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Re: Buff up the elks, add swimming and jumping over fences
What's the point of a trap fence if it doesn't guide the animals into the traps, but guides them into holes where there's a trap only the reindeer in the center of a tight formation wouldn't avoid? The same goes for trap lines.

You can make the argument that only pit traps (that can't be constructed on rocky or soggy terrain) are large enough to fill the 2 meter wide "hole" in between adjacent thingies, but it makes little sense for a trap fence where the fence can just automagically extend to fill the empty space,
I wasn't actually thinking nor talking about fences. Naturally it is as you say with fences.

(Though I think using fence with anything else than pits is unhistorical. There's bait + trap OR fence guiding into a pit trap or loop snare. Yes, loop snares are used without a bait. A little wall of twigs, hardly a fence though, so the birdie tries to walk through an opening in it.)
EDIT: This sounds too unflexible. See JPs comment below, it complements this well.

But in game I'm not so purist. I do use other traps in my fences too. But not to get ungulates but other animals.

and it would be rather arbitrary to say that you can't make a trap line of anything but pit traps because the the game happens to use 2 meter wide tiles and only allows you to place one trap on each tile, so you can't actually close the gaps without leaving most of the line as free space.
It would not make any sense in real life. And since I'm the role-playing type, I think using traps in long lines is exploitish and gamey. But that's just not my cup of cranberry juice. Of course people are free to play as they like.

Your bait argument indicates you're in favor of making any traps but pit traps useless unless baited (with traps placed on berry bushes being baited implicitly), and that would hold for trap lines as well as free standing traps (I agree I see no reason for an animal to enter a free standing trap unless it's baited, though).
No I'm not. The "drawn by the bait"-comment was a sidenote referring to real life traps, not changes I would make in Urw.

From realism and game immersion perspective:
My main argument was and is that deer-folk shouldn't be putting their heads and knees in tight places when they have no reason to. They can walk, jump or tatami roll over them or treat them as obstacles, idc that much. I just happen to still think they shouldn't trigger or be harmed by deadfall traps, of any size. Because of body dynamics and height. Reindeer are taller than wolves and on average taller than bears too. Elks couldn't possibly enter deadfall traps. Elk shoulder height is twice the height of the real life bear deadfall trap we have here in the museum.



EDIT: After finding this picture, make that elk shoulder height three times that trap. Reindeer shoulder height twice the height of the trap. Any sized reindeer would bolt over that thing in a second without a second thought. Of course I'm not saying this is the only model but close enough and understandably what I'm thinking of. Btw there's other Urw traps featured in the outside museum, welcome to the museum!  :)

EDIT: (while I'm still ruminating over this) I do believe irl it is possible for all these animals to get stuck somehow in weird human contraptions, it happens. But very, very rarely. I once found a mummified reindeer calf hanging in midair, stuck in wire fence. So sad :'( Actually the best thing in-game would be that deadfalls are almost never triggered by ungögögs, but that once in a urw characters lifetime they'd find a freakin' bull elk stuck in a bear trap by its antlers.

On game balance perspective:
I won't even get into this. It's even more needed to cut the possibilities to catch easy meat. (Though this little realism tweak doesn't really affect difficulty that much.)

Here I enclosed the leader of a group of reindeer. The others keep coming to him. I could chase them to breathless at my leisure.
Spoiler: I rest my case • show


I'm providing a save where I enclosed the whole herd in similar fashion, just in case someone wants to play around with it:


November 11, 2020, 06:22:03 PM
1
Imminent death warnings Rip Asllat. He had just completed his sauna and wanted to learn to swin (0%). Although I know how swimming skill works and should've been more careful, he drowned in just a few turns before I realized he was in danger. Oh the irony ;D

Another, a close call, was during winter when it was cold below game thermometer. Ásllat was sweating, wearing all fur he could make (of elk and reindeer), so I really didn't expect him to be freezing to death while taking a little stroll (<40 meters) outside his kota fire.

Both of these were numb-brained player mistakes. I wasn't paying attention / expecting so sudden danger.

I'm not all too bothered myself, but I do think that because of permadeath (written in icy characters, muahhahah) people can lose a hard-worked-for character a bit too easily. I've actually killed characters off by quitting and not saving when trying to quaff (make hole in the ice? 'yes', then drink) with rapid keypresses and some late-night carelessness and fumbling: Boom! Gone.

So I suggest:

- freezing to death to actually blink continuously when it's on - isn't so disturbing because rarely is 'on' at least for long  :D
- have warning sound effect/pause when freezing (shivering female/male voice would fit here nicely)
- have warning sound effect/pause when freezing to death (intense shivering female/male voice would fit here nicely)
- have sound effect/pause when danger of drowning (gurgling female/male voice would fit here nicely)
- 'q' is a bit too often used a command for both drinking and 'Q'uitting, imho. I use 'Esc' anyways to leave game so I rarely even 'Q'uit.

Maybe have them toggleable in the ini-file

November 13, 2020, 11:47:52 AM
4
Re: Small scale primitive smoker Taking development time into account,

why not just allow smoking in kota insides and doorways (because there is no inside in the smallest one)

or, better yet, allow smoking/drying in all kota squares and make the walls accessible by crawling. I could see crawling under kota walls useful in other situations too.

With possibly the requirement (when smoking) to have a complete kota. (then it can take more time than the cabin, though)

November 13, 2020, 03:45:42 PM
2
Add Roe deer doe / Roe buck I was going to postpone this until later, but seeing that the elk thread is hot lukewarm I thought this might bring something to that discussion too.

Also yes I anticipate some point out that roe deer is a recent comer (1900s) to Finland but they have just become extinct earlier. After a quick search, Swedish wikipedia says they "returned 8000 years ago to Skandinavia" and Finnish that there's some speculation of it being native based on some old place names. Anyway, being the realism-nerd that I am, on historical perspective, I'd still be happy about them being featured .

What roe deer would bring to the game?
- variety (yea!)
- ungulate with less meat (yea!) (Finally the clichée idea of a hunter carrying a deer carcass back to camp  ;D)
- there is lack for medium sized food game - between a rabbit/capercaillie and a sow/reindeer. Ickyucky predators don't count.  :P
- AI could be like that of reindeer, though less aggessive
- would exist most commonly/mostly in South / river areas
- variety (yea!)

You've been ranting about too much easy meat. What about game difficulty?
- timidness = escape likelihood and distance
- elks and reindeer could be made more timid and less common - at least in some regions
- roe deer would be as timid than their bigger cousins are currently
- roe deer could be more abundant but less easily spotted on overland map
- being lighter and very small feet: less easily tracked
- smaller targets!
- forest reindeers could be made less common in extreme south / and not exist in archipelago

Additional ideas
- what if they could spontaneously die if too harsh a winter? (We have them sometimes here in north of Finland, spreading from warmer areas in North of Norway (even more north but warmer because of the ocean). But they tend to die off during winters - because of too much snow.)

November 15, 2020, 11:14:24 AM
2
Re-triggering command for loop snares and paw-boards too Please  :)

Obviously they don't have to be previously triggered, only requirement being exactly one trap item lying on nearby tile.

November 22, 2020, 04:26:23 PM
1
Re: Buff up the elks, add swimming and jumping over fences Idk how many readers are familiar with struggling in deep snow, but here's one more example of the power of the elk (they call it moose, same thing).

The display of power starts about 1:30 into the video. Enjoy.

https://cottagelife.com/outdoors/watch-a-moose-gallop-through-waist-deep-snow-like-its-thin-air

November 26, 2020, 12:20:03 PM
1
[3.63] EXPLOIT: anything inside birch-bark containers can be used in tanning I was about to tan a soaked elk skin with newly obtained bark. But I mistakenly chose birch-bark box of 'coarse grains' instead and, to my surprise, worked as tanning material. I had to fill the now-empty box and try it again to make sure. By not starting tanning but pressing escape during the pause when all conditions are met. Consequently, the birch-bark box, which was emptied when selected for tanning, did not refill when canceling. I repeat: I did not start the process.

Rye flour (made into sour mixture) can be used for tanning IRL, so initially I thought there was some purpose to all this.

But then, another thing was that I had a bag full of these same grains. That bag of coarse grains could not be selected for tanning.

So now I suspect it was the "birch-bark box of ..." that allowed the grains to be chosen in the first place. I have to test this with putting, say, dried meat inside a birch-bark container and try tanning with that.

I shouldn't even be reporting this, because now I want to use rye flour in this fashion in the future...

EDIT: Confirmed. I just tanned a bear skin with 2.1 lbs of awful dried elk cut from a birch-bark basket. Pretty sour stuff :o
EDIT: And I see birch-bark strip works too, even though the proper (reddish brown, used in tanning) bark was left on the birch... The white papery stuff shouldn't tan anything. This is a language problem, actually. Since in Finnish (for example) the outer bark (white stuff) is called tuohi and the inner bark (brown stuff) is called parkki.


November 26, 2020, 04:14:50 PM
4
Re: [3.63] EXPLOIT: birch-bark containers can be used in tanning Now complete with an educative picture for your viewing enjoyment. That Elfshot blog behind the picture link might be worth investigating. Primitive tech stuff.
November 26, 2020, 09:39:58 PM
1
HITCHCOCK BIRDS aka allow automatically ignoring birds during tasks We all know that feeling when eager to get something done and... you see a bird.

And another...

And yet another...

On fourth bird you remember a certain cult classic horror movie...


Settings in the urw_ini.txt allow to automatically ignore animals/humans.

Please add a separate row for only birds, as automatically ignoring all animals isn't very useful.

Spoiler: from urw_ini.txt • show
// Tasks will be always aborted when you get hit or injured. In addition, these settings
// are used to prompt an abort when new creatures enter your view or turn hostile on you.
// There are separate settings for humans and animals.
//
// NO    - never prompt to abort if these creatures enter your view
// YES    - always prompt to abort task if these creatures enter your view
// HOSTILE - prompt to abort only if this kind of hostile creatures enter your view
[TASK_ABORT_ANIMALS:YES]
[TASK_ABORT_HUMANS:HOSTILE]
[TASK_ABORT_BIRDS:NO]      <-----------------   something like this would be greeeeaatt!!

November 28, 2020, 08:03:55 PM
3
Re: [3.63] EXPLOIT: anything inside birch-bark containers can be used in tanning I've been pondering on how to gracefully solve this problem (?), considering that the game uses string analyzing for item recognition.

Birch-bark strips could be added 'outer', but that would still leave containers and in those 'outer' wouldn't be nice at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanbark

After reading above, I came to following conclusion:

Leave the birch-bark things as they are (modders rejoice!) and edit sheets of alder bark to **alder tanbark etc.

Hey, one could also obtain birch tanbark once the outer bark has been stripped!

Edit tanning to accept only *fat, *tanbark, (***flour, ****lard, ****tallow [for modders, why not?])

**(I lost sheets in the process, because it isn't necessary (or even good) to have them in one piece for tanning. And considering (future?) willows, rowans or any small trees from which the tanbark comes usually in small strips and pieces. Also please consider allowing scraping tanbark all year, albeit more slowly (but definitely not birch outer bark).

*** flour would really need to be made into sour mixture first, possibly with (sour) milk. But so should tanbark be boiled to extract tanning agents.

****https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendering_(animal_products)

November 29, 2020, 07:01:19 AM
1
anything