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Messages - Petike

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Petike- It is possible that some of the information here is now outdated. Later updates have restricted the unlimited desire of the villagers for things like boards and traps. These days you may well find the villagers are no longer interested in trading for boards after a couple of loads, and likewise, pawboard traps.

I've never traded a lot of bowls so I can't say if those, too, have a low limit.

Yes, I know some of the value of goods (or NPC's' need for them) has been nerfed in more recent releases. I'll just have to try and see. I think varying up the types of goods I have on offer, especially handcrafted ones or more valuable foods, could help make this less of an issue, even if board-bartering has been nerfed to the point of locals rejecting boards for a while, before things "cool down" and they start accepting them again in a later trade.

Here's how you grind my way

Thank you. I certainly don't plan to outright grind, but trading boards seems to be one of the better ways of acquiring more expensive goods.

Just to make it clear what I'm aiming for with my current character: I don't want the character to be incredibly wealthy with all manner of goods, I just largely want to buy the clothes, tools and utilities that he still lacks, but would come in very handy in the short term.

What happens in the long term is still an open question. My current major goal is waiting for the year's harvest, then surviving the character's first winter. In the meantime, I am still working on the housing infrastructure, trading goods and building up supplies.

Interestingly enough, this is the first character I've started off in spring, while the conditions were still very cold, the lakes froze, etc., and the first time I've tried the agriculture scenario. Though living close to a village and a lake at the same time has helped a lot with the whole endeavour, things have gone surprisingly smoothly this time. It's also because I'm getting better at the game in general, but also because this scenario offers me a lot of different possibilities. Things were made somewhat easier by receiving a fishing rod and a handaxe for free from the game course, or having some of my latest trades actually take place after I fulfilled an easy quest for the locals (gather stones for sauna repairs).

One way to get decent supply of cord for new characters is to build light lever traps. 10 or so in the area where your shelter is.

FWIW: I always start in spring, even with the change of spring having still a deep snow. Just be sure to make withes of some saplings. One might get lucky and kill a deer or moose, then get the meat to dry, as backup food, should last to late summer, by that time should have steady supply of smoked meat and fish as daily nutrition

So the first few days is getting some fish to stay alive, build some traps, fish more, check traps. Make some boards or bowls for trade, javelins for trade or use. Repeat.
Checking those traps will yield decent amount of bird leather, once tanned, make them into bandages if they’re below decent. Then cut a cord of each bandage.
You can also micromanage those 1/2 bandages to even lighter, with meticulous use of tanned bird hide, and then a half bandage to make a cord. Bandage at full weight or 0.05lbs has same wound treating ability...

Trapping birds with light lever traps has the extra benefit of giving great supply of feathers for fletching arrows both for use and trade! (Carpentry is the skill that pays massive dividends here, aim for 50+)

Thank you, this is valuable advice as well. :)

I tend to always invest a fair bit of points into carpentry, it does indeed help a lot.

I know what some URW veterans might think: "You should hunt or trap animals on a more regular basis, and then it will be easier to trade for more expensive items. Especially if you also tan skins and hides into useful fur or leather items."

Of course, I know this, and I use this approach as well. However, none of my characters to date were huge hunters or trappers, even with all the traps I've prepared and the animals I've hunted and caught. It also needs to be said that many of my characters have the bad luck of rarely getting adequate hunting weapons at the start, aside from tools like hunting knives. It might sound embarassing, but most of my successful ranged hunting to date involved throwing rocks and javelins. I almost never have enough rope or tying material to make myself a bow, nevermind even home-made arrows. Often, rope or any tying material is hard to come by in trade, and if I need any cord, I'm not going to destroy the few good clothes my character owns, for little return. For example, my current character only has a shirt, trousers, and footwear. I only recently made him a decent fur cap from the smaller animals I caught, and stored it at the cellar of his homestead, since winter is still far away.

Therefore, since I still need most of the leather-related resources for my character (at least earlier into the game, while I am still building up my supplies of warm clothes for the winter, and so on), I usually can't spare leather to make rope or cord, and I also can't sell my leather and fur products for profit. This is where my character's (and characters') woodworking skills come in handy.

Unfortunately, even if I craft entire piles of decent to excellent quality wooden bowls and put them aside (I tend to use the rougher quality ones for myself and burn the bad ones that I made while my skills were lower), I know it takes quite a while until I have enough of them to buy anything from locals. Having an extra amount of freshly caught and prepared fish helps as well. But some items, such as better hunting weapons, or just plentiful enough supply of tying materials, always seem completely off-limits to me. The character I'm currently playing found a very nice crossbow at the village he lives next to (even sharing the field with the locals, since he's partly a farmer) and I'd like to "save up" to eventually buy it for his needs. Aside from me being fond of crossbows in real life, they have decent stats as ranged hunting weapon, even if they are expensive and rare. Since I doubt I'll find another crossbow in an eastern culture village anytime soon, I'm hatching this scheme of manufacturing as many goods as I can (relatively on the cheap, but with good quality) and then trying to barter with locals until they accept my payment.

Is this a bit of a silly approach, or is it a good enough way to buy some basic tools and weapons in the early days, before the player character is comfortably supplied for all of the year's seasons ?

I know boards, stakes, paw-boards, bowls and fish only garner a certain amount of interest. Every villager seems to be more interested in taking all of my meagre but invaluable tools and clothes in "fair exchange" for the cheapest of items they offer. But is it possible to use large quantities of simple goods to barter adequately for pricier items ?


Just a minor suggestion: Could the individual cultures have simple, stylised emblems that player characters could use to tell them apart quickly ?

I think the fact that the game portrays the cultures in a more anonymous way at the moment, largely through their lifestyles and the tools they use, is actually better for immersion purposes.

Furthermore, given that this is a late Iron Age civilization, with more scattered populations, no real towns, no cities whatsoever, no stone structures and institutions yet, no nobility or peasants/serfs, etc., that it is good the individual cultures do not have any flags or coats of arms or more standardized symbols. Again, it's better for verisimilitude and immersion.

All the above said, I still think it could be beneficial for gameplay purposes if a few menus occassionally featured a simple, stylized emblem that would represent one of the 9 (10 ?) cultures. For example, the northern tribes would have a silhouette/outline of their totemic animal, from which they derive their monikers. The other cultures could have simple emblems that would reflect their typical economic and cultural strengths, and so on. Due to the more primordial feel of the setting, I think the background texture of these emblems could imply they are painted onto or burnt onto a decorative piece of leather, or painted on a smooth enough piece of bark (specifically, the inner side of the bark).

Why would emblems be needed ? Because, as much as I like that more anonymous approach, sometimes I wish I could just look at a conversation screen and see that the other character has more than just a boring text description there, saying they are from this or that culture. Ergo, I would find it nice if they also had a little emblem representing what culture they are from, situated in some empty part of the conversation screen.

I think a game mechanic that should stay in place is that an unknown individual or unknown village would not have its corresponding culture's emblem shown to the player until he or she met with them, they introduced each other, and gained at least some basic familiarity. Then it would appear somewhere in the corner when talking with an individual. It would also not appear in the player character menu, other than the player overview screen, showing the stats. The fact that the characters already have "surnames" based on which culture their character belongs to is more than enough during usual gameplay.

Finally, I feel that different simple emblems could give the cultures further distinct personalities, beyond what in-game behaviour patterns they use while creating their settlements, or hunting or trading, etc.

Just a thought. :)

Suggestions / Re: Hillforts and tribal protected areas
« on: October 11, 2020, 09:58:03 PM »
You could also have occassional fortified settlements in marshy areas and on lakes. Either on a small artificial island or a larger natural island. Lowland fortified settlements did occur in prehistory and antiquity, though hill forts at elevated locations were generally more popular. I think the obvious fortification-heavy culture would be the Driik, but a few of the other sedentary cultures with larger settlements could build simpler defensive palisades and so on.

I tend to occassionally build improvised hillforts of a sort, if I have a homestead (a log cabin and all the accessories) built on a hill top. I craft a lot of wooden stakes and then build a series of fences. Not much defence against intruders, certainly less so than a palisade, but it is easier to defend your home if you build several defensive rings of wooden fences. :D

General Discussion / Re: Wiki down
« on: April 24, 2019, 11:02:45 PM »
I've noticed this as well. Might be just a server hiccup, the usual.

I don't have reference books at hand, but based on my memory: a whistling arrow works with aquatic birds, when the flock is flying above a body of water. The arrow is shot so that it flies above the flock of birds - they hear the whistling sound above them, take it as a sign of danger, and seek cover by diving into the water below them. Then the hunter readies ordinary hunting arrows, waits for the birds to surface one after one, trying to hit them the very moment when they surface - that often is the moment when they don't move for a second, and we all know that hitting a stationary target is far more easier than trying to down a flying bird.

Yes, that's what I meant. It's all about tricking the birds to land temporarily, making them an easier target to hit (even with conventional arrows) than if they were in flight.

Why would whistling arrows force waterfowl to land?  ???
When a loud noise scares birds, don't they all immediately fly off in a huge flock?

Good point, that would be my first thought as well. However, it is a bit case dependent. All the more that in the real world, these types of arrow can come in several arrowhead configurations, producing different sounds depending on the design.

As Sami explains in the video, the particular design of whistling arrowhead he's demonstrating creates a sound that is reminescent of a falcon or other bird of prey's cry or chirp. Birds hunted by these species often have a tendency to seek cover if they hear these sounds. I suppose it's because many small bird of prey species, falcons included, are notoriously fast flyers. It might be a better survival strategy to ground yourself and hide, rather than trying to outfly them. (Waterfowl are still a bit more nimble while on land, than virtually all bird of prey.)

Given that the particular Siberian ethnicity that used these was apparently quite successful in using whistling arrows in ambush hunting strategies, I suppose the trick works. Yes, it does sound counterintuitive at first hearing, but there was probably something to it if it remained a popular bit of hunting equipment for so many centuries.

I'm not the final word on modding, but making anything produce a noise with that effect on birds does not seem possible, Petike.

Just to clarify: I didn't mean the whistling arrow's sound propagation would be tied to the area of effect. Instead, the arrow would directly project the area of effect, as an item in movement. Seems far simpler to code the outcome to the arrow itself, rather than to its sound effect.

If it's not possible to assign an action/effect like that to an arrow even in that simpler manner, then I suppose a functional whistling arrow addon will remain a pipe dream for now.

I've read quite a few articles about whistling arrows already years back, when I was reading about historical archery, including the various forms of hunting archery in different cultures around the world. Having recently watched Sami's video from his separate archery channel - on making and testing a Siberian-style whistling arrow - the idea immediately struck me. This could be a potential addon, official or by the modders, for the game. Specialised for waterfowl hunting. Not useful as an actual hunting projectile, but shot as an initial decoy to scare the birds into landing, thus becoming easier targets for conventional arrows.

* * *

On the off-chance someone tries to develop whistling arrows as a mod/addon idea:

I think they wouldn't be too sophisticated to necessitate being a barter item. Unlike broadheads, they don't need a metal arrowhead, so the player should be able to craft them, much like the standard arrows (with lithic arrowheads) or the blunt arrows. In fact, I see the hypothetical in-game whistling arrows as something of a cousin to the blunt arrows - fulfilling a more specialised role in ranged hunting. Blunts don't damage the outside of small prey and birds that much, or just knock them unconscious, while whistling arrows are an indirect tactical utensil.

I could imagine the hollow wooden arrowhead with the openings being manufactured from a block of wood (given the size, maybe a single block could yield material for even 2 or 3 whistling arrowheads). Crafting-wise, the player would have to:
1.) carve out or split the raw version of the arrowhead from a block of wood
2.) split the arrowhead (or several, depending on the yield) with a knife or handaxe
3.) hollow out the halves of the arrowhead(s) with the use of a carving knife while next to a burning fire (either a campfire or a fire in the stove)
4.) put the pieces together with tying material or whatever is already used for gluing purposes

The remaining part of the whistling arrow (shaft, fletching, arrowhead attachment, etc.) would be crafted in the same manner as the standard (lithic) arrows, and the blunt arrows.

While hunting, the whistling arrow's flight over a particular area could generate some sort of trigger in that location, causing any bird in a particular radius to stop flying and land on the ground or a water surface. This would be especially effective with waterfowl, marginally or occassionally effective with the various grouse species, and completely ineffective with predatory birds.

I suppose some secondary uses (besides the primary one, waterfowl hunting) could include:
- startling a land animal (e.g. scaring away a predator without fighting it)
- startling a human adversary NPC at a distance (possibly as a temporary distraction)
- a signal for any human companion NPCs (rallying signal, warning signal, attack signal, etc.)

* * *

Concerning a historical realism perspective, I honestly don't know if there is any surviving material evidence of whistling arrows from Scandinavia from the pre-gunpowder era. I know a general problem in Finnish archaeology is that a lot of the soils in Finland are not too conductive to artefact preservation. Wood is an obvious material that can easily rot away and decompose over the course of several years, decades and particularly centuries. So it wouldn't be any wonder if no traditional Finnish hunting arrows from antiquity or the early Middle Ages survive today. Whistling arrows included.

It might be a stretch introducing them into the game, but you have the excuse of their usage among the wider group of Finno-Ugric language nationalities. Then there's the fact the game has the rare hand-and-a-half swords as a minor permitted anachronism. Personally, I think whistling arrows wouldn't be too weird in the existing setting.  ;)

General Discussion / A Christmas present to the community by me
« on: December 20, 2018, 07:50:56 PM »
Sorry if the title sounds a little grandiose. ;D

Since late November, I've been updating the official wiki, on and off.

Mostly just adding categories and structure to the whole thing (though a lot of it was good to begin with, so I had my work cut out for me, in a sense), occassionally uploading some new images for the still missing ones in articles (there are still many), expanding several articles with more detailed information and improved formatting (sections with headings, instead of unbroken paragraphs), and occassionally creating a few new articles (I did one on NPC conversations, a few short ones on terrain types (this I still want to extend), and one article on the types of "pets" the player receives at the start when they select the last starting scenario). Images are now neatly sorted into their own subcategories within an image category, so you'll be able to make sense of the images uploaded to the wiki much, much more easily than before. There's a Healing and medicine subcategory in the equally new Gameplay category, and so on and so forth.

Hope you like the category work in particular. I tried to be as rigorous and logical as possible while expanding upon the already existing categories and adding new ones. Hopefully you'll find the additions useful and quick to work with (making it easier to find inter-related stuff quickly on the wiki). I'm still working on improving some articles or finishing a few of the newer ones, but much of the planned work is done by this point.

Feedback is very welcome !

And if anyone wants to help the visual side of the wiki by providing screenshots of still missing content from the latest release of the game, that would be very welcome. For certain objects and concepts, we still only have images from pre-3.30 versions, and even though those have their historical value, we also need more up-to-date images (3.52 and higher).

As Christmas is nearly here, I'd like to wish everyone a peaceful, healthy and relaxing holiday season. :)

Suggestions / Re: Craftable punts ? And what should the limitations be ?
« on: December 13, 2018, 06:33:03 AM »
I've been thinking of multi-steps for what Erkka posted which is close to the dugout recipe in memory. As Novrus has a birch bark one I've not been too mindful of writing the code and testing it right now. Borrowing from my block tubs the concept is


Plus you would need to make a paddle (already in game)

Nice ideas ! I like the multiple-steps nature of the process.

Gameplay questions / Re: Best way to preserve berries long-term ?
« on: December 09, 2018, 12:58:20 AM »
Hi! :)

They will spoil in a cellar as well, yes, however, it will be at a slower pace. However, they will rot fairly quick and won't last you through a winter. You can however look through the mods forum, for various food mods. Some will give you the ability to dry berries, which have a longer spoilage period.

I see. It's a real pity the base game doesn't already have more food preservation methods. I thought drying could potentially work, but I've never seen anyone mention that method outside of meaty food sources. One of those things that feels like an oversight in the game. Drying at least some of the fruit and plants for the inhospitable season, as backup supplies, should be an option.

Gameplay questions / Best way to preserve berries long-term ?
« on: December 06, 2018, 05:14:23 PM »
What's the best method of preserving berries for a long time, e.g. the autumn and winter until spring, other than just chucking them inside a cellar ? Can berries start to spoil or rot in a cellar ?

Thank you kindly for any and all advice.

Development News / Re: Life hurts
« on: December 05, 2018, 08:15:33 AM »
I've just learnt of this. Sorry to hear about the injury, but I second the others in wishing you a swift and problem-free recovery.  Get well soon ! :)

Suggestions / Re: Snowshoes
« on: December 05, 2018, 05:36:46 AM »
As someone's who made attempts to manufacture snowshoes at home, in the most traditional way possible, I'm also willing to speak up for snowshoes. Though we might need to look into potential historical accuracy issues (I know URW isn't historical, but it is Finnish-inspired), I think snowshoes would be a wonderful addition to the skis.

The ancient Finns are likely to have used a sort of a swampshoe to walk on swampy ground, and this type could be used as a snowshoe as well. You can find a picture of a swampshoe and swampskis here - as you can see the swampshoe bears strong resemblance to the "bearpaw" type of snowshoe, but would carry less weight, being more open design to avoid getting stuck in a swamp. The gap between a swampshoe and a proper snowshoe looks like it's quite short, but it does seem that the type of snowshoe that developed in North America was never really developed in Europe. But it would not be completely anachronistic.

Very interesting, thank you ! Especially for the link.

Looking a bit further back than the Iron Age, at the European Neolithic, we also have some evidence of "ice-shoe" footwear accessories, created as a means to prevent skidding while walking on icy or frozen-over surfaces.

One such type, a sort of detachable outer cover for the simple straw-filled shoes underneath, was found among the equipment and clothing that belonged to "Ötzi", the remains of the famous Chalcolithic era man found in the Alps back in the early 1990s. You can have a look here, I've put a timestamp on the spot where his clothing and footwear is discussed. (A thing that amused me was that his outermost layer of clothing was a cloak made of grass. Reminded me immediately of the cloaks made from nettle fibers we have in URW. :D)

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