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Messages - Petike

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General Discussion / Re: Wiki down
« on: April 24, 2019, 11:02:45 PM »
I've noticed this as well. Might be just a server hiccup, the usual.

I don't have reference books at hand, but based on my memory: a whistling arrow works with aquatic birds, when the flock is flying above a body of water. The arrow is shot so that it flies above the flock of birds - they hear the whistling sound above them, take it as a sign of danger, and seek cover by diving into the water below them. Then the hunter readies ordinary hunting arrows, waits for the birds to surface one after one, trying to hit them the very moment when they surface - that often is the moment when they don't move for a second, and we all know that hitting a stationary target is far more easier than trying to down a flying bird.

Yes, that's what I meant. It's all about tricking the birds to land temporarily, making them an easier target to hit (even with conventional arrows) than if they were in flight.

Why would whistling arrows force waterfowl to land?  ???
When a loud noise scares birds, don't they all immediately fly off in a huge flock?

Good point, that would be my first thought as well. However, it is a bit case dependent. All the more that in the real world, these types of arrow can come in several arrowhead configurations, producing different sounds depending on the design.

As Sami explains in the video, the particular design of whistling arrowhead he's demonstrating creates a sound that is reminescent of a falcon or other bird of prey's cry or chirp. Birds hunted by these species often have a tendency to seek cover if they hear these sounds. I suppose it's because many small bird of prey species, falcons included, are notoriously fast flyers. It might be a better survival strategy to ground yourself and hide, rather than trying to outfly them. (Waterfowl are still a bit more nimble while on land, than virtually all bird of prey.)

Given that the particular Siberian ethnicity that used these was apparently quite successful in using whistling arrows in ambush hunting strategies, I suppose the trick works. Yes, it does sound counterintuitive at first hearing, but there was probably something to it if it remained a popular bit of hunting equipment for so many centuries.

I'm not the final word on modding, but making anything produce a noise with that effect on birds does not seem possible, Petike.

Just to clarify: I didn't mean the whistling arrow's sound propagation would be tied to the area of effect. Instead, the arrow would directly project the area of effect, as an item in movement. Seems far simpler to code the outcome to the arrow itself, rather than to its sound effect.

If it's not possible to assign an action/effect like that to an arrow even in that simpler manner, then I suppose a functional whistling arrow addon will remain a pipe dream for now.

I've read quite a few articles about whistling arrows already years back, when I was reading about historical archery, including the various forms of hunting archery in different cultures around the world. Having recently watched Sami's video from his separate archery channel - on making and testing a Siberian-style whistling arrow - the idea immediately struck me. This could be a potential addon, official or by the modders, for the game. Specialised for waterfowl hunting. Not useful as an actual hunting projectile, but shot as an initial decoy to scare the birds into landing, thus becoming easier targets for conventional arrows.

* * *

On the off-chance someone tries to develop whistling arrows as a mod/addon idea:

I think they wouldn't be too sophisticated to necessitate being a barter item. Unlike broadheads, they don't need a metal arrowhead, so the player should be able to craft them, much like the standard arrows (with lithic arrowheads) or the blunt arrows. In fact, I see the hypothetical in-game whistling arrows as something of a cousin to the blunt arrows - fulfilling a more specialised role in ranged hunting. Blunts don't damage the outside of small prey and birds that much, or just knock them unconscious, while whistling arrows are an indirect tactical utensil.

I could imagine the hollow wooden arrowhead with the openings being manufactured from a block of wood (given the size, maybe a single block could yield material for even 2 or 3 whistling arrowheads). Crafting-wise, the player would have to:
1.) carve out or split the raw version of the arrowhead from a block of wood
2.) split the arrowhead (or several, depending on the yield) with a knife or handaxe
3.) hollow out the halves of the arrowhead(s) with the use of a carving knife while next to a burning fire (either a campfire or a fire in the stove)
4.) put the pieces together with tying material or whatever is already used for gluing purposes

The remaining part of the whistling arrow (shaft, fletching, arrowhead attachment, etc.) would be crafted in the same manner as the standard (lithic) arrows, and the blunt arrows.

While hunting, the whistling arrow's flight over a particular area could generate some sort of trigger in that location, causing any bird in a particular radius to stop flying and land on the ground or a water surface. This would be especially effective with waterfowl, marginally or occassionally effective with the various grouse species, and completely ineffective with predatory birds.

I suppose some secondary uses (besides the primary one, waterfowl hunting) could include:
- startling a land animal (e.g. scaring away a predator without fighting it)
- startling a human adversary NPC at a distance (possibly as a temporary distraction)
- a signal for any human companion NPCs (rallying signal, warning signal, attack signal, etc.)

* * *

Concerning a historical realism perspective, I honestly don't know if there is any surviving material evidence of whistling arrows from Scandinavia from the pre-gunpowder era. I know a general problem in Finnish archaeology is that a lot of the soils in Finland are not too conductive to artefact preservation. Wood is an obvious material that can easily rot away and decompose over the course of several years, decades and particularly centuries. So it wouldn't be any wonder if no traditional Finnish hunting arrows from antiquity or the early Middle Ages survive today. Whistling arrows included.

It might be a stretch introducing them into the game, but you have the excuse of their usage among the wider group of Finno-Ugric language nationalities. Then there's the fact the game has the rare hand-and-a-half swords as a minor permitted anachronism. Personally, I think whistling arrows wouldn't be too weird in the existing setting.  ;)

General Discussion / A Christmas present to the community by me
« on: December 20, 2018, 07:50:56 PM »
Sorry if the title sounds a little grandiose. ;D

Since late November, I've been updating the official wiki, on and off.

Mostly just adding categories and structure to the whole thing (though a lot of it was good to begin with, so I had my work cut out for me, in a sense), occassionally uploading some new images for the still missing ones in articles (there are still many), expanding several articles with more detailed information and improved formatting (sections with headings, instead of unbroken paragraphs), and occassionally creating a few new articles (I did one on NPC conversations, a few short ones on terrain types (this I still want to extend), and one article on the types of "pets" the player receives at the start when they select the last starting scenario). Images are now neatly sorted into their own subcategories within an image category, so you'll be able to make sense of the images uploaded to the wiki much, much more easily than before. There's a Healing and medicine subcategory in the equally new Gameplay category, and so on and so forth.

Hope you like the category work in particular. I tried to be as rigorous and logical as possible while expanding upon the already existing categories and adding new ones. Hopefully you'll find the additions useful and quick to work with (making it easier to find inter-related stuff quickly on the wiki). I'm still working on improving some articles or finishing a few of the newer ones, but much of the planned work is done by this point.

Feedback is very welcome !

And if anyone wants to help the visual side of the wiki by providing screenshots of still missing content from the latest release of the game, that would be very welcome. For certain objects and concepts, we still only have images from pre-3.30 versions, and even though those have their historical value, we also need more up-to-date images (3.52 and higher).

As Christmas is nearly here, I'd like to wish everyone a peaceful, healthy and relaxing holiday season. :)

Suggestions / Re: Craftable punts ? And what should the limitations be ?
« on: December 13, 2018, 06:33:03 AM »
I've been thinking of multi-steps for what Erkka posted which is close to the dugout recipe in memory. As Novrus has a birch bark one I've not been too mindful of writing the code and testing it right now. Borrowing from my block tubs the concept is


Plus you would need to make a paddle (already in game)

Nice ideas ! I like the multiple-steps nature of the process.

Gameplay questions / Re: Best way to preserve berries long-term ?
« on: December 09, 2018, 12:58:20 AM »
Hi! :)

They will spoil in a cellar as well, yes, however, it will be at a slower pace. However, they will rot fairly quick and won't last you through a winter. You can however look through the mods forum, for various food mods. Some will give you the ability to dry berries, which have a longer spoilage period.

I see. It's a real pity the base game doesn't already have more food preservation methods. I thought drying could potentially work, but I've never seen anyone mention that method outside of meaty food sources. One of those things that feels like an oversight in the game. Drying at least some of the fruit and plants for the inhospitable season, as backup supplies, should be an option.

Gameplay questions / Best way to preserve berries long-term ?
« on: December 06, 2018, 05:14:23 PM »
What's the best method of preserving berries for a long time, e.g. the autumn and winter until spring, other than just chucking them inside a cellar ? Can berries start to spoil or rot in a cellar ?

Thank you kindly for any and all advice.

Development News / Re: Life hurts
« on: December 05, 2018, 08:15:33 AM »
I've just learnt of this. Sorry to hear about the injury, but I second the others in wishing you a swift and problem-free recovery.  Get well soon ! :)

Suggestions / Re: Snowshoes
« on: December 05, 2018, 05:36:46 AM »
As someone's who made attempts to manufacture snowshoes at home, in the most traditional way possible, I'm also willing to speak up for snowshoes. Though we might need to look into potential historical accuracy issues (I know URW isn't historical, but it is Finnish-inspired), I think snowshoes would be a wonderful addition to the skis.

The ancient Finns are likely to have used a sort of a swampshoe to walk on swampy ground, and this type could be used as a snowshoe as well. You can find a picture of a swampshoe and swampskis here - as you can see the swampshoe bears strong resemblance to the "bearpaw" type of snowshoe, but would carry less weight, being more open design to avoid getting stuck in a swamp. The gap between a swampshoe and a proper snowshoe looks like it's quite short, but it does seem that the type of snowshoe that developed in North America was never really developed in Europe. But it would not be completely anachronistic.

Very interesting, thank you ! Especially for the link.

Looking a bit further back than the Iron Age, at the European Neolithic, we also have some evidence of "ice-shoe" footwear accessories, created as a means to prevent skidding while walking on icy or frozen-over surfaces.

One such type, a sort of detachable outer cover for the simple straw-filled shoes underneath, was found among the equipment and clothing that belonged to "Ötzi", the remains of the famous Chalcolithic era man found in the Alps back in the early 1990s. You can have a look here, I've put a timestamp on the spot where his clothing and footwear is discussed. (A thing that amused me was that his outermost layer of clothing was a cloak made of grass. Reminded me immediately of the cloaks made from nettle fibers we have in URW. :D)

Suggestions / Re: Craftable punts ? And what should the limitations be ?
« on: December 05, 2018, 05:25:05 AM »
Thank you, all ! So many great comments since my last visit. :) Even by Erkka ! ;D Feels like an outright privilege.

Genuinely fascinating discussion and some really interesting ideas with the code. I might test it in the game, just out of curiosity.

There is no evidence of Iron Age Finland using birch bark canoes but as I am Canadian have a lot of imagery regarding canoes. There is a birch-bark canoe in my mod. Each major step takes a precious menu line which are limited in number.

Haven't heard of that boat type used in Fennoscandia either. Native American style canoes probably never really occured in European prehistory.

Birch-bark canoes are certainly cool bits of material culture, of course. I don't bemoan any modders who try to bring them into the game. It's still setting-friendly and adds more options to the watercraft roster, along with more traditional solutions (leather boats, dugouts, rafts, etc.).
IIRC the self sufficency mod had a recipe for a dugout canoe. Due to their ease of making just about wherever mankind was someone at some point made a dug out canoe.

There is evidence of the era and geography having leather skin boats and dug out canoes.

I'm not that surprised about this, it seems logical these would be the resources they'd have readily available for building small, general purpose boats.

Having read about archaeology conducted in Europe alone, the dugout is a design that's been a perennial mainstay in virtually any culture - even inland ones - that need regular use of boats, if only to cross rivers or lakes. Though dugouts are hefty, they are fairly practical when it comes to the resources available.

Bouidda and thus Nyxz have a "punt" that appears to be built up of boards. That to me seems to be a clinker built boat.

There is evidence of clinker built boats being used by the Anglos and Scandanavians in the 600s. I was watching a documentary on that today actually.

I don't think the punt we see is a clinker boat it is however the only vanilla graphic we have.

From what I know, clinker-style construction was more of a medieval era approach, or at its earliest, maybe a method developed in late European antiquity. It would be a bit modern for what the player could build, and I've always thought of it as a method more suitable for large boats or ships, rather than small, one- or two-man vessels.

There was an old mod which had a recipe for making a leather punt. I think it was Rain or Endive but Im not sure. I have been meaning to look that up.

I've been thinking rewriting or finding the old leather punt recipe too.

Nice !  8) And thanks again for the code you've already posted. I really appreciate it you looking into this to such an extent.   8)

Suggestions / Re: Craftable punts ? And what should the limitations be ?
« on: December 01, 2018, 01:40:44 PM »
Perhaps it's an assumption on my part but I thought a punt was like a coracle, possibly made with skins?

I myself am unsure at this point, but from what I remember, some older releases depicted it as a dugout.

As for other boat types, coracles would be quite plausible one-man vessels for limited small cargo loads. You could make those from slender trunks and enough outside leather covering, I suppose, and they could be carried by the character, instead of just dragged ashore. Though I'm not sure if there's any evidence for them in Fennoscandia in the period that URW is trying to loosely depict.

I never got the impression the punt is a coracle. Though non-circuclar coracles are possible, the punt has a very specific, boat-like shape. A real elongated coracle would have to have a roughly regular shape on both ends, or have the even more common circuclar shape (or a rectangular shape with highly curved, non-pointy ends). Real life coracles are rather limited in terms of the shape you can give them, given their construction. Even birch-bark canoes are more flexible in terms of how you can design them on the outside.

If it's a dugout type, that would require controlled burns for days and a tool like an adze for working the inner hull down. I suppose it could be some type of bark-hulled boat, like a canoe?

Ah, good point !

You're right that the inclusion of an adze in particular (or similar tool) would necessitate new assets.

Suggestions / Re: Snowshoes
« on: November 30, 2018, 10:53:55 PM »
Every char should get skis or SS (can be improvised from few spruce twigs) in winter. How get the njerp there in the first place and why is he so pantsy in winter after few steps?

As someone who's made attempts to manufacture snowshoes at home, in the most traditional way possible, I'm also willing to speak up for snowshoes. Though we might need to look into potential historical accuracy issues (I know URW isn't historical, but it is Finnish-inspired), I think snowshoes would be a wonderful addition to the skis.

They'd be slower (basically average walking speed, no speed bonus), but maybe they could help diminish a player character's fatigue from walking in deep snow. That seems like a logical in-game justification for them, at least as far as I'm concerned.

Concerning what cultures you could find them in and buy them from, I think it's rather predictable they'd be the most common among the Northern Region tribes. I don't know how common or uncommon skiis are among all of the cultures in the current game, but if there's already some variation in the quantity of ski usage by the different cultures, it could make sense for there to be some variation in snowshoe usage as well.

Suggestions / Craftable punts ? And what should the limitations be ?
« on: November 30, 2018, 10:23:20 PM »
I've noticed that punts are only acquirable by quests or by buying them for adequate barter material in a village. This wouldn't be bad in terms of game balance, but from a realism perspective, it has me scratching my head a bit...

Unless I'm mistakened (and feel free to correct me), the punts in URW are basically dugout boats (monoxylons). They're a single tree trunk carved into the shape of a small, usable boat, and often propelled by a sesta (punt pole), or a paddle. At least that's the impression I've had from some of the photographic illustrations provided for these simple vehicles.

If they're made from a single tree trunk and are dugouts, wouldn't it make some degree of sense that the player could manufacture one ? At least a smaller, one-man version, perhaps ?

Not without limitations, of course. I think a natural potential limitation could be the type of axes (e.g. a carving axe) and other tools (e.g. knives) at the player's disposal. Unless the player acquires a small array of very specific tools, he/she can't hollow out the tree trunk on a whim, as if it was no hard work and no effort at all.

I just find it strange that you have to go to a lot of trouble finding material for a raft - three separate tree trunks, then tying equipment you have to manufacture over a long time - when it's a simple vehicle only at first glance, but requires a lot more material investment. The punt looks far simpler in comparison. Granted, I think that if craftable punts were to be included, another limitation for them would be the length of time needed for manufacturing,

For rafts, you'd need to gather a lot of materials, but the assembly time would be short, while for punts, you'd only need a tree trunk as material, but it might a good long while until you hollow it out into a suitable punt shape. At least as long as it takes to build three or four segments of a log cabin ("Wooden Building") wall in the game, with an average character. This would help prevent the crafting of punts become easily abusable, and make it into something more of a long-term goal.

Additionally, maybe another way to make punt crafting a bit harder is the need to gather information on the process first from particular villages. You go to a village, meet the local who sells fishing and watercraft related goods, and you have to be on good terms with him/her and sell them something before they decide to tell you how to properly build a punt. Only then, and with the right tools for the jobs, could you start hollowing out a tree trunk. In essence, you could still craft a punt, but it would require some effort to become skillful at this sort of task, and this would in turn guarantee that people wouldn't avoid crafting rafts. Rafts would still be useful and necessary until the player learns how to build his or her own punt.

Just some thoughts on the subject. I'd love to hear others' opinions on this, the pros and cons. :)

I know there are already some good mods out there or in development that add more craftable watercraft, especially of the simple variety, but I was wondering whether punts could be given a similar treatment. One that wouldn't make the game much easier, but would still give the player slightly more options when trying to fish or travel across water.

Mod Releases / Re: Chicken coop for the homestead
« on: November 19, 2018, 08:04:55 PM »
You can just place the file(s) to URW folder, and drop the images (Truetile folder) into the image folder

Thank you. I've already tested it before noticing your reply. It seems to be working fine. Unfortunately, I found 7 grouse eggs with my character, but had him carelessly eat 3 of them. Now I can't build the grouse coop because I need just 1 egg to build it. :D I suppose I'll have to look around the island I'm stuck on.

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