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Messages - caius

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1
Modding / Re: Restart game courses or more quest mod or hex
« on: January 14, 2018, 04:57:39 AM »
I know of no mod for what you are requesting.  Instead, my following comments should probably be in the gameplay sub-forum.  But in reply to your sense of being "done", here are a few of my thoughts. 

A few goals once you feel stable and secure:
  • Obtain the best clothing possible.  Buy masterwork clothing whenever you can and then fine clothing if not masterwork.  Try to craft a complete set of fine fur and leather clothing.
  • Buy masterwork tools and gear.  Get a complete masterwork set of axes and knives.  Obtain masterwork spears, bows, maces, etc.  Obtain a complete set of masterwork swords (except for scimitars, I haven't ever found any of masterwork quality).  Get as many perfect and fine nets as possible.  Buy a perfect fishing rod and perfect shovel.  And so on...
  • Diversify your farm of animals.  Purchase the biggest animals possible.  Try to collect big bulls/cows, boars/pigs, dogs of both genders, sheep/rams, etc..
  • Replace any boards used in the construction of your main home/settlement with fine/perfect boards.
  • Establish multiple hunting lodges and fishing lodges throughout the map.  Spread the lodges along all major rivers (maybe the long rivers have 2+ lodges along their lengths) and possibly one lodge in (or near) every culture.  Each lodge would be small at first (2x2 interior dimension) with a sleeping bunk, table, and fireplace).  Expand it to larger sizes if possible.  Stock each lodge with some dried food and grains/flour for cooking later.  Have cords in each lodge and some supplies (e.g. stock a few nets in lodges on rivers).  Have a cellar at each lodge.
  • Win over your preferred culture (or multiple cultures).  Give away your food to all the villages in an entire culture (maybe furs or other gear).  Ensure they love you. 

I ended up taking one of my most successful characters on solo bear hunts.  This character had a main settlement and food coming out of my wazoo.  I had become a grandmaster in hideworking due to amazingly successful trap fences and small traps/snares.  After I maxed all my gear and built multiple hunting and fishing lodges, as well as auxillary trap fences, I decided to hunt bears.  After a while, I left my dogs behind and was eventually taken down by a bear. 

2
Gameplay questions / Bones
« on: January 08, 2018, 07:56:44 PM »
I have my first character in 3.5 (vanilla, no mods) and keep collecting bones from butchering animals.  Possible spoiler questions...
Spoiler: show
Is there something in the base  game that uses animal bones? 
Are there spells I haven't unlocked yet? 
Or are bones to enable mods?
What about antlers?

3
Bug reports / Re: My world's ground is gray
« on: January 07, 2018, 06:14:03 PM »
Yup.  That happens to me also and I think it is normal and intentional.  I've noticed the ground colors goes through a cycle.  For example, it should soon turn white, then green, then the brownish you call gray, then white...

I think the change in ground color is seasonal  ;)

4
Suggestions / Re: Trainers
« on: December 30, 2017, 05:07:23 PM »
- If the trainer is a hired special companion as per caius' suggestion, you might not need any guaranteed results at all. Instead, the trainer would act as an actual sparring partner in the case of melee, and instructor in the case of ranged training (with the instruction part probably abstracted away). However, it would be useful to simulate the instruction aspect by increasing the odds of gaining a skill point from training (while still maintaining the current daily maximum). The trouble here would probably to change the combat point so the trainer backs off when gaining the upper hand, rather than killing the student (it's possible the robber behavior code might be of use).

In the current combat system, I don't know when an upper hand is achieved.  I can imagine the NPC trainer breaking my arm and still wailing away on me with a blunted practice axe.  Or even knocking me unconscious with one hit and then getting in another few shots while I'm down before they back off.  Also, we've all experienced the one-hit-one-kill phenomenon and I'd hate for that to happen in a "safe" training environment to either the player or the NPC.

The coding for an actual sparring partner might be a challenge.  If the NPC weapons trainer entered an aggressive state in order to engage in combat, what would happen to other NPC villagers?  Would they pile on?  What if the player had dogs nearby?  Would the dogs try to attack the NPC trainer?

Having said all that, any weapon training option would be welcome.

5
Suggestions / Re: Trainers
« on: December 29, 2017, 05:42:02 PM »
I've been thinking about weapons training specifically and also have a few thoughts.  I'll also offer a shout out to the HEMA alliance if any of you are interested: https://www.hemaalliance.com/  Also a comment about my own bias, I don't like Privateer's current mod for combat training dummies.  It is a good workaround but doesn't fit into the feel and style of URW (IMO).  It also doesn't work in any sort of historical context.

  • Weapon training is a grind in real life.  It takes months and years to improve in skill and ability with a weapon.
  • Learning a weapon alone is incredibly difficult.  A teacher fixes basic mistakes, offers a more skilled opponent, provides a safe (safer) place to fail, and challenges the student to consider new questions and seek for solutions to those questions.
  • Weapons training often requires specially adapted equipment and protection.
  • Weapons training also requires a safe space or physical location.

So, if a weapon training system is on the table for development, I'd recommend some of the following mechanics be considered:
  • Only a few NPCs in each culture should be weapons trainers.  There might be cultural limitations for which weapon skills are available.  For example, maybe teachers for the highest skill levels are limited by culture...
    • Shield - Driik
    • Knife - Kaumo and Sarto
    • Sword - Driik
    • Club - Seal
    • Axe - Kiesse and Reemi
    • Flail - Koivu, Sarto, and Reemi
    • Spear - Seal
    • Bow - Owl
    • Crossbow - Driik
    • Unarmed - Kaumo, Sarto, and Owl
  • You should be able to search for NPC weapon trainers.
  • The weapon trainer offers an increase in a weapon skill like the current quest system does for weapon skill improvement.  That is, training gives the player character a guaranteed skill increase next time the player character uses that skill.
  • I like Palu's suggestion for reputation:
    • - In addition to a higher cost for higher level training higher levels of training should probably require higher levels of trust, so you'd have to build up a reputation with the potential trainers (and/or their villages) for them to accept to train you. That would prevent you from just traveling around the world to seek out the masters to gain mastery in a comparatively short time. Instead, you'd have to spend a considerable amount of time while concentrating on only a few skills (the ones available in your vicinity).
  • The player character must collect and craft specialized equipment for the NPC weapon trainer.  For example:
    • ...if a player is trying to improve the archery skill, they must obtain a bow for the weapon trainer (e.g. fine longbow, masterwork northern bow, etc.) based on cultural requirement, arrows that the NPC trainer keeps, and an archery butt (a new craftable item that serves as the target).
    • ...if a player is trying to improve the sword skill, they must obtain a suit of armor (complete set of fur clothing or leather clothing, iron helm, mail cowl, etc.) and a blunt wooden practice sword (the practice sword only causes blunt damage).  (Note: modding for this is rather easy.).
    • Blunted weapons would be needed for swords, knives, axes, etc..  Maybe a staff is equivalent enough for a spear. 
  • The NPC weapon trainer could become a companion with a specialized dialog option.  The player character asks the NPC to train them in a weapon, and if the player has a high enough reputation, the NPC says OK if the player provides the specialized equipment for training.  The player should also provide food and some type of reward or valuable to the NPC. 
  • After the NPC becomes a companion, a specialized command becomes available to train the player.
  • The NPC and player then train for a few hours and the player then gains negative consequences (e.g. blunt wounds from any weapons, lost arrows from archery practice, damage to the practice weapon or armor.
  • The NPC weapon trainer would only stay with the character for a few days and thereby limit how much skill improvement is allowed.
  • I also like Palu's suggestion for a cooldown so the NPC weapon trainer isn't able to be hired as a companion for at least a set period of time:

I believe some sort of NPC weapon trainer system would help a critical limitation in the current URW system.  Like Palu mentioned, this system will try to be gamed by players so balancing would be needed.

6
Gameplay questions / Re: Can i smoke meat on a village?
« on: December 28, 2017, 04:56:52 PM »
Yes, you can do it just fine.  Be cautious when picking up your completed meat as the AI seems to like to stack villager meat with the player.  For example, if you pick up a stack of smoked meat, there might be a smoked/dried/roasted fish or 5 in your stack that the villagers placed there. 

I didn't notice once and had villagers chasing after me to pay for meat I didn't know I took.

7
I just put a long post is a separate subject that probably should have gone here:
I have a few comments on the marriage poll and incorporating marriage into URW.  Others can comment on the role-playing nature of an NPC spouse or the ability to have children and have a multi-generational URW experience.  But I am reducing the arguments to two options for incorporating a NPC spouse: 1) the Resource Drain NPC Spouse, or 2) the Resource Generator NPC Spouse.  These options might be considered over simplifications (they are mechanistically not mutually exclusive). 

Option 1: The Resource Drain
For this option, a NPC spouse becomes a drain on player resources.  First, the spouse must be wooed and courted with furs, tools, weapons, valuables, etc.  In this option, a significant expenditure of player time is given to attract and then obtain a spouse.  The "cost" of a spouse would then be proportional to the perceived "value" of that spouse.  In this scenario, the spouse becomes a status symbol for the player through their ability to attract the "best".  It could be even that the spouse gives the player increasingly difficult quests as they become more involved along the wooing path.  Maybe there are differences between an in-culture marriage versus an out-of-culture marriage?

Second, after a marriage ceremony, the spouse must be provided for.  In this option, the NPC spouse is a bystander that consumes the player's food, clothes, tools, and weapons (maybe also armor, cords, bandages, bowls, etc.).  The player must spend time ensuring the spouse is sufficiently provided for so they stay committed to the marriage and alive.  In this option, a NPC spouse likely functions like current NPC villagers.  They wander around a specific location or follow the player around, but have limited utility.

The entire purpose of a resource drain NPC spouse is to add a monumental achievement to the URW experience.  That is, the player can not only provide for them-self, but they can attract and maintain the NPC spouse as a status symbol.  The resource drain NPC spouse then would "unlock" PALU's generational feature...
It can also be noted that there are probably very few people who play their characters for 17+ years so that they could have had "adult" offspring. This means you could potentially start a family, but any children would be unlikely to be adult when your character expires, so if a generational feature would be introduced it would probably have to be able to skip a number of years, which would require some kind of logic to advance the world (which should include repopulating village animal stocks, at the least, and probably replace some of all those villagers who died fighting robbers with your ex character as well).

Option 2: The Resource Generator

For this option, a NPC spouse would need to function differently than other villager or companion NPCs.  The NPC spouse in this scenario would need to be a productive member to contribute to living in URW.  For example, the resource generator NPC spouse would need to actually engage in meaningful labor around a settlement or while on a hunt.  This means they would need to accept and execute commands that take advantage of skills.  A resource generator NPC spouse is likely more accurate (they help contribute to life), but much more difficult to develop.  This option could also lead to players gaming the system or to unexpected results (or danger to the NPC spouse) due to poorly issues commands and limitations of the AI. 

A wooing process would need to take place.  However, while a resource drain NPC spouse would be a status symbol, a resource generator NPC spouse would be valued to complement the player.  For example, if a player is unskilled in something, woo a resource generator NPC spouse to compensate so they can perform those skills for you.

Once the courtship is completed, the resource generator NPC spouse would need to be functionally helpful to a player.  For example, if a player provides the necessary items (tools, weapons, seeds, pots, cords, etc.) and key instructions (location of a field to prepare/tend, trap fence to monitor, materials to process, etc.), the resource generator NPC spouse could process through a que of instructions.  For example, a resource generating NPC spouse could contribute to agriculture, hideworking, fishing, food preparation (smoking, salting, drying meat or making flatbread, stews, grinding flour, etc.), hunting, building, monitoring a trap fence, checking traps, making clothes, tools, or weapons, etc..  A resource generator NPC spouse would need to have skills that would affect their ability to perform all of these actions/functions. 

The entire purpose of a resource generator NPC spouse would be to expand a players skills set, provide a companion in shared activities, and/or help reduce the tedium that can occur when surviving in URW (i.e. division of labor).   I can imagine scenarios where the resource generator NPC spouse...
  • prepares the soil, plants seeds, harvests crops, threshes for grain/seeds, grinds flour
  • skins a carcass, cleans the skin, tans furs and leather
  • butchers and smoke the meat or cooks any of the other food recipes
  • prepares logs, blocks of wood, boards, etc.
  • builds a wooden building or kota if the player outlines the walls and doors
  • follows a circuit of traps, or a trap fence, to collect the trapped animals, reset the traps
  • being sent out into a delineated geography and asked to harvest all the berries or herbs of a given type
  • wanders a geographical area to actively hunt
  • joins the player and sets traps in a designated place
  • joins the player on an active hunt
  • follows the player to a village to trade and carry items
  • etc.

I've said too much...

Option 1 would be easier and provide for "end game" objectives.
Option 2 would require the player to spend a great deal of time managing the NPC spouse.

8
General Discussion / Re: Question for Sami
« on: December 18, 2017, 11:01:35 PM »
I have a few comments on the marriage poll and incorporating marriage into URW.  Others can comment on the role-playing nature of an NPC spouse or the ability to have children and have a multi-generational URW experience.  But I am reducing the arguments to two options for incorporating a NPC spouse: 1) the Resource Drain NPC Spouse, or 2) the Resource Generator NPC Spouse.  These options might be considered over simplifications (they are mechanistically not mutually exclusive). 

Option 1: The Resource Drain
For this option, a NPC spouse becomes a drain on player resources.  First, the spouse must be wooed and courted with furs, tools, weapons, valuables, etc.  In this option, a significant expenditure of player time is given to attract and then obtain a spouse.  The "cost" of a spouse would then be proportional to the perceived "value" of that spouse.  In this scenario, the spouse becomes a status symbol for the player through their ability to attract the "best".  It could be even that the spouse gives the player increasingly difficult quests as they become more involved along the wooing path.  Maybe there are differences between an in-culture marriage versus an out-of-culture marriage?

Second, after a marriage ceremony, the spouse must be provided for.  In this option, the NPC spouse is a bystander that consumes the player's food, clothes, tools, and weapons (maybe also armor, cords, bandages, bowls, etc.).  The player must spend time ensuring the spouse is sufficiently provided for so they stay committed to the marriage and alive.  In this option, a NPC spouse likely functions like current NPC villagers.  They wander around a specific location or follow the player around, but have limited utility.

The entire purpose of a resource drain NPC spouse is to add a monumental achievement to the URW experience.  That is, the player can not only provide for them-self, but they can attract and maintain the NPC spouse as a status symbol.  The resource drain NPC spouse then would "unlock" PALU's generational feature...
It can also be noted that there are probably very few people who play their characters for 17+ years so that they could have had "adult" offspring. This means you could potentially start a family, but any children would be unlikely to be adult when your character expires, so if a generational feature would be introduced it would probably have to be able to skip a number of years, which would require some kind of logic to advance the world (which should include repopulating village animal stocks, at the least, and probably replace some of all those villagers who died fighting robbers with your ex character as well).

Option 2: The Resource Generator

For this option, a NPC spouse would need to function differently than other villager or companion NPCs.  The NPC spouse in this scenario would need to be a productive member to contribute to living in URW.  For example, the resource generator NPC spouse would need to actually engage in meaningful labor around a settlement or while on a hunt.  This means they would need to accept and execute commands that take advantage of skills.  A resource generator NPC spouse is likely more accurate (they help contribute to life), but much more difficult to develop.  This option could also lead to players gaming the system or to unexpected results (or danger to the NPC spouse) due to poorly issues commands and limitations of the AI. 

A wooing process would need to take place.  However, while a resource drain NPC spouse would be a status symbol, a resource generator NPC spouse would be valued to complement the player.  For example, if a player is unskilled in something, woo a resource generator NPC spouse to compensate so they can perform those skills for you.

Once the courtship is completed, the resource generator NPC spouse would need to be functionally helpful to a player.  For example, if a player provides the necessary items (tools, weapons, seeds, pots, cords, etc.) and key instructions (location of a field to prepare/tend, trap fence to monitor, materials to process, etc.), the resource generator NPC spouse could process through a que of instructions.  For example, a resource generating NPC spouse could contribute to agriculture, hideworking, fishing, food preparation (smoking, salting, drying meat or making flatbread, stews, grinding flour, etc.), hunting, building, monitoring a trap fence, checking traps, making clothes, tools, or weapons, etc..  A resource generator NPC spouse would need to have skills that would affect their ability to perform all of these actions/functions. 

The entire purpose of a resource generator NPC spouse would be to expand a players skills set, provide a companion in shared activities, and/or help reduce the tedium that can occur when surviving in URW (i.e. division of labor).   I can imagine scenarios where the resource generator NPC spouse...
  • prepares the soil, plants seeds, harvests crops, threshes for grain/seeds, grinds flour
  • skins a carcass, cleans the skin, tans furs and leather
  • butchers and smoke the meat or cooks any of the other food recipes
  • prepares logs, blocks of wood, boards, etc.
  • builds a wooden building or kota if the player outlines the walls and doors
  • follows a circuit of traps, or a trap fence, to collect the trapped animals, reset the traps
  • being sent out into a delineated geography and asked to harvest all the berries or herbs of a given type
  • wanders a geographical area to actively hunt
  • joins the player and sets traps in a designated place
  • joins the player on an active hunt
  • follows the player to a village to trade and carry items
  • etc.

I've said too much...

Option 1 would be easier and provide for "end game" objectives.
Option 2 would require the player to spend a great deal of time managing the NPC spouse. 

9
Suggestions / Re: Ability to Light Torches from other Torches
« on: December 17, 2017, 04:32:11 PM »
A mod for rendered fat/oil could be easily implemented, but I have no idea how to then use that for a fire/light source.

10
Suggestions / Re: Horn from bulls
« on: December 17, 2017, 04:30:06 PM »
Rams horns too.

11
Suggestions / AI Response to Killing Villagers
« on: December 04, 2017, 07:17:37 PM »
An interesting thread is going on in Gameplay Questions -> Psychic enemies (started by PoisonPen - http://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=945.0) .  It has to do with village NPC responses to a player who kills NPCs.  PoisonPen is arguing the game mechanic is broken because he can't snipe from safety (a mischaracterization of his post, but go read it and the responses). 

I'd recommend that the AI be adapted so the villagers behave somewhat rationally when a NPC villager is killed.  I recommend there be two phases of villager reaction when when a NPC villager is killed. 

First, if a player attacks, the village can gang-up on them as the AI currently has it.  However, if the NPC villager is killed, I recommend the villagers respond differently than by staying aggressive to eventually become breathless and easy to pick off one-by-one.  The villagers could respond to a death by:

  • The warriors, hunters, and adventurers remain the principle combatants in a village while the women, children, and shamen/sages and tradesmen/craftsmen are secondary defenders who wait until the warrior/class are engaged or eliminated before attempting to fight or assist. 
  • The villagers won't chase a person too far away from the village or other NPC villagers for support.
  • They flee to a fortified building that they decide to defend.  Maybe they can shut and bar a door so the player can't just open a door and walk in.  The player would then need to hack through the door and wade into a defended building.  This might open expanded building options for defensive structures in buildings (barred door, closable shutters, defensive fences or walls in some villages. 
  • Villagers could try to smoke out or burn down a building where a NPC killing player is hiding.  (EDIT: taptap's idea)
  • If an attacked village is near another village (and especially if connected by roads), consider reinforcements and more fighting NPC arriving after an appropriate time.

Second, there needs to be longer-term consequences for killing NPC villagers. 
  • Maybe the non-combatant villagers flee to surrounding world tiles/villages once a NPC is killed.  The fleeing NPCs could warn others and prompt a lowering of the player's reputation in a given culture.  This might allow the player to loot a village, but the remaining culture would then be hostile to the player.  Maybe a player's worsening reputation, after repeated NPC killing would spill over to neighboring cultures.  Eventually, the NPC killing player would find no safe refuge.
  • This might be a challenge, and might need balance issues, but consider having roving bands of NPCs that would pose a threat for a village-killing player.  For example, if a player gains a hostile reputation from killing many NPCs from a culture (or from non-affiliated forresters), maybe that culture sends hunting parties after them.  These hunting parties wouldn't spawn unless a player's reputation got bad enough from killing NPCs in villages.  This hunting party would be like roving bands of foreign traders but from the revenge-seeking culture.  These hunting parties would be armed and armored and maybe they bring some dogs too.  Then, if the player has a hostile reputation (from killing NPC villagers), the hunting party would become aggressive and attempt to fight the player or raid the payer's settlement (take gear and equipment, burn down buildings, take livestock).

I believe a player's behavior and attitude about killing villager NPCs would change if there were more risk to it.  Players wouldn't be able to have a "safe" area if they might encounter roving bands of warriors/hunters/adventurers who are tracking them down.  I also imagine that in real life, if a rogue hermit was wandering into Iron-age villages and killing everyone, the word would have gotten out and a coalition of villages might send a party for vengeance. 

12
Gameplay questions / Re: Psychic enemies
« on: December 04, 2017, 06:59:03 PM »
I also agree with taptap and Palu.  The fundamental issue is how the current AI and system allows a single character to walk into a village and wipe out everyone with seeming few repercussions. 

The AI governing villager behavior can be exploited when attacking a village (and got incredibly boring after a while to be honest) and has some gaps.  While a player can hole-up in a defensible building, the villagers run around with nothing to attack and get exhausted.  If a player can last long enough, attacking a village is easy to game because all the remaining villagers are breathless and queuing up to get killed.  I like the idea of villagers calming down and not loosing their minds when attacked.  As Palu recommended, you can also drag an aggressive villager (or villagers) far from their home and kill them one at a time once they've become breathless. 

I decided to put the rest of my thoughts on this topic in the Suggestions forum. 

13
Gameplay questions / Re: Psychic enemies
« on: December 04, 2017, 04:32:33 PM »
If you're slower than the fastest enemy, there's simply no way to win.  And that is terrible game design.

I disagree.  If you've never had the experience, I'd recommend you go check out a HEMA club (https://www.hemaalliance.com/) if you have one near.  You can't avoid getting hit in real combat.  Even a skilled person will get hit if the opponent is willing to take a blow.  The strongest/fastest person does tend to indeed beat on the slower/weaker ones.  That is not always the case, as technique can compensate for some of that.  But if you have a trained fighter who is stronger and faster than you, you're at a substantial disadvantage.  That disadvantage is compounded if you're fighting multiple opponents.  It is true that the first person to be seriously wounded will loose.  That is closer to real life than the ability to shrug off a wound and keep fighting. 

To address the original post, you can't be in a hurry to clear a village if you're going to snipe away using a bow.  You need to give it days to pick off a few opponents, let the village calm down, and then repeat.  I've had the same experience if I try to rush it.  I've been most successful using a bow and no/light armor by luring one or two villagers into a pine mire, and taking them out quickly, running away, then leaving for a few days before I do it again. 

I've also had the recent experience to eradicate the Njerpez off the map (see Orja story in the stories sub-forum).  I layered on all the armor I could knowing that I'd be hit and I still received wounds.  My character snuck or fought their way into a village building or protected space in a pine mire so that only one or two enemies could get to me at once.  Then I was able to clear the village.

I believe the "flaws" you identify make the game more realistic and give more serious consequences to actions than a hack and slash game. 

14
General Discussion / Re: Lifetimers and Supporting URW/Enormous Elk
« on: December 03, 2017, 10:53:18 PM »

Lifetime licenses haven't been actively promoted for quite some time, because co-existence with Steam<>donation-based got confusing enough. But if somebody wants it, I don't stop people from grand donations, and can set up new lifetime members.

And...
http://www.unrealworld.fi/urw_donation-based.html Donation-based URW link to official.

 There used to be a $35.00 USD donation limit to achieve Lifetime supporter (access), either one time or total of donations, in support of the game, it's continued development and of course the developer.

This has been really helpful.  For one more point of clarification, the link Privateer gave said that Lifetime Membership was put on pause in 2016 but Sami seems open to it on a case-by-case basis.  Is there still a suggested financial bar for new lifetime members ($35 mentioned by privateer)?

15
General Discussion / Lifetimers and Supporting URW/Enormous Elk
« on: December 03, 2017, 03:39:34 PM »
In the Dec. 3 Development News, Sami mentioned Lifetimers and their early access to the 3.5 beta.  I've also seen some of the forum posters with their "Honorary Lifetime Supporter Member" badges.

Does this relate to the purchase of a lifetime license?  Are those still available? 

I encountered URW through Steam and can't see where to purchase a lifetime license.  I also can't see this on the URW website.  I do see the donation link, but there is no mention of a perpetual license or access to the beta releases.  Can anyone shed some light on this?  Thanks!

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