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UnReal World => Gameplay questions => Topic started by: jonottawa on February 09, 2020, 07:41:18 PM

Title: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on February 09, 2020, 07:41:18 PM
Hello, I'm fairly new to the game and I have a few questions.

Can pets freeze to death without getting wet? (Like on the coldest night of the year.)

If I hit an animal with a javelin and it runs away, will that javelin remain in the game forever or does it disappear when that animal is killed by another animal? Or can that animal just disappear?

I've had ravens steal my food before. I've encountered robbers who beat me within an inch of my life and took stuff from me. But other than that, I've never had someone take something I left behind (at least that I noticed.) So, aside from animals stealing food and robbers demanding that you hand over some stuff or else will someone take something you left on the map somewhere? Like, if I drop a few furs at a shelter, will they ALWAYS be there when I get back or is there some possibility that they'll disappear?

Can you get randomly murdered in your sleep? Like theoretically, a fox could kill you if he found you asleep at a shelter, no?

If you choose the boost stats reward for the tutorial, what is the specific bonus? I assume you can't boost a stat if the bar is full already (like if it's at maximum)?

Is there a crafting penalty depending on the time of day? Is there a crafting penalty based on how vigourous you're feeling? Is there a crafting penalty if you're cool or cold or if you're hot and sweaty? Is there a crafting penalty based on your nutrition level (assuming you're not starving)? Or is the crafting outcome purely based on your skills, whatever penalty is displayed, and RNG? For example, if I'm tanning a skin and it says that I failed to maintain the quality of the skin, does it give me a better chance if I tan the skin as soon as I wake up, fill my stomach and drink?

Is there any disadvantage to being Hot and Sweaty? Is there any disadvantage to being Cool? Or do all disadvantages happen when you're either Cold or colder than that?

Answers to any of the above would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Privateer on February 09, 2020, 08:52:15 PM
Hello, I'm fairly new to the game and I have a few questions.

Can pets freeze to death without getting wet? (Like on the coldest night of the year.)
No

If I hit an animal with a javelin and it runs away, will that javelin remain in the game forever or does it disappear when that animal is killed by another animal? Or can that animal just disappear?
The animal will continue to carry the weapon till it dies. Animals can eventually de-spawn.

I've had ravens steal my food before. I've encountered robbers who beat me within an inch of my life and took stuff from me. But other than that, I've never had someone take something I left behind (at least that I noticed.) So, aside from aesnimals stealing food and robbers demanding that you hand over some stuff or else will someone take something you left on the map somewhere? Like, if I drop a few furs at a shelter, will they ALWAYS be there when I get back or is there some possibility that they'll disappear?
The answer used to be yes, now as npc's are evolving, they may pick up random items in the world eg: treasure troves.
I believe the vast majority of your items / stacks /stashes are still safe.

Can you get randomly murdered in your sleep? Like theoretically, a fox could kill you if he found you asleep at a shelter, no?
Sheep are passive, but if you anger them it is possible. I've been gored to death by a cow.

If you choose the boost stats reward for the tutorial, what is the specific bonus? I assume you can't boost a stat if the bar is full already (like if it's at maximum)?
I don't know.

Is there a crafting penalty depending on the time of day? Is there a crafting penalty based on how vigourous you're feeling? Is there a crafting penalty if you're cool or cold or if you're hot and sweaty? Is there a crafting penalty based on your nutrition level (assuming you're not starving)? Or is the crafting outcome purely based on your skills, whatever penalty is displayed, and RNG? For example, if I'm tanning a skin and it says that I failed to maintain the quality of the skin, does it give me a better chance if I tan the skin as soon as I wake up, fill my stomach and drink?
Tasks are set when you initiate them, they do not 'sample' your penalty as the task runs to adjust to final product.
"crafting outcome purely based on your skills, whatever penalty is displayed, and RNG?" Is a valid view.

Is there any disadvantage to being Hot and Sweaty? Is there any disadvantage to being Cool? Or do all disadvantages happen when you're either Cold or colder than that?
Only cold need be monitored, at this time hot sweaty etc. have no negative impact.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: PALU on February 09, 2020, 10:25:20 PM
I doubt a fox could kill you in your sleep, as that would mean an initial attack that was fatal (or at least rendered your unconscious), since anything else would wake you up. A large predator might be able to, as might a human (robber or njerp).
Note that many animals prefer to flee when possible, with only the large predators being persistent without provocation.

Robbers and njerps have been picking up weapons for a fair while.

Stat rewards boost your stats, which may not be directly visible, but you can e.g. move faster even if the displayed numbers differ (I have seen them change), resist fainting better, see further, etc, fumble less often, trip less often, etc.
I assume you can't increase ones already at the maximum.

As mentioned, crafting is dependent on the skill, penalties, tools, and RNG. Tiredness is different from fatigue, and may cause you to be disallowed to begin some tasks and break off tasks that can be resumed partway through, but other tasks will continue to completion unless you abort them (sometimes resulting in the character falling asleep immediately when it completes). Available light does not have any effect currently. Starvation and injuries give penalties as displayed.

Getting cold can cause you to eventually get hypothermia and die unless you have means to warm up (and it's possible to die while trying to light a fire with failure after failure...). Long tasks can have you getting colder and colder, with the game giving you warnings to allow you to cancel the tasks.
As mentioned, heat stroke isn't implemented (nor is heat retention from jumping into ice cold water directly from a sauna: it works fine in real life, but not in UrW: you'll immediately gets freezing cold).
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on February 09, 2020, 11:27:04 PM
Thanks for answering my questions! Here are some more:

Is there something better than a masterwork club and a table to turn rinsed skin into fur with? Either in speed or in result? Is a tree trunk and a stone just as effective as anything else?

If it's pitch black outside, you're travelling on the overland map (the zoomed out map) and you can't see in front of your nose, will the game let you walk into freezing cold water without giving you the pop-up warning?

If I'm using a spear with the blunt aspect, is that as effective at preserving skin quality as using something like a club or a mace (which ONLY do blunt damage) would be? Or can you accidentally do point damage even when you selected blunt?

Is there a weapon of choice to preserve skins from damage? Currently I'm using a mace, but is 5 whacks with a club going to preserve the skin better than 2 with a mace would?

I've heard that humans can (theoretically) outrun any animal over a long enough distance. Maybe that's not true. Is it true in this game? If I follow a wolf or a dog for days am I likely to eventually tire it out?

If I kill someone (say a Njerpez) who is out for a stroll with his dog, is there any way to rehabilitate/adopt the dog or do I have to either kill it too or run it off?

If you have 100% climbing skill and let's say full light green blunt protection, can you still die from falling out of a tree? Does the game EVER kill you outright from falling out of a tree? Sharing falling out of tree with catastrophic injury stories would be welcome.

Does feeding a dog elk bones reduce their performance compared to feeding them raw meat cuts? Or is it just more time consuming for them to eat? Why does a dog sometimes bark at me when I feed it bones (a few ticks after I've gotten the happy look message,) especially when I look away?

Does fishing in rapids with nets in the dead of winter damage nets more than fishing in rapids with nets in summer?

I got a quest that requires you to stand on a tiny (1 tile) island in the middle of a lake at midnight. Are there any 1 tile islands in lakes that you can access or is that quest a troll or can the island be slightly bigger than 1 tile? (You might be able to tell that I've done a lot of searching for 1 tile islands, which are fairly common in rivers but seem to be either rare or nonexistent in lakes (unless they're unclimbable from every angle.)

I had some mixed answers as to how safe it is to leave items around on the map, say at a shelter. Is it at least 100% safe to leave things in your settlement/cabin with the door closed or will NPC's open the door and go in and get stuff?

Thanks in advance again for answers to any of the above.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Privateer on February 10, 2020, 12:56:17 AM
Hi,

Club, a masterwork club will better your chances of maintaining the quality over the stages. Stone/rock are decent quality clubs.

Dark, no the game protects you from walking in water whether you see it or not.

blunt, this attack preserves the hide the most, blunt with a rock does 1hp dmg. Blunt with a weapon designed with blunt does more health dmg, finishing prey more quickly.

weapon: clubs are best to save the hides.

Running, Chasing down live prey in game is as expected difficult at best. Generally active hunting requires some preparation.

NPC's dog, I know that you could eventually leash animals in wiped out settlements, I do not know if this has been implemented with the recent dog changes.

Tree fall; Not that I know of. Even naked, generally bumps and scratches.

Feed performance; no difference from dog fed level. Bones are harder to eat and extract fulfillment from that say a 7 lb fish gulped down in one bite.

Nets, net wear should be consistent over seasons, in-game

Quest, Good luck :D

Safe storage, 99.x% safe
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on February 10, 2020, 03:04:24 AM
Thank-you again for answering my questions, Privateer.

And a not exactly 'gameplay' question:

Is it normal for 'map maintenance' to become more frequent as the game progresses (perhaps as more of the map is explored?)

It didn't bother me when it was once or twice an hour, but when it's every 15 seconds (as I explore new areas of the map), it's a little immersion-breaking.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Privateer on February 10, 2020, 03:36:10 AM
I've not experienced it but have seen issues posted about map maint.
Exploring lots of zoomed in tiles is thought (by me) to create possible problems.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Tom H on February 10, 2020, 05:31:15 AM
I have recovered lost javelins from piles of elk bones I've found, several times. Sometimes the creatures are just too clever for me and I lose their track when they pass through a thoroughly trodden area, and when the blood trail peters out. Then they die of blood loss and I lose the javelins. And I've recovered javelins from fully recovered, previously hunted, animals.

The one-hex islands are most easily found within rapids, although I have found them in lakes, too.

While pets never suffer from exposure, I've had Companions drown while I stood all night on a one-hex island. I'd told him to Stay! He didn't listen.

I've taken serious damage from a pet sow which I'd accidentally struck while killing a trapped animal. Attacked from behind. I've been seriously injured twice by surprise attacks by a bear from behind. Once I went over a blind hill chasing a wounded elk and stumbled immediately into a bear. Serious injury. I've never been attacked in my sleep.

When a dog barks at me after they've been fed, I usually give them another bite to eat. They often eat it. Otoh, cattle and deer will moo and snort for no reason at all.

I used to send my dogs after game to run it down. Now, I use tracking and just keep after them until they're exhausted...or escape. The best way to do this is in large areas of open-type mires where they can't use the forests to hide or slow you down. I've never had a chase last a whole day.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on February 10, 2020, 08:17:27 AM
Privateer, yes, it's when I zoom in and zoom out a lot. On this trip I'd been doing it every tile and now it's doing map maintenance every time I zoom in.

One of my few pet peeves about the game is when you see like a wolf (or a hare) in the distance and you can just march right on top of it and 'magically' teleport directly on top of him whereas he would just run away if you tried to do that in the zoomed in map. Hunting doesn't really feel like hunting when you have the ability to teleport on top of an animal. So I tend to zoom in a lot. I also like to see the trees and not just the forest. I guess I'll have to use the overland map more and accept that teleporting is part of the game.

Tom, I considered that the quest might work in rivers and was going to try to see if it would work in a one-hex river island. But I'm pretty sure the quest-giver specifically said lakes. Anyway, I appreciate that people might not want spoilers and I'll probably find it more rewarding to work it out on my own, thanks.

I think I'll continue to send my dog after reindeer and elk, just not after wolves any more. I guess if I had a gang of them they could take on wolves, but dogs are overpowered enough without having more than one of them at a time, imo. Thanks for your reply.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on February 10, 2020, 08:36:10 AM
A question I think I know the answer to but wanted to confirm:

There is no penalty for zig-zagging, in that one diagonal move is considered the same distance as one vertical or horizontal move (in other words if I go Northeast 5 tiles and Southeast 5 tiles I end up at the same spot in the same amount of time having expended the same 'vigour' as if I'd just gone due East 10 tiles.) Is this correct (in both the overland map and the zoomed in map)?
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Privateer on February 10, 2020, 08:49:46 AM
You can hit the [7] key to force map maintenance.

 This link looks similar to your description https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=1100.msg3710#msg3710 (https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=1100.msg3710#msg3710)

Moving on overland map I'd say yes, terrain has no effect. On local map the amount of energy/effort to move 'East' can vary depending on terrain
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: PALU on February 10, 2020, 09:39:48 AM
Running down prey: No, you can't. In UrW running tires you quickly. Animals tire from running as well, but more slowly. The trick to endurance hunting animals in UrW is to keep them running while your character is walking, to get the animals breathless. Once an animal is shown to be a little tired, I can have my character run towards it to get it to start running again, and then immediately revert to walking. If a reindeer walks/runs in a straight line I've never managed to run them into the ground as they recover their breath in the time it takes my character to walk up to them, but if they twist and turn and you've got enough visibility to make shortcuts it's possible to catch up to them again while they're still recovering, chipping off a bit of breach each time you catch up to them. Once they're tired you've got a very good chance, provided they don't manage to shake you off their tail.
You can also use river/lake shores to get animals to run back and forth until they tire.

Excessive map maintenance: Never happened to me even with a character that had been played for about 10 years (maintenance happened occasionally, sure, but not excessively so). It's some kind of bug, although I guess you might get issues if UrW can somehow detect that the game is running out of memory on marginal hardware.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: marginoferror on February 10, 2020, 06:45:10 PM
In real life I believe persistence hunting wears down prey in part by preventing them from drinking, eating, sleeping, etc. over a long period. In the game, this isn't modeled for prey animals; if they get down to 0% fatigue by walking while you're still catching up, it's as if the slate was totally clean (for them, but maybe not for you!). Therefore, any sort of delay in reaching the prey, for instance by being confused by another trail briefly or losing the trail in the forest for a while, will certainly reset your progress completely. But if you avoid those delays, you can still run them down if you're fast, lucky and have excellent tracking and visibility.

Since most of my arrow shots at best wound my prey, I usually end up running them down anyways, just with the prey at a modest disadvantage. Usually I wait for the prey to look slightly fatigued (if it's not wounded, then I have to wait all the way to fatigued) and then run it down at full tilt. If you can match the prey's speed at a full run at any point, then you can run it down to 100% fatigue in short order, as there's a snowball effect where it has to exert itself harder to cover ever less ground.

I tried to run down an elk calf over ice, separating it from its parent. It was trivial; they were MUCH slower than an adult. But, the process produced hardly any meat or skin and also I felt kind of bad.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: PALU on February 10, 2020, 11:28:56 PM
Yes, marginoferror made a very good point I forgot: Prey tires considerably faster when injured, and is particularly useful if it hinders their movement (hobbled, etc.).
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Labtop 215 on February 12, 2020, 07:06:04 AM
Actually, characters with high speed, endurance, and heavy body weight (body weight helps you carry more, which means minimal equipment weighs you down less) can run down big game like elk, reindeer, and stag.  You need to be fully zoomed out, and you need to take walking breaks when you no longer see the animal, but you can run down big game directly.  Works best in early spring, when there is some snow on the ground.  Enough to leave tracks, but preferably not enough to fatigue you while walking.

High tracking skill helps, as does persistance hunting in pine forests (not spruce forests or spruce mires), and persistance hunting along a river or body of water.

Some animals are generated with better stamina, or speed, but not all of them are.  Also, cubs tend to be slower, so if you want to play dirty, injuring the cub and then staying a small distance away, will cause the mother to come back and then run away constantly.  She wont (or at least shouldn't) tire herself out this way, but this can be a way to potentially take 2 animals down at once.  Cub meat and fur gains have been nerfed in recent versions, but if your character is starving, killing the cub is still a way to deal with your hunger for the next few months, if you preserve it correctly.

Running down animals directly isn't normally how your supposed to hunt though.



Also, I have lost characters while falling out of a tree that I told them to climb.  The most gruesome one was a fairly fresh male Kamoulious archer that I rolled up with high stats.  I had just finished skinning and butchering a stag and was weighed down to nearly my carry limit for that character.  I tried climbing a tree, having forgotten to drop the heavy load, and he fell out of the tree after climbing about like 35, maybe 45 feet up the tree.  Landed on his crotch and died instantly.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on February 12, 2020, 10:30:52 PM
Actually, characters with high speed, endurance, and heavy body weight (body weight helps you carry more, which means minimal equipment weighs you down less) can run down big game like elk, reindeer, and stag.

Yes, I just chased an elk for hours (irl) and days (in-game) until I finally got her (she didn't have a scratch on her until I started beating her with my staff.) This character has mediocre weapons skills and I haven't been south to buy a dog yet (I'm still undecided on the dog, they're so overpowered for active hunting.) The tracking mini-game is one of my favorite parts of UrW.

I have another question that isn't about gameplay exactly, but:

Many villages will have a shelter or tiny tent set up. Are those for visitors to the village like the player? I realize you can sleep in the main cabin or the main tent or whatever, but I try to roleplay a little bit and that feels too cheesy to me. But I think it would be not-cheesy and not-exploity to use those shelters/tiny tents on the occasion when I'm exhausted and happen to be in a village with one. What say you, UrW forums?
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Privateer on February 12, 2020, 10:57:09 PM
As you state any structure will do. That being said 'IF' a village / settlement has (taken the time to build) an actual 'shelter' set up, I usually stay there as RP.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: JEB Davis on February 12, 2020, 11:04:04 PM
Likewise, if roleplaying and had only visited that village rarely enough to be a stranger to them, I would use the shelter. If well known to the villagers, I would use the common building.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on February 13, 2020, 12:11:49 AM
Wow, I'm glad others have given that some thought.

Speaking of role-playing, what do you do when a hunting companion dies? Let's say he's from a friendly village. I didn't enjoy my one hunting companion experience so maybe y'all never use the companion feature.

I'm refining my Kipchoge hunting technique. I dropped all my gear except my staff this time. First 3 rounds and the small reindeer buck was laughing at me, but on the 4th round when 'Slightly Fatigued' arrived, I knew I had him. Fun way to hunt.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on February 13, 2020, 12:32:37 AM
Okay another few gameplay questions:

Does either raw meat or cooked meat or both spoil more quickly on the ground than it does in your possession?

Is dumping raw meat or cooked meat in a hole in the ice so it won't spoil as quickly a viable thing to do?

Has anyone done an in-depth spoilage analysis? Like the exact date when food starts spoiling again and exactly how long food lasts at various times of year, and whether it's actually weather-dependent or simply date-dependent.

Does the 'wrap yourself in furs' while sleeping message confer any actual tangible bonus to the quality of your sleep or is it just flavor?

Edit: And another:

Do the foreign traders despawn or do they just move around very slowly? If they despawn, do the same ones reappear somewhere else or is that particular group with those particular items not coming back?

Hmmm, I just realized I forgot to put my clothes back on after I cooked up the reindeer. It was nice of the villagers not to mention anything.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: JEB Davis on February 13, 2020, 02:22:45 AM
...
Does either raw meat or cooked meat or both spoil more quickly on the ground than it does in your possession?

Is dumping raw meat or cooked meat in a hole in the ice so it won't spoil as quickly a viable thing to do?

Has anyone done an in-depth spoilage analysis? Like the exact date when food starts spoiling again and exactly how long food lasts at various times of year, and whether it's actually weather-dependent or simply date-dependent.

Does the 'wrap yourself in furs' while sleeping message confer any actual tangible bonus to the quality of your sleep or is it just flavor?

Edit: And another:

Do the foreign traders despawn or do they just move around very slowly? If they despawn, do the same ones reappear somewhere else or is that particular group with those particular items not coming back?

Hmmm, I just realized I forgot to put my clothes back on after I cooked up the reindeer. It was nice of the villagers not to mention anything.
Haha, is your character extra hairy? Maybe they thought it was an animal?

My only answer to your questions is that I don't know about the spoilage, 'wrap yourself in furs' does improve something, I think they despawn at some point, and I doubt the same ones would reappear, they wander though.

I know this didn't help you. But just so you know, I deliberately DON'T want to know analyzed details because that goes against my style of play. Have you read any of my stories, perchance? Those would *illustrate* my playstyle if you're interested.

* They have lots of pictures!
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on February 13, 2020, 04:45:49 AM
Haha, is your character extra hairy? Maybe they thought it was an animal?

My only answer to your questions is that I don't know about the spoilage, 'wrap yourself in furs' does improve something, I think they despawn at some point, and I doubt the same ones would reappear, they wander though.

I know this didn't help you. But just so you know, I deliberately DON'T want to know analyzed details because that goes against my style of play.

I agree that you can overanalyze things and that if you deconstruct it too much you can destroy much of the beauty of the game. I haven't read your stories, but I'll check them out.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Labtop 215 on February 13, 2020, 06:12:42 AM
If it's cold outside, meat will spoil slower outside of your inventory than inside your inventory.  This bonus also stacks with the cellar, as far as I'm aware.  Once the food is either smoked or dried however, I believe only the cellar will prolong the shelf life of your meat.

Alternatively, meat held by human companions doesn't seem to spoil either, but I think that is only intended so that your companion doesn't starve.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: PALU on February 13, 2020, 10:22:44 AM
"Wrap in furs" has at least one benefit: it can keep the character warm even if the temperature is such that you'd wake up shivering halfway through the sleep without them.

Spoilage is randomized. It seems a spoilage roll is made at the turn of every day for every item subject to spoilage, with different outcomes for different stacks. The roll is influenced by temperature and cellar storage. It makes logical sense and I don't think that's too detailed to be an issue for JEB Davis. Sometimes you can get unlucky to have things degrade almost immediately, and sometimes they can last a fair bit longer than expected.

A bug/exploit/feature is that things don't seem to be subjected to spoilage when your character is away, so it's possible to go away on a two week trip and then return to find that the raw meat left behind in the cellar hadn't spoiled (I tend to leave raw meat to either spoil or be used for cooking a bit at a time, as dogs can eat spoiled raw meat, but not spoiled cooked meat, so if it spoils it can be used for dog food).

I haven't hired any companions with the new capabilities yet, but in the past I hired them only for the game course event and for robber quest posse collection. Those that died were given a fire burial (which is a pain, as leaving the site blocks the burning process to complete correctly, so you essentially have to sit around in the area through the process, rather than return to the village where you left your cow of burden to collect it so you can bring home the spoils).

I've never encountered the same foreign merchants twice: they're always shown as nameless when looked at (if you return to the same group during the same trip they're known, of course).
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: JEB Davis on February 13, 2020, 10:47:54 AM
Sorry for the wet blanket, PALU.
I must have been in a strange mood... *Urist sketches pictures of a different time, in an unknown, almost unreal world.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on February 14, 2020, 01:43:45 AM
For the record, I deleted a bug report I posted in error about when you greet someone and ask them who they are and tell them your name. I thought the game automatically took the option to tell them your name or ask them their name away the instant that you performed it the first time and that my game had stopped doing that for some reason. But it doesn't do that until you leave that menu and go to another menu or just ESC out of the conversation and then convo again. I dun misremembered.

Normally I don't delete my mistakes, but I don't like people browsing a thread and wasting time reading nonsense bug reports either so this post in my vanity thread (of sorts) is a compromise.

Another gameplay question which is more style/RP than game mechanics:

How do people tend to cook large batches of meat (like from an elk or a reindeer)? Do you carry it all at once? Do you set it all next to the fire and pick up batches of 10 individually? Do you set it away from the fire and travel a bit back and forth to pick up your batches of 10? Or have you all outgrown roasting and just dry all your meat?

That leads me to my drying question: Does anybody else only dry 19 cuts per tile? Do others consider the 19 cuts for 10 feet a bit cheesy, borderline exploity? Or is it intended? I wonder what the reasoning behind the 19 cuts thing is as opposed to just 10 cuts for 10 feet. It's not like rope is that much of a luxury good, so I guess for a veteran it's kind of a nonsense question. But I pose those sometimes.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: PALU on February 14, 2020, 10:35:23 AM
Unless it's winter, roasting more than 20 cuts is useless, unless you plan on selling them, as they'll spoil before you can eat them. I tend to roast about 10 and roast a new lot of 10 when the previous one has been eaten, unless the raw meat has spoiled in the mean time.

In general, I try to keep food in the cellar, not carrying more than necessary. With the previous system, that meant drying/smoking 19 cuts at a time (largest possible batches with that system, where cord WAS a scarce resource for early players, and it was used up as well), and the cellar gets placed just outside of the "sauna", so it's just a matter of picking up a new lot for the new order without moving for drying.
With the new system I expect I'll go for 48 at a time, once the "sauna" is ready (my current character is hiking to the nearest village to "borrow" their sauna for smoking).

@JEB Davis: No worries, and I'm fairly sure there are no Noadi mushrooms in DF ;)
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on February 15, 2020, 12:55:41 AM
Unless it's winter, roasting more than 20 cuts is useless, unless you plan on selling them ...

If it's winter, roasting more than a dozen or so cuts (arguably roasting any cuts at all) is useless, because you can dry them ... 90% of the meat I cook, I cook to sell since none of my characters have survived a full year yet and still have many things to buy.

I haven't heard about the new cooking system. I assume there's a thread somewhere. I assume it hasn't been implemented yet? I'm still drying in batches of 19, assuming that's the correct amount if you want to maximize your rope/cord-efficiency?
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on February 15, 2020, 01:00:48 AM
Another gameplay question, this time just confirming what I think I already know: My understanding is that it is impossible for a character to craft a masterwork javelin (or any other item that utilizes the Common skill to create it,) even from a masterwork staff (so it would be foolish for me to try?)

Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Privateer on February 15, 2020, 01:29:42 AM
I haven't heard about the new cooking system. I assume there's a thread somewhere. I assume it hasn't been implemented yet? I'm still drying in batches of 19, assuming that's the correct amount if you want to maximize your rope/cord-efficiency?

 Cooking used to use #1 cord for 10 cuts by default AND up to 19 cuts manually '20 cuts' the increment of the tens column to two used to trigger a second cord.
This used to 'provide' an opportunity to max cord usage.
NOW, cord length is used according to the specific number of cuts you enter.
Cord can be recovered after process.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on February 15, 2020, 02:39:19 AM
So I've been wasting my time drying 19 at a time, then? I can just dry like 95 in one go if I have 50 feet of cord?

Part of the roleplay reason I used to justify the 19 for 10 feet was that I was being slow and deliberate and spreading the meat all around my cabin (to give it more air.) But if the mechanic has been fixed, that's great. I did notice that when I did 19 cuts at a time that the 19 popped in on its own, I didn't manually override, so that made it feel less greasy.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Privateer on February 15, 2020, 03:29:05 AM
Yes,
 Cord used to be 0.5 lb with no length designation.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: PALU on February 15, 2020, 08:48:34 AM
I believe the maximum batch size is now 50. However, you might waste your time slightly by still doing 19 at a time, but you don't waste much time for your character, as the time it takes used to be 2 minutes per cut, and I don't think that's changed, so the wasted character time is the time it takes to pick up an additional batch of cuts and typing equipment.

Also note that a larger batch increases the risk of having to abandon the task (with all progress lost) due to cold, frostbite, or interrupting hostiles.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on February 15, 2020, 09:06:31 AM
Another couple of questions:

Does the amount of kindling (twigs/branches) you use affect the chance that you will successfully start a fire? (I realize that the more wood you use the longer a fire will burn, but that's not what I'm asking.) So if I use 5 twigs is there just as good a chance that I will start a fire as if I use 10 twigs?

Does anything spoil in the winter in a (at least occasionally heated) cabin that wouldn't spoil outside? Either cuts of meat or skins or whatnot?
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: PALU on February 15, 2020, 01:34:55 PM
I don't think the amount of wood affects the chances. I use 3 twigs for cooking and one cutting of branches for lighting a warming fire (so I can cut more while being heated by the newly lit one).

I don't know about heated cabins: I never heat mine (the stove is for looks only, and smoking/cooking is done in the "sauna"), and all perishables not kept in the character inventory are stored in the cellar (as soon as one is built, which is a very high priority task, and certainly built before a cabin has been built).
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Tom H on February 15, 2020, 04:44:43 PM
Now nearing the 4th year with a character. I've had some smoked meat that spoiled even in the cellar. I made a habit of hiring Companions and buying items with the smoked meats, thereafter, to get rid of it before it went bad.

I've also had some foods like grain/beans/flour that spoiled, that I'd not kept in the cellar. I've still got lake reed roots and flour from the first year that has stayed viable in the cellar. I have not had any herbs go bad yet.

There doesn't seem to be any correlation to the amount of wood and the chance of starting a fire. I've failed a dozen times to light a cabin fireplace with 16 branches and likewise failed a dozen times outside with only 3 branches.

I've gotten messages saying I'm cold INSIDE my cabin when the temp drops significantly. I've been awakened from sleep by the cold, inside the cabin. Having lost my first established character to the cold, I always try to keep the cabin warm. The only way I can think of to test the cabin's warmth is to try to bake bread, or cook a stew. If it says I can't, I assume the cabin is getting cold.

Note that you can make cooked food spoil by leaving it too long by the fire. So, cooking inside village houses with their long-lasting fires can result in spoilage if you walk away for a while. Palu's "3 twigs" fires are always safe, but you can't do the more advanced dishes with just a campfire.

Regarding that Masterwork staff, it will probably result in a FINE javelin. I've made Fine javelins from Fine staffs. I'm keeping my Masterwork staff...heh.

As for cooking large batches of meat, I pick it all up and keep pressing the 'R' key, to get it done quickly. That's always been with newer characters who had not the needed cords or the like to smoke/dry it.
I've had meat that spoiled before I could finish the roasting even as I raced to cook it all. At least it's still good for dog food. Occasionally, I've traded the whole of a kill, cut down, while it's uncooked.

Re: Companion skills- Companion's fires last a goodly amount of time. They don't use any wood, it's just magic!

They seem to fell trees in accordance with their given skill level, possibly even faster. I've had a master down a dozen in a day with a handaxe! My guy would be too tired out to do so many. On the downside, they'll cut down trees randomly. They don't care if that tree is part of your fence. It seems they ONLY cut down large spruce trees. I could be wrong on that, but, they've avoided the birch and alders around my cabin. Think I'll take one to a grove and test that.

They'll make logs from tree trunks, nothing special. Maybe it's just me but they seem to take a long time doing it for small results.
 
They are acceptable at skinning/butchering. The pelts I've gotten from them have been either Decent or Fine. Otoh, waiting around for them while they skin a kill is monotonous. I'd like to hear how timely they perform this when you, also, have a carcass to skin/butcher.

They roast whatever uncooked foods you give them. If you don't take it from them, they'll eat it, too.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on February 15, 2020, 06:31:41 PM
I intend to compile these answers in the OP at some point, along with all of the questions (at least the ones that get answered (in a seemingly knowledgeable way.)) But for now I'll keep asking:

Does it matter which weapon is in the 1 slot and which weapon is in the 2 slot? If you throw a javelin in the 2 slot does it have a lower hit chance or a lower damage roll than a javelin thrown from the 1 slot? If you only have a weapon in the 2 slot (say a 2-handed weapon) does the game treat it the same as if it were in the 1 slot?

Thanks for the companions discussion, I'm completely ignorant of that subject as my one companion experience ended abruptly. Do folks hire companions mainly to get them killed so they can take their stuff? Does the village care what you do with the loot of the companion who died? My understanding is that the only penalty is that the villagers won't want to join you on your adventures for a while, is there more to it than that? (I really should research this on my own first, which I haven't done, but if you want to give me a link to the info, that works too.)

If you have dark green protection on a body part, will more clothing/armour have any marginal utility to the protection of that body part or basically is armour protection capped at dark green?
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: PALU on February 15, 2020, 07:35:04 PM
As far as I understand you can cook food that don't require an open fire as long as there are embers in the stove, and you can just look at the stove to see the embers (look as in the in-game command).

I never attempt to get companions killed, but when they do their stuff joins the pile of robber items recovered when the robbers that killed the companion(s) have been taken care of.
The penalty for getting companions killed has been that no further companions will ever join me from that village, but that might have been fixed (there was a bug that caused former companion to never be available for recruiting again: it was always "not now, but maybe in the future" for many years. That bug has been fixed, though).
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Tom H on February 15, 2020, 10:51:46 PM
I've never tried to get my Companions killed, either, although I've lost a fair number of them to combat and one to nature. When they die, their gear goes into my stash.

Unlike many folks here, I've never hired a large crew to hunt down robbers or Njerp villages. In fact, I only really want them (one of them) to help me deal with the individual Njerp I run across in my general area. I just consider it necessary because they can, and do, find their way to my settlement. It's been a shock to me to look up from some activity near home and find a Njerp, or a robber gang, heading for me.

Anyway, after taking a few arrows in the back, and from the stories people have related of their experiences with Companion gangs, I usually won't hire a Companion that has a bow and arrows. However, since they often offer the arrows in trade, I sometimes trade for their arrows and THEN hire them.

When they leave your employ, Companions often have pathing problems. My last one such forced me to open a hole in my fence because he wouldn't climb over it. When they reach a river, they can take a long time crossing over it. I've had another just stand in the road for weeks, even though his village was close by. I thought he was a robber and finally hired a guy and went to confront him, only to find it was a previous hire.

This is NOT gospel, but, supposedly the weapon quality affects the amount of damage inflicted, so, presumably, the armor quality could affect the damage taken. Otoh, I've been one-shotted by an arrow through the eyehole of my Masterwork Iron Spectacle helm, so, 'put not your faith in the works of Man'...lol. It makes a difference, too, what weapon type is used against you. Dark green can change to a lesser color, depending on the damage type the weapon causes.

(Edit: I took a Companion into a grove next to a village and told him to fell trees. He walked right through the grove, ignoring all the trees, and was heading into the village, apparently to cross it and get to some spruce trees on the other border.)
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on February 22, 2020, 12:01:19 PM
I had a bit of an interesting dilemma yesterday. A wolf had fallen through the ice and drowned about 8 tiles offshore. I was weary. It was a few degrees below freezing. I'll tell you what I did, but what would YOU have done? (FWIW this character has 100% swimming.)

Spoiler: show
I found a slender trunk and 3 branches and set a fire. I removed my clothes, dropped everything, and went in after the wolf. I went about 3 tiles (falling through the ice each tile) and then came back to the fire. (In hindsight, I think I should have just bitten the bullet and gone all the way for the wolf on the first go.) Once I got back to cold I went back in, went all the way to the wolf and brought it back. By the time I got back next to the fire I was just Numbingly Cold so I thought I was fine. I thought I'd warm more quickly next to the fire without my clothes on, so I just started skinning the wolf. I'm almost positive that I briefly dipped to Freezing while I was skinning the wolf, before I slowly warmed up and by the time I finished skinning it I was only up to Bitterly Cold. I ended up with a harsh skin (yuck.)


My adventure suggested a few more questions:

Does the concept of 'wet clothes' exist in the game? Do you warm more quickly next to a robust fire if you aren't wearing anything or if you're wearing furs? (I think I know the answer to that now.) Is there a (hidden) crafting penalty if you start a crafting job while Cold, Numbingly Cold, or Bitterly Cold? How about if the game says 'Your hand feels cold.'?

My dog also has a tendency to wander out onto any nearby ice and fall through (multiple times.) Is he at any risk of drowning or freezing? Does the concept of cold only apply to the player? Or to all NPC humans as well? Or to all creatures in the game?
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: PALU on February 22, 2020, 12:31:11 PM
Questions first:
Wet clothes do not exist. If you get into cold water you warm up faster with your clothes than without them, and I assume the fire effect is combined with the clothing effect to warm you up.

I don't think clumsy hands (or other parts) due to cold affects crafting.

Dogs on ice are in circumstantial danger. If you use a craft to get out on the water (smashing ice to go forward), the dog is in no danger, nor is it swimming in ice cold water while traveling by craft.
While you are on land the "normal" animal rules seem to apply. Normal traveling along the shore with the dog falling through occasionally is probably not dangerous, but traveling around a single tile lake is, because the dog tried to move towards you, which means further out on the ice. I've lost a dog due to this.

Fighting Njerps and robber while on a craft and they're in water occasionally leads to them going unconscious and dying, with no bleeding accounting for the death. I think it's cold rather than drowning.
The concept of cold as such probably applies only to the PC, but the combination of cold and water applies to NPCs as well (the villagers keep drowning in the village "well" bug has mostly been fixed, but not entirely, I believe).

What would I do?
- Best option: Go a short distance to the homestead to pick up a punt, return, and smash the ice to get to the carcass.
- Usual option: I don't think I wouldn't risk it with a wolf, but usually do with an elk (it sounds like a wolf is light enough that you're guaranteed to fall through): Prepare a fire on the shore. drop all carried equipment and then lie down. Crawl out on the ice (UrW takes position, and weight into consideration, and skis also allow you to move on thinner ice safely, although I assume it doesn't combine with prone), and retreat if it sounds like it's going to break. When reaching the carcass, pull it towards the character, crawl backwards, pull, crawl,... until reaching the shore (with the carcass still lying on the ice). Rest, as the fatigue tends to be very high (I've had cases where I had to retreat, rest up, and then continue to pull the rest of the way). Skin only when fully rested.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Bert Preast on February 22, 2020, 07:59:21 PM
I just had the same sort of thing happen, an apparently lone wolf came to my cabin and attacked my two dogs.  I poked my head out the door to see what all the noise was about, then grabbed a javelin and chucked it at wolfie.  I got him and he ran out onto the ice about 8 tiles before falling through and expiring.  I got a fire going, stripped off, went prone and crawled out to him, and as expected i fell through a few times.  I even ended up with a harsh skin too!  I think because my dogs got a couple of bites in before I appeared.

However!  I didn't strip off everything - I kept a javelin and handaxe on me as I understand they help you climb back onto the ice after falling through.  I remember reading that somewhere, but I can't remember where. 
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: PALU on February 22, 2020, 10:16:39 PM
I just had the same sort of thing happen, an apparently lone wolf came to my cabin and attacked my two dogs.  I poked my head out the door to see what all the noise was about, then grabbed a javelin and chucked it at wolfie.  I got him and he ran out onto the ice about 8 tiles before falling through and expiring.  I got a fire going, stripped off, went prone and crawled out to him, and as expected i fell through a few times.  I even ended up with a harsh skin too!  I think because my dogs got a couple of bites in before I appeared.

However!  I didn't strip off everything - I kept a javelin and handaxe on me as I understand they help you climb back onto the ice after falling through.  I remember reading that somewhere, but I can't remember where. 
Yes, I believe Sami said that. I'd suggest the best tools would be a couple of knives, as they're light weight and the closest approximation of the tools people use nowadays in case of falling through.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Tom H on February 23, 2020, 01:36:48 PM
Just another edit to my previous post: Companions apparently only fell large spruce AND large pine trees. They seem to ignore the trees on which one can strip bark.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on February 25, 2020, 02:17:19 AM
More questions:

Can the player craft 'fine' clothing? Can the player craft 'fine' javelins? Is there any gameplay difference between fine cord and inferior cord (does fine cord tend to create better tasting dried cuts for example?) or does it only matter if you were to want to trade it? Has anyone done a fairly recent analysis of all of the damage protection profiles for various furs and leathers? Is there a crafting difference between winter fur and non-winter fur of the same animal type? I'd heard/read somewhere that winter bear fur is the best fur to make clothing out of, is that generally true? Is bear leather also the best leather? I can't imagine there's such a thing as 'winter leather', but just in case, is there?

If I put my dog on a 100 foot leash and tie him to a tree, will he use that 100 feet or will he stay within 1 hex of the tree?
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: marginoferror on February 25, 2020, 03:45:00 AM
More questions:

Can the player craft 'fine' clothing? Can the player craft 'fine' javelins? Is there any gameplay difference between fine cord and inferior cord (does fine cord tend to create better tasting dried cuts for example?) or does it only matter if you were to want to trade it? Has anyone done a fairly recent analysis of all of the damage protection profiles for various furs and leathers? Is there a crafting difference between winter fur and non-winter fur of the same animal type? I'd heard/read somewhere that winter bear fur is the best fur to make clothing out of, is that generally true? Is bear leather also the best leather? I can't imagine there's such a thing as 'winter leather', but just in case, is there?

If I put my dog on a 100 foot leash and tie him to a tree, will he use that 100 feet or will he stay within 1 hex of the tree?

I usually play a modded version of the game so the following is my best recollection of vanilla behavior.

I am not sure about clothing, but the player can indeed create 'fine' javelins, especially if using fine staves (which are based on your timbercraft skill to craft). Cord quality does not seem to impact food quality; however, it does impact the quality of other quality-bearing items crafted with cords such as bows.

There has been a lot of historical work on damage resistance and so forth but unfortunately I haven't found good documentation on exactly what versions were tested, so I don't know how up to date it is. To synthesize the most recent information I've read: bear fur is very protective, so if that's what you want, go for it, but there are some warmer furs. Winter furs should be warmer but I don't know about other qualities. There is no "winter leather" and I am not aware of any species differences in types of leather either.

I haven't observed any changes in animal behavior depending on the length of the leash, but admittedly I have not experimented with a 100 foot leash.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: PALU on February 25, 2020, 08:45:32 AM
- You can't craft fine clothing, because clothing is crafted using the Common skill which has a fixed skill rating that's not sufficient to produce fine result.
- I have to correct marginoferror regarding javelins: You can indeed craft fine ones, but to do that you have to buy fine staves for your input material, as you can't make better than decent ones yourself, because the starting material is for staves is always decent, and the result quality can't exceed that.
- I'd expect the protective value of leather to follow that of the corresponding hide (apart from the cold protection, of course), but haven't got any data to back that up.

When crafting, input material can either influence the quality of the output, or explicitly be exempted from doing that, causing the result to instead be based on the other input materials (and other factors, such as tool impact, skill, penalties, etc). You'd have to look at each recipe to determine which input affects the result.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on February 25, 2020, 12:13:51 PM
- You can't craft fine clothing, because clothing is crafted using the Common skill which has a fixed skill rating that's not sufficient to produce fine result.
Aren't cords crafted using the Common skill?
As for fine staves, my Timbercraft is at 68, so when it hits 70 I'll test that myself.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Edico on February 25, 2020, 07:36:04 PM
You can only craft fine staves in modded versions. Highest craftable in vanilla is decent. You can get fine cords from fine cloth or better, and sometimes you can craft fine javelins if you can find fine/master work staves for sale. I believe it's easier to do so if you have the applicable master work tool, as it should add 10% skill to common. Also easier if you limit your penalties. I think the only reason you can get fine cords is because you're using fine or better cloth.

Winter fur doesn't add anything as far as protection. Fine/masterwork designation for clothing seems to increase protection for fur/leather/iron/chain, as to how much I'm not sure. My guess is value*1.25 and 1.5 respectively, rounded down. Wool/linen seem unaffected by those tags
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Ara D. on February 26, 2020, 10:13:13 PM
Small pointy things, knives, absolutely help you get out of broken ice, I can't remember where but I've seen a post where Sami mentioned it. And ya like you I would have started a fire, dropped all my gear except for knives for less weight and crawled out to the wolf. On a side note I'm more like to risk it for a wolf over an elk. Generally once established I have a good food stock pile and I am more interested in high value pelts.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on February 27, 2020, 07:57:10 PM
Small pointy things, knives, absolutely help you get out of broken ice, I can't remember where but I've seen a post where Sami mentioned it. And ya like you I would have started a fire, dropped all my gear except for knives for less weight and crawled out to the wolf. On a side note I'm more like to risk it for a wolf over an elk. Generally once established I have a good food stock pile and I am more interested in high value pelts.
I knew the ice wouldn't hold me, so crawling didn't make sense in this case. I wanted ALL of the ice to break, though, being unable to pull myself up onto the ice was the ONLY way I felt like I might die if I had a fire already built. I mainly dropped things so it would be easier to swim and I wasn't sure if the game didn't make you lose things in the water if you were at risk of drowning.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on February 27, 2020, 08:04:15 PM
So far, on fine javelins, the limiting factor seems to be ordinary slender tree trunks, which seem to prevent you from making fine staves. I've noticed that there are (at least) 2 different types of logs, even though they're both called log. Can someone with really high timbercraft confirm that there is only 1 type of slender tree trunk? I've never seen them divide into groups.
(https://cdn1.imggmi.com/uploads/2020/2/27/eb2abb22ddaf402c983aed47f3b1e9b0-full.png)

Of course it's possible that even with a fine staff, you can't craft a fine javelin. The one time I tried, I created a regular javelin. And there was no failure message like there is with fur when you downgrade something. But maybe that failure message ONLY shows up in the case of fur?
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: marginoferror on February 27, 2020, 10:16:48 PM
Of course it's possible that even with a fine staff, you can't craft a fine javelin. The one time I tried, I created a regular javelin. And there was no failure message like there is with fur when you downgrade something. But maybe that failure message ONLY shows up in the case of fur?

The failure message only shows up in the case of fur. Other crafted items, there is a message if you roll higher than the source material allows (you could have done better, but you can't make good out of bad) but no message if you roll lower than the source material allows.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: PALU on February 27, 2020, 11:20:04 PM
There's only one kind of slender trunk. It can also be noted that both the kinds or regular trunks->logs are of Decent quality. They differ only for the purpose of a particular quest.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Labtop 215 on February 28, 2020, 12:23:21 AM
So far, on fine javelins, the limiting factor seems to be ordinary slender tree trunks, which seem to prevent you from making fine staves. I've noticed that there are (at least) 2 different types of logs, even though they're both called log. Can someone with really high timbercraft confirm that there is only 1 type of slender tree trunk? I've never seen them divide into groups.
(https://cdn1.imggmi.com/uploads/2020/2/27/eb2abb22ddaf402c983aed47f3b1e9b0-full.png)

Of course it's possible that even with a fine staff, you can't craft a fine javelin. The one time I tried, I created a regular javelin. And there was no failure message like there is with fur when you downgrade something. But maybe that failure message ONLY shows up in the case of fur?

One tree trunk was cut down when it was raining (or perhaps snowing, although I don't think snow and rain are the same thing), and the other was cut down when it wasn't raining.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Ara D. on February 28, 2020, 03:28:32 PM
There Is is a village request that specifies a trunk cut down while it's raining.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: PALU on February 28, 2020, 05:54:01 PM
There Is is a village request that specifies a trunk cut down while it's raining.
Snowing works as well. As far as I've been able to tell, the criterion is that there's precipitation when you finish the job. If it stops while you're working the log's no good for that particular purpose.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Plotinus on February 28, 2020, 09:22:00 PM
For that quest I start one tree and get it almost all the way done and then i do other stuff around the village until it rains.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on March 06, 2020, 11:17:31 PM
Confirming what the consensus here seemed to be, that you CAN craft a fine javelin if you start with a fine staff.

https://i.postimg.cc/QCjs4SGT/Screenshot-889.png
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on March 10, 2020, 08:56:38 PM
Does using stale fat to tan a hide have any negative implications on the outcome? Does mixing bark and fat have any negative implications?

If I repair a masterwork piece of clothing, does it remain masterwork or is there a good chance that it loses its premium designation? If I have a pair of elk fur mittens, can I use any fur to repair them or will the game only allow me to use elk fur?
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Edico on March 10, 2020, 09:41:03 PM
There shouldn't be any penalty for using stale fat or a mix of fat and bark. I can't remember if spoiled fat works. If you use the fat from the animal you can reduce penalties to 0. If you use bark, 99.9% of the time if you'll get at least a 1% penalty since the unused will be in your inventory.

Repairing clothing doesn't degrade quality, it will remain masterwork. You can use any fur to repair fur clothes, no penalty for quality either. However, if you use enough of one type of fur to repair the clothes, it can take on the properties of the fur type you used. For example, when I get masterwork fur clothes I like to use a little more than 1/2 for bandage/cords and then repair with bear fur. I then have masterwork bear fur clothes with additional pierce protection, even though the clothes won't say "bear fur."
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Ara D. on March 11, 2020, 12:45:48 PM
On the subject of fat I carry bird and squirrel fat for traps. The animals do not seem to care weather you bait with .1lb piece of fat or a 1 lb cut. So I can carry multiple .1 fat piece for the same weight as 1 cut. Also I've not noticed any real difference between fresh stale and spoiled raw bait, you can't use cooked food.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on March 11, 2020, 03:22:25 PM
There shouldn't be any penalty for using stale fat or a mix of fat and bark. I can't remember if spoiled fat works. If you use the fat from the animal you can reduce penalties to 0. If you use bark, 99.9% of the time if you'll get at least a 1% penalty since the unused will be in your inventory.

You seem to be implying that the weight penalty of the clean skin and of the tanning agent used in the tanning process is not counted when you apply tanning agent to a clean skin. Do you KNOW this to be true? I know that it shows no penalty at the END of the process, or DURING the process, as the hide is placed on the ground as soon as the process begins. But my understanding is that only the penalty at the beginning of a crafting process matters and it seems quite possible that the penalty is applied before the skin is dropped on the ground, depending on what order the steps of the crafting process are carried out by the game.

The same question applies to cooking. If I have 10 cuts and nothing else in my inventory and I roast them, is the penalty from the weight of the cuts applied against the cooking result?

These questions are rather autistic, but I'd rather learn to craft the optimal way and then not worry about it than continuously craft suboptimally. That's one of my tiny pet peeves is the seemingly random way in which items can either be nearby or must be in your inventory in order to craft something. If it were up to me, tools would always have to be in your inventory, as would any raw materials smaller than a slender trunk. Or just tools, and raw materials can always be nearby but not in your inventory. But, for instance, when you're drying meat, I believe the only thing that MUST be in your inventory is the tying equipment, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: PALU on March 11, 2020, 07:47:32 PM
There shouldn't be any penalty for using stale fat or a mix of fat and bark. I can't remember if spoiled fat works. If you use the fat from the animal you can reduce penalties to 0. If you use bark, 99.9% of the time if you'll get at least a 1% penalty since the unused will be in your inventory.

You seem to be implying that the weight penalty of the clean skin and of the tanning agent used in the tanning process is not counted when you apply tanning agent to a clean skin. Do you KNOW this to be true? I know that it shows no penalty at the END of the process, or DURING the process, as the hide is placed on the ground as soon as the process begins. But my understanding is that only the penalty at the beginning of a crafting process matters and it seems quite possible that the penalty is applied before the skin is dropped on the ground, depending on what order the steps of the crafting process are carried out by the game.

The same question applies to cooking. If I have 10 cuts and nothing else in my inventory and I roast them, is the penalty from the weight of the cuts applied against the cooking result?

These questions are rather autistic, but I'd rather learn to craft the optimal way and then not worry about it than continuously craft suboptimally. That's one of my tiny pet peeves is the seemingly random way in which items can either be nearby or must be in your inventory in order to craft something. If it were up to me, tools would always have to be in your inventory, as would any raw materials smaller than a slender trunk. Or just tools, and raw materials can always be nearby but not in your inventory. But, for instance, when you're drying meat, I believe the only thing that MUST be in your inventory is the tying equipment, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Whether encumbrance matter depends on how strenuous the task is. As far as I understand, light task take no penalty from encumbrance, while medium/heavy ones do.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on March 11, 2020, 09:17:08 PM
Whether encumbrance matter depends on how strenuous the task is. As far as I understand, light task take no penalty from encumbrance, while medium/heavy ones do.
I can't bring myself to waste a bunch of tasty cuts or fine furs to test this theory, but it's the first I've heard of it and I hope it isn't true.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Labtop 215 on March 11, 2020, 09:19:45 PM
Does using stale fat to tan a hide have any negative implications on the outcome? Does mixing bark and fat have any negative implications?

If I repair a masterwork piece of clothing, does it remain masterwork or is there a good chance that it loses its premium designation? If I have a pair of elk fur mittens, can I use any fur to repair them or will the game only allow me to use elk fur?

Not sure if the game will even let you use spoiled fat to tan with, but I haven't noticed any quality difference between using bark and fat to tan skins or hides.  However, I've been under the impression that using different fur to repair fur clothing can result in mixed values.  I have no confirmation on weather this is true, but I've seen the developer say this at one point.  Feel free to disregard this however as I don't have a link.

Also, the penalties tend to be difficult to pin down as well.  I havn't noticed any difference in results for crafting due to being encumbered.  The game will usually tell you if penalties are reducing your chances of success via a message like "Your attempt is determined to success poorly due to your encumbrance/fatigue/injuries/starvation.", if you don't see this message when your penalties are greater than 5%, then it most likely means that this particular action is not being penalized due to encumbrance/fatigue/injuries/starvation.

I mostly only see messages like these when fishing but I could be just tuning it out.  I can run some tests later on to see if encumbrance has any effect on crafting, but it doesn't seem too from my experience.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Tom H on March 12, 2020, 02:23:34 AM
I've tried using spoiled fat to tan. It's not acceptable.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Edico on March 12, 2020, 04:22:46 PM
There shouldn't be any penalty for using stale fat or a mix of fat and bark. I can't remember if spoiled fat works. If you use the fat from the animal you can reduce penalties to 0. If you use bark, 99.9% of the time if you'll get at least a 1% penalty since the unused will be in your inventory.

You seem to be implying that the weight penalty of the clean skin and of the tanning agent used in the tanning process is not counted when you apply tanning agent to a clean skin. Do you KNOW this to be true? I know that it shows no penalty at the END of the process, or DURING the process, as the hide is placed on the ground as soon as the process begins. But my understanding is that only the penalty at the beginning of a crafting process matters and it seems quite possible that the penalty is applied before the skin is dropped on the ground, depending on what order the steps of the crafting process are carried out by the game.

The same question applies to cooking. If I have 10 cuts and nothing else in my inventory and I roast them, is the penalty from the weight of the cuts applied against the cooking result?

These questions are rather autistic, but I'd rather learn to craft the optimal way and then not worry about it than continuously craft suboptimally. That's one of my tiny pet peeves is the seemingly random way in which items can either be nearby or must be in your inventory in order to craft something. If it were up to me, tools would always have to be in your inventory, as would any raw materials smaller than a slender trunk. Or just tools, and raw materials can always be nearby but not in your inventory. But, for instance, when you're drying meat, I believe the only thing that MUST be in your inventory is the tying equipment, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Whether encumbrance matter depends on how strenuous the task is. As far as I understand, light task take no penalty from encumbrance, while medium/heavy ones do.

Maybe in general this is true, but it's certainly not always true.  Fishing is not strenuous and you receive a message about encumbrance penalties when trying it

There shouldn't be any penalty for using stale fat or a mix of fat and bark. I can't remember if spoiled fat works. If you use the fat from the animal you can reduce penalties to 0. If you use bark, 99.9% of the time if you'll get at least a 1% penalty since the unused will be in your inventory.

You seem to be implying that the weight penalty of the clean skin and of the tanning agent used in the tanning process is not counted when you apply tanning agent to a clean skin. Do you KNOW this to be true? I know that it shows no penalty at the END of the process, or DURING the process, as the hide is placed on the ground as soon as the process begins. But my understanding is that only the penalty at the beginning of a crafting process matters and it seems quite possible that the penalty is applied before the skin is dropped on the ground, depending on what order the steps of the crafting process are carried out by the game.

The same question applies to cooking. If I have 10 cuts and nothing else in my inventory and I roast them, is the penalty from the weight of the cuts applied against the cooking result?

These questions are rather autistic, but I'd rather learn to craft the optimal way and then not worry about it than continuously craft suboptimally. That's one of my tiny pet peeves is the seemingly random way in which items can either be nearby or must be in your inventory in order to craft something. If it were up to me, tools would always have to be in your inventory, as would any raw materials smaller than a slender trunk. Or just tools, and raw materials can always be nearby but not in your inventory. But, for instance, when you're drying meat, I believe the only thing that MUST be in your inventory is the tying equipment, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Maybe the penalty is applied before the agents are combined, maybe after.  I truly don't know.  Unless you get the devs to give a specific response you won't know for sure.  I believe as you do only the penalty at the start would matter if it did, the question here is, is that calculated after the ingredients are "removed" from your inventory or before.  I play as though it's calculated after, as all i'll lose is the amount of time it takes me to drop excess items.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on March 30, 2020, 06:36:41 AM
I have a question about whether you'd consider something an exploit or not. It's a tactic I used to complete a quest:

Spoiler: show
Do you consider it an exploit to kill humans (robbers, njerps, etc.) from a punt with a bow and arrow while they flail around in the water? If you want to see the specific example I'm referring to, it's in episode 120 of my YouTube series here: https://youtu.be/8qGHD7BKk0w?t=3264 (https://youtu.be/8qGHD7BKk0w?t=3264)
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: PALU on March 30, 2020, 08:58:07 AM
It's up to you to decide what you think is an exploit, but I use that tactic when I can. I also try to get my opponent (whether human or animal) to tire themselves into the Breathless state before engaging them. UrW is unforgiving, and once a creature is injured its ability to both defend and attack quickly decreases, which means getting injured can quickly result in getting killed.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: JEB Davis on March 30, 2020, 01:58:29 PM
I have a question about whether you'd consider something an exploit or not. It's a tactic I used to complete a quest:

Spoiler: show
Do you consider it an exploit to kill humans (robbers, njerps, etc.) from a punt with a bow and arrow while they flail around in the water? If you want to see the specific example I'm referring to, it's in episode 120 of my YouTube series here: https://youtu.be/8qGHD7BKk0w?t=3264 (https://youtu.be/8qGHD7BKk0w?t=3264)

For me, it would depend...
1. If I lured the man into the water by taking advantage of an AI shortcoming for example, then it's an exploit.
2. If I wandered into the area and found the man already flailing in the water, cruel yes, exploit no.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on March 30, 2020, 11:45:32 PM
The game doesn't seem to like it when you travel far from a skin being soaked for leather. Is this by design? Has anyone done this successfully?

Details: I put a bear skin out to soak on the morning of day 6 week 3 before winter season. It said the skin would be ready in 13 days.

I travelled far away to a cultural territory 2 territories over.

I returned in the early evening of day 4, last week before winter season (12.5 days later) to a rotten de-haired bear skin.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: PALU on March 31, 2020, 08:59:11 AM
Sounds like a bug. I'd back up the save and file a bug report. The save would then be available if Sami wants to take a look at it. The log should confirm the timing of your actions, I think.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: Ara D. on March 31, 2020, 11:23:54 PM
The game switches between days in the morning. It is not a rolling clock. For example if you kill an elk around noon and fox during the small hours even though morning is only a couple hours away once morning rolls around everything advances by a day and game would consider both kills to be the same freshness. I don't know if you may have lost a day due to the time when the hide finished.
Title: Re: Various questions from a new player
Post by: jonottawa on April 01, 2020, 05:25:35 AM
Why is a hunting bow worth more than a long bow?

I get that not every item is going to be useful or optimal. But I don't get why I can offer a hunting bow from the njerp I just killed and this old man is happy to give me a masterwork long bow for it.