

// weapon testing

.Precious spearhead.    "Hunting Horn"  [effort:3] [phys:arms,hands,stance] *CARPENTRY* /6h/ 
{Bloom of*} [remove] [name:Spearhead of %s] [naming:last word]
//{*billet}  [remove] 'Good billet for the edges'
//{*billet}  [remove] [noquality] 'Second billet for shape'
//{*forge*} [noquality] 'Forge or furnace'
//{Charcoal} (4) [remove] [noquality] [ground]
//{Bellows}
//{*anvil*} [ground] 'Anvil nearby'
//{*hammer} 'Hammer'
//{* tub of water} [noquality] [ground] 'Tub of water for quenching'
[MATERIAL:iron]
[WEIGHT:1]
[PRICE:0]
[TILEGFX:bc-spearhead]

.Precious spear. "Spear" [effort:1] [phys:arms,hands] *CARPENTRY* /3h/
{Spearhead of*} [remove] [name:%s spear] [naming:last word]
{Staff} [remove]
{Knife}
{Whetstone} [noquality] '+for final sharpening'
//original spear price is 43 arrows or so
// COPPPER
//[WEIGHT:5]
//[BLUNT_ATTACK:4]
//[POINT_ATTACK:6]
//[PRICE:30]
// SILVER
//[WEIGHT:6]
//[BLUNT_ATTACK:5]
//[POINT_ATTACK:5]
//[PRICE:60]
// GOLD
//[WEIGHT:7]
//[BLUNT_ATTACK:3]
//[POINT_ATTACK:6]
//[PRICE:100]



[SUBMENU_END:Precious]

Note that I fixed harvesting to hill + river for testing, couldn't find the original mountain + rapids adjacent to each other. This could be reduced to 1 with the use of optional nearby tiles, perhaps, but I'm not sure. They could also be removed if we create ore "flowers" with an appropriate rarity blooming in mountains or caves.

Roasting and smelting is condensed into a single recipe each. This could be combined with the iron ones, so it's elegantly solved.

I also have the material specific smelting I was using before, allowing more control.

I just created the generic coin, which will become copper/silver/gold coin depending on the material. The pricing and WEIGHT can be adjusted according to the comments below it. This can be applied to any craft I guess

I also have the material specific versions of the coins in particular.

Lastly I made an example spearhead an spear which can be made from these various materials. Again, the properties of the spear can be adjusted according to the material used. It will be iron spear, gold spear, silver spear, etc. The values are mostly examples.

40
If/when the other ores methodology gets developed I/we can reconsider it for the BAC.

BAC also aims to have an educational or real world aspect. In the case of weapons gold, silver and bronze are all inferior in performance to iron. For decorations they do look better. Just because something costs more doesn't mean it is better. Which also applies to dating.

That's not quite true. Having played Dwarf Fortress quire a bit, I know that silver is actually more useful as a blunt weapon material due to being denser than iron. Bronze and iron are pretty much on par when it comes to both edged and blunt.

You can check the DFwiki for info about each material's properties : http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Weapon#Weapon_Material_Quality

It's surprisingly realistic.

It's pointless to make a gold weapon, I guess, but it's a gold weapon nonetheless... it can either be sold or kept as a cerimonial or just a special sword. It's worth noting that it isn't easy to mine enough gold for a sword or spear, I think. I wouldn't bother with gold armor at all though.

I'll share what I made and a few proposals in the other thread first ;)

41
Coins maybe not, but ingots? Small ingots of metal were likely traded at this time, heck they've found stone in much earlier sites that's non native that likely would have been traded. People trade whatever's valuable.

Trick is how to put this into the economy.

  - Shane

My idea was something like this, though originally I was testing a way to find the exact price of things by getting naked and holding only the coins while trading, then asking what they prefer (worked). The weights for gold and silver coins are based on the most ancient coins found from Persia. The idea is that you could work them into something valuable as well, but also have a "billet" or ingot form to be able to melt stuff into.

The weapons menu seem to havr enough space for some gold/silver/bronze weapons (with different values based on weapon type) but other objects could get the appropriate tagging if "X bloom" and "X ore piece" werr changed to "bloom of X", "ore of X", etc... as happens with fibres already. This would allow naming the item depending on the ore used.

The problem is that pricing these items differently would require commenting in/out a price tag. While simple and solving the space problem, it requires this manual action. But you could have a silver hammer or a golden pot!

This could be extended to other items like "Arrowhead of iron/silver/gold" used with [naming:last word]

The roasting and smelting can easily fit into the mining and and ironworking menus, I think.

I used the gold to silver ratio of 1 to 20 and about the same of silver to copper though it appears to have remained about 0.1 to 0.3 throughout history. The coin idea might need balancing to make it not broken and less valuable for the effort, resources and tools needed (don't forget that) but it could work with the idea of the metalworker in mind.

Also, bronze could be melted from bronze brooches and stuff, giving them a new purpose. Alternatively, we could mix iron and copper together to make bronze.

Edit: btw, copper, silver and gold do occur naturally, and I know there's deposits of gold in finland. Finding them should be hard, kinda balancing it out.

Edit: another option would be having a swappable menu with the bronze/etc crafting recipes

42
I found a possible problem... I noticed while testing a coin-making addition that the prices are off. It seem that PRICE:1 is equal to an arrow's price, which is supposedly 8. With some small coins valued at 0.1 each I was able to buy an arrow for 10 of them. At 0.125 price I could buy it with 8.

This means that a lot of items need their prices tweaked. An iron bloom is worth 10 arrows I think. This doesn't seem right.

What should be the price of iron itself, per pound? This could make it easier to determine pricing.

Also, would smelting copper/silver/gold into coins make sense? I think we could try to balance its yield or something, but could be interesting. My idea to emulate the rarity of the ores is to depend on some specific combination of biomes. For example, being at a mountain AND near some rapids. Or a cave near 2 or 3 types of mire. It should be possible to eventually find it, though.

Another way to do it is to create "herbs" that grow on specific biomes with low commonness and different yields. That would make it more dynamic how you find them rather than finding one spot and stopping there.

The same approach could be take in regards to iron, I guess, but it's so much common it might not be worth it.

Anyway, I made coins of 0.15, 0.12 and 0.18 for copper/silver/gold with values 0.1/1/20. Bringing copper coins to 0.30 might help underpowering them because being more common I was mining and smelting it bigger batches.

One could donate coins to villages in order to simulate them having some to buy stuff from you. Let me know what you think

43
Gameplay questions / Re: How exactly to make elk leather
« on: January 18, 2019, 12:51:04 PM »
You have to de-hair and then tan it normally. I don't think you need to dehair more than once, since it takes a few days, but I'm not sure. I usually just make furs.

44
Mod Releases / Re: Custom Starting Items - Freebies
« on: January 17, 2019, 08:32:15 PM »
Here's my test file right now:

Code: [Select]
[SUBMENU_START:TEST]

.Test metal anvil.    "Hunting horn" [effort:0] [phys:arms,hands,stance] *CARPENTRY* /1/ %45%
[NAME:Metal anvil]
[MATERIAL:stone]
[WEIGHT:29]
[PRICE:240]
[TILEGFX:bc-anvil]
[TYPE:tool]

.Test flat iron hammer. "Mace" [effort:0] [phys:arms,hands,stance] *CARPENTRY* %70% /1/
[BLUNT_ATTACK:6]
[EDGE_ATTACK:-1]
[POINT_ATTACK:-1]
[AD_CLASS:1/0]
[MATERIAL:iron]
[WEIGHT:3]
[PRICE:20]
[TILEGFX:bc-hammer]
[NAME:Flat iron hammer]

.Pine salve. "Pine salve leaves" (10) [effort:0] [phys:hands] *COMMON* /1/ [noquality]
{Rock} [noquality]
[WEIGHT:0.1]
[NAME:Pine salve]

.Punt. [effort:0] [phys:hands] *COMMON* /1/ [noquality]
{Rock} [noquality]
//{Knife} <Draw knife>
//{Axe} <Adze axe>
{Draw knife} <Hunting knife>

.Test seawater. "Hunting horn" [effort:0] [phys:hands] *COOKERY* [noquality] /1/
[NAME:Sea-water]

.Test make salt. "Salt" [effort:0] [phys:hands] *COOKERY* %20% /1/
{Sea-water} #6# [noquality]
{*pot}
[WEIGHT:0.24]
[NAME:Salt]

.Test cord. "Cord" (10) [effort:0] [phys:hands] *TRACKING* %100% /1/

.Test broad knife. "Broad knife" (10) [effort:0] [phys:hands] *TRACKING* %100% /1/
[NAME:Broad knife]

.Test handaxe. "Handaxe" (10) [effort:0] [phys:hands] *TRACKING* %100% /1/
[NAME:Handaxe]

.Test club. "Club" (10) [effort:0] [phys:hands] *TRACKING* %100% /1/
[NAME:Club]

.Test kaumo spear. "Kaumolais spear" (10) [effort:0] [phys:hands] *TRACKING* %100% /1/
[NAME:Kaumolais spear]

.Test javelin. "Javelin" (10) [effort:0] [phys:hands] *TRACKING* %100% /1/
[NAME:Javelin]

.Test northern bow. "Northern bow" [effort:0] [phys:hands] *TRACKING* [patch:10] %100% /1/
[NAME:Northern bow]

.Test arrow. "Arrow" (100) [effort:0] [phys:hands] *TRACKING* %100% /1/
[NAME:Arrow]

.Pike. [effort:0] [phys:hands] *COMMON* [noquality] /1/

[SUBMENU_END:TEST]

I use this whenever I need to test stuff or fix things. Note that to make custom items you'll have to define its properties. You can make a 100 pound pike if you want too

45
@Brygun there's a typo in the {Branch} item on the .Medieval drill. recipe, the brackets are wrong.

Ialso noticed that a lot of ironworking is using TIMBERCRAFT rather than CARPENTRY. Is this on purpose as well?

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