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Messages - Helldiver

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Gameplay questions / Re: does flour spoil?
« on: September 27, 2018, 01:40:06 PM »
Grain flour seems to keep pretty well. It's lake reed roots and lake reed flour you've got to watch out for, as those don't seem to last any longer than a few months (though if you keep it in a cellar over winter, you seem to get more mileage out of them).

Suggestions / Re: New look of rain a bit hard on the eyes
« on: September 27, 2018, 01:31:30 PM »
I kind of LIKE the eye strain effect?  I think heavy rain and snow should impair visibility somewhat and the graphics actually do that.

I know what you mean, and I'm usually an immersion-freak, especially for this game. But even I find the rain graphics a bit of a pain at times, and have been wondering if I couldn't edit it (btw, thanks for the tip about finding and editing, PALU!). Everything better in moderation, I say. If the game makes it possible for me to spear a moose with a few strokes of my keyboard, I don't feel too fussed about putting comfort ahead of immersion for some aspects of the game.

And besides, some people have legitimate health issues that might mean they have physical difficulty playing a game where the UI isn't as accommodating. Optical strain is a worse problem for some people than for others.

Suggestions / Re: How about Scurvy?
« on: September 27, 2018, 01:16:32 PM »
As I understand it, the eating of raw flesh wasn't a practice among the peoples of Finland, the way it has been with some peoples of Siberia or the Arctic Americas. However, we know the Sami at least were aware of the problems posed by scurvy, and had various foods they would eat to stave it off, especially during the dark winter months. Such foods would have included pine bark flour, birch sap, various plants (such as sow thistle and sorrel) boiled with the milk of reindeer to produce a cheese-like food called gompa. The roots of angelica and Cicerbita alpina were dried and chewed on throughout the year, as much for their flavor and for amusement as for their nutritional / medicinal properties.

There's more written here:

Berries too were preserved, mostly by submerging in water to make something akin to vattlingon which is still consumed today (I have also heard of preservation in reindeer fat instead of water). For preserving in water, any combination of berries could be used, but you would at least need to include either lingonberries or cloudberries or both in the mixture: they are the berries that contain the highest amounts of oxalic acid, and that would be the agent mostly responsible for making sure the berries do not rot in the water.

Currently, we do not have mechanisms in the game to preserve berries or plants or whatever. My personal opinion is that it would be a little unfair to add a disease (which would have been well-known and preventable even in those times) to the game without giving the player a chance to do something about it. Not to say I wouldn't welcome it as a possible addition to the game, merely that the decision whether and how to develop it is not something that's up to me.

Stories / Re: Mik
« on: December 28, 2017, 07:36:26 AM »
Those badgers really have a knack for making you feel ineffectual. One of them once led me on a merry chase starting north of Driik territory and circling all around Sartola territory. After five days, I almost had it cornered, but then my character passed out from lack of sleep and food, and I lost it again.

Gameplay questions / Re: Short Questions/Quick Answers
« on: December 26, 2017, 08:56:07 PM »
EDIT: Nope, hits to the neck (only applies to large animals) seems to not affect the hide, tested with an elk falling to a spiked pit and once it fell unconscious with blunt attacks I performed a hit to the neck with a battlesword using the edge, it died later by bleeding and the result was a "elk carcass", no mangled, harmed, grisly or any negative message regarding the condition of the hide.

Well, hits to the neck don't result in any of the above indicators, but they still can result in decreased hide quality, because "mangled / harmed" seems to be only one factor among many affecting hide quality... I have obtained "fine" quality skins from harmed carcasses on numerous occasions, at a hideworking skill level where "fine" was the best I could generally hope to get.

Suggestions / Wearable trinkets
« on: December 26, 2017, 08:53:52 PM »
Just what the title says. I like that we have ornaments and trinkets in the game now, and thought it would be nice if the characters could wear them instead of just carrying them around to trade.

Of course, it's not a big deal whichever way, because we don't see our characters wear their clothing, either. So there's absolutely nothing to prevent us from imagining our characters "wearing" the accessories that they are actually carrying in their inventories. I just thought I'd bring it up once.

(And yes, for the record, Iron-Age Finnish men wore jewelry too. Neck pendants, finger rings, ornamental brooches, and even some arm rings have all been found in male graves, likely worn by the grave owners at the time of burial.)

Suggestions / Re: Textiles and Scissors
« on: December 26, 2017, 08:47:14 PM »
Currently there is no point in bolts of cloth in villages since UrW doesn't provide means to make clothes out of them. Once clothes making makes it in bolts of cloth would make a lot of sense.

Well, making cloth is very labor-intensive and also requires a very particular skillset (spinning + weaving can turn out very different results depending on the skill of the manufacturer), so it might not be feasible to add cloth-making as a function anytime soon. But I don't see why the current "make fur/leather clothing" code can't be utilized so characters can make a shirt or leggings or whatnot out of bolts of pre-woven wool / linen / nettle cloth.

Scissors/shears should probably be included when sheep shearing makes it into the game, with the attendant clothes making (Ah! some warms socks and mittens for the winter!).

I would like to see nalbinding make it into the game someday... it's a technique a bit like crocheting, used to make socks and mittens in Scandinavia since the Viking era and probably before then. Scraps from what look like mittens made with nalbinding have been found in Finnish graves as well, the most famous example being from the Eura grave find:

A fragment of what is thought to be a mitten, from the "Eura" find. Included in a paper by archaeologist Krista Vajanto, permalink here.

Unlike spinning, it doesn't require a lot of dexterity or skill or even a huge time commitment to turn out a wearable product, so I think it's well-suited to the average URW adventurer who doesn't want to buy their mittens in a store, or maybe who is just bored on a cold winter's night.

Sickles were probably the tools of choice for grain harvesting during the UrW time line, as I think scythes were introduced later in history.

I doubt any but the most modernized farms in Finland were using scythes for harvesting even into the 20th century, as the design of the most commonly used scythe in Finland does not seem to have been conducive to the harvesting process. (Of course, many farms in Finland now are probably using machines to harvest). Correct me if I'm wrong, but any harvesting scythe would need to have a cradle of some sort, to catch the falling stalks of grain so that the harvester could lay them aside neatly, without scattering stalks / single grains all over the place and wasting a lot of precious crop yield.

In fact, not only does the Finnish scythe seem to have no cradle (as described at this blog post), but it also doesn't have the second handle seen in the Austrian scythe, making it even less suited for reaping grain. It's quite awe-inspiring to watch the Finnish farmers make hay with it, though. The following video (which can also be seen at the above linked post) was filmed in the early 20th century, and shows Finnish scythes in action:

Instead, harvesting seems to have been done largely by gripping the grain with one hand and cutting it free with a sickle held in the other hand, and the cut sheaves would have been carefully bundled together as the harvester went.

Suggestions / Re: Rotting Warning
« on: December 26, 2017, 07:55:51 PM »
I was playing 3.40. Then I just bought the game in the Christmas sale. So not only am I sure that I deleted all the original files, I was reinstalling it in a different location (Steam). So that can't possibly be the issue. And yet, the same problem is there. It's not game-killing. I just have to remember not to pick it up before it's ready. But also I can't check how long it has to go because you only get that message when you try to pick it up.

Actually, I think you do need to uninstall the old version as well, because even if you have the game installed somewhere else on your machine, URW runs preferentially from the separate installation folder, even if you're launching directly from Steam.

At any rate, I don't think it hurts to try. I would back up any game folders and graphics mods first.

I'm a bit worried I'm seriously derailing the thread but anyway... someone can move it if need be...

Well, you had a suggestion to give. And I think it's a decent suggestion, so I would think there's nothing wrong with leaving this thread here.

But if we want to talk more about this problem you're having, I do think it would be more productive to start a new thread in the Bug Reports forum... even if it's not a bug with the program itself, you'll probably have an easier time getting troubleshooting help over there.

Solved'n'fixed bug reports / Re: 3.50b2 ram milk
« on: December 26, 2017, 03:03:59 AM »
I'm just going to say... (NSFW ahead)

Spoiler: show
Are we sure that was actually milk?

Suggestions / Re: Textiles and Scissors
« on: December 26, 2017, 02:03:49 AM »
The suggestion for bolts of cloth is a good one, I think. It also seems more realistic for the time period than to sell articles of clothing fully made.

But as to scissors, I am skeptical about adding them for the main reason that scissors were not necessarily around in the time/place Unreal World is based on. I will have to look at my sources again, but from what I can tell, there were only small scissors used to cut threads, and they would have been forged as a single piece with no handles, quite different from the scissors we use today. And no hedge clippers.

Also, you are aware that cords can be made from furs and leather as well as cloth, right? If it bothers you to take apart a piece of sewn clothing to make a cord, you can always use a hide.

EDIT: I have looked around and found these Viking Age scissors exhibited at the National Museum of Denmark. These are not Finnish finds, but the description of Finnish finds from the same era coincide with the shape of these. It seems the smaller ones were primarily used for hair trimming, helping with shaving, and other grooming needs, or for sewing. And the larger ones shown here (which are still quite small) would have been used for cutting fabric and shearing sheep.

I have still not found any verifiable instances of scissors used for wood or agriculture... and indeed, everything I know about grain cultivation + harvesting (as opposed to ornamental gardening and landscaping) suggests that scissors would get in the way more than they helped.

Suggestions / Re: Rotting Warning
« on: December 26, 2017, 01:26:13 AM »
No. I can pick it up before it is ready for the beating stage. I then have to go through the water stage again, seemingly with the clock re-starting. From what PALU was saying I shouldn't be able to pick it up.

You’re right, you shouldn’t be able to do that. Did you uninstall AND reinstall the entire game after removing the mod? Maybe you have some residual files left over from the mod.

Suggestions / Re: Rotting Warning
« on: December 26, 2017, 01:02:04 AM »
Sorry to post again. The problem is still there.

I left the skin to tan. I come back and can't pick it up. It says come back in a couple of hours. I come back and it says "fine tanning elk skin". I try to pick it up and I can pick it up. In my inventory I now have "fine tanning elk skin". I try to move to the next stage of tanning but I am back at the previous stage and it tells me to come back in the small hours. What is going on? I can look at it again and it says "fine rinsed elk skin (being prepared)".

This sounds normal? As long as the process asked you to use water and not fat or bark in the second stage, you should be fine?

Can you use a beater on the rinsed skin now?

EDIT: Is the problem still that you are able to pick up the skin when you shouldn’t be able to? And I am not sure what you mean by “I am back at the previous stage”... if the flags for skin status keep changing (“tanning skin” —> “rinsed skin”) this sounds like everything is moving along fine, and not like you’re starting over from the beginning.

Suggestions / Re: Rotting Warning
« on: December 24, 2017, 03:55:50 PM »
I just checked out the page for Buoidda’s mod, and it seems even the latest version of it is not up-to-date: for version 3.40b as opposed to the new 3.50b, or even the current stable version of 3.40.

It sucks to lose progress, definitely. :( But better than what you’ve been experiencing, which sounds like a total pain in the tuchus.

Suggestions / Re: Rotting Warning
« on: December 24, 2017, 03:28:24 PM »
Edit: I saw you posted a reply while I was writing mine. It sounds like there’s a problem with your game first and foremost. I would try removing the mod and starting a new savegame for testing purposes, first, as the mod seems like the most likely culprit.

I can pick up the "tanning skin" while it is still part-way through the process. This seems to interrupt the tanning and I have to do it again. The times declared also seem to be inaccurate. It often says things like, the skin will be ready by early morning, and I come back at this time and it's not ready. Late morning, still not ready. And so on.

It doesn’t necessarily sound like you’re doing anything wrong, because the game is allowing you to do things that should literally be impossible. I can never pick anything up during the tanning process, the game just tells me to come back later and won’t complete the action.

I apologize if the questions I’m about to ask seem insultingly obvious, but I am merely asking for troubleshooting purposes, just to rule out the most obvious causes.

  • You are tanning each skin a total of three times, correct? After you clean the skin with water, you should tan once with fat / bark to get a “tanning skin”, then a second time with water to get a “rinsed skin”, and a third time with a beater / stone to get a fur or leather. It’s only when the whole process is complete that you’re safe from quality dropping, and skipping any of these steps, or taking too long to move onto the next one will result in skin quality degrading in the interim.
  • Are you sure the time is actually off? If the skin is not ready at the time you expect, have you tried checking back, say, two in-game hours later? The reason I ask is because time in URW is divided into blocks, with each block having its own name (Like “after midnight”, “noon”, “early morning”, etc.) and if the game tells you that a process is “done by after midnight”, what they actually mean is that the process will be done at a point in time that falls within the “after midnight” block of time. They don’t mean “you can be sure that this process will be completed before midnight”, which is how a native speaker of American English would be most likely to understand the phrasing of that sentence. So to be sure, I would check a hide meant to be done “by after midnight” during “small hours”. It would be a delay of a few hours at most, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a skin’s quality degrade just because I left it a few extra hours after it was done.
  • The one exception to the “a couple of extra hours is no problem” general rule is soaking a hide to de-hair it, because I find hides left for too long in that stage DO go bad really fast. Are you sure you are performing this step only when you want to make leather, and not for every hide? (TBH, this is why I just buy a pig and slaughter it if I want leather, or just buy a leather good from the villages.)
  • How high is your hideworking skill? I have not really played a character with low hideworking skill before, so I am wondering if part of the reason the game is giving you inaccurate time estimates is because that’s what happens at a lower skill level?
  • Because you seem to be able to do things that the game just should not allow you to do, it sounds like there’s the possibility of a problem with your actual game. Which version are you playing? Do you use any mods, especially crafting mods?

General Discussion / Re: Question for Sami
« on: December 23, 2017, 09:43:17 PM »
Caius breaks it down really well, I thought, especially when it comes to how such a question would present from a programming perspective.

Regarding that the question of marriage keeps coming up, I think there is a tendency for excited newbie players to overestimate how much any single feature will improve gameplay, especially if that feature is still just in the theoretical stages. (And I’ve been very guilty of jumping the gun myself in the past.) But if you read Caius’s breakdown, it becomes clear that in most scenarios, marriage will simply become another game feature governed by metrics, and it will add no more intrinsic depth to the game experience than you might get from exploring the in-game cooking options more deeply, or making fuller use of the already existing animal or companion system.

I’m not saying that it will make NO difference, but that it will be at least as much work and tweaking to implement as any other feature, while not being any more revolutionary than any other feature that could be added.

I’ve played CK2 a lot myself, and there are definitely some fun aspects of the marriage and family system in that game. However, I for one would be very sad to see URW move down the same path. There’s something very mercenary and Machiavellian about how relationships work in that game... which is fun in its own way and works for CK2 because it fits with the concept of the whole game, to treat human beings like symbols and chess pieces, and determine the fate of millions without having to think about the consequences befalling each individual. But that’s not the vibe I get from Unreal World, because it’s a game I play for pleasure, not distraction. I feel attached to it because in the Unreal World I feel like there’s room for attachments to breathe and exist, rather than every ounce of emotion and motivation just being directed towards a predetermined goal or victory. If a game starts just being constantly about the thrill of the chase, without variance or surprises or even the opportunity to contemplate why I chase, that’s when ennui sets in and the game stops being fulfilling.

It’s like that with simulating relationships too, in that while I’m not opposed to the basic idea, I have my share of misgivings about the implementation. The point of having spouses and partners in real life isn’t just as a warm body or someone to do their share of the chores, or as (pardon the phrasing, but that’s really how it’s depicted in games like CK2) breeding machines. Even the people who are asking for this change right here and now, a program-based solution like the one they are proposing is not necessarily going to effectively fill their want, deep down... and especially not within the time frame they are asking for.

I dunno. I am personally of the opinion that it’s far better to be lonely than in an unfulfilling relationship, so maybe it’s that attitude carrying into my gaming style. The only thing that might get me to change my mind is if Sami himself found a way to integrate that approach into the overall style of the game. And it’s happened before... I used to be skeptical about how a magic system would work in URW, but the newer quest-related gameplay, getting to interact with spirits, and in general being shown-not-told the ancient Pagan worldview is a great development in the game, and the one that made me fall in love with it all over again.

Ultimately it comes down to vision, and one of the best things about this game is how much work the developers put into realizing their unique one. I want to echo many of the opinions given in the other thread (the poll thread) and say that the consistency shown by Sami and Erkka in developing this world is what keeps me sticking with this game, like how a person who is quietly self-confident and seems to know their own mind (even if it means we sometimes disagree) is usually more attractive than someone who acts like a weathercock.

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