Recent Posts

1

Bug reports / [TYPO/GRAMMAR] Multiple item order from blacksmith

« Last post by JP_Finn on Today at 11:04:06 PM »

When inquiring if ordered fish hooks (or arrowheads) are ready, the response is formulated as it was a single item.

"How are those iron fishhooks coming along?"
"It will be ready shortly" << that should be "They will be ready shortly"

2

Suggestions / Re: Make Menu only for Modded items = saving BAC and other large mods

« Last post by Erkka on Today at 11:08:49 AM »

Also, just to be sure, a few more word of clarification on my side:

I didn't mean to say that adding a new key to bring up modded recipes would not help at all with maintaining and keeping the mods up to date with new version of UrW.

What I was thinking was a scenario like this:

1. Sami adds the new hotkey
2. But somehow it happens that no-one from the modding community updates BAC recipes

Then, the way I see it, the underlying root problem would remain unsolved - the extra hotkey probably would make it easier to access all the recipes in the mod, but the confusion with vanilla items and modded items, and vanilla recipes and modded recipes would still continue to exists.

But, I do see the point represented by PALU and others; having that extra hotkey would help in the transition phase, when a new UrW version introduces new mechanics, and the mod needs some time to adapt, and a clean way to access "compatibility recipes" to transform old modded items to corresponding new vanilla items. And that is something I fully support, and to me this sounds like a good argument.

---

Also, personally I like the modding approach. And in my opinion Sami has been maintaining a fine balance between "an artistic indie coder following his inner vision" and "listening to the player suggestions and wishes" - not locking up in the ivory tower, nor getting lost in the endless swamp of "design by committee". I see my role as helping Sami to develop the game which fulfills his inner vision.

And, at the same time I see that some players wish for a fully moddable game, which would have the modding in-built into the core structures of the game engine. I find that an interesting idea, but I do understand that it would be an another game, not UrW but something different. Now, as some of you might already guess - I suggest that those interested in exploring the possibility of a fully moddable survival game could take a look at the Ancient Savo project and its modding system. (not wanting to hijack this thread, just my contribution to the theme of "yes, Enormous Elk does care about modders, modding matters")

3

Suggestions / Re: Make Menu only for Modded items = saving BAC and other large mods

« Last post by PALU on Today at 10:07:21 AM »

A tangent regarding the lead developer's name from someone who doesn't know Finnish but has a slight idea of how Finnish works:
- The name is Sami, and I would "translate" it into English spelling as "Sammi".
- The Saami is a people related to the Finns. They're spread, as a people, over the northern parts of Norway, Sweden, and Finland. They also used to live on the northern part of the Kola peninsula, but I don't know if they've been exterminated, forcibly relocated, or remnants still remain there.  Their name is pronounced with a long "a".

4

Bug reports / Re: Of Wolf and Woman

« Last post by Sami on May 11, 2024, 10:31:47 AM »

Heh, a good example about the beauty and challenge of procedurally generated quests.
Of course the main intention with the quests is that they can be solved, but also in a living, procedurally generated world there are countless variables which may interfere - and also sometimes make them impossible to complete.

This case is something we can address, and I'll check up on that, but also NPC hunters might end up in killing the wolf. Or if it would choose to chase an elk, a good hoof kick might sometimes also prove fatal. And so on. This way the procedurally generated quests differ quite a bit from more commonly used static, linear game quests which follow the plot in more predicatable (and boring) fashion.

5

Suggestions / Re: Make Menu only for Modded items = saving BAC and other large mods

« Last post by Erkka on May 11, 2024, 09:06:38 AM »

So we don't matter to you?

Just a "small bunch".

Huh? Honestly, I can't quite see where this comes from. So let's take an another look at what has been said and what has not been said:

In any case, separate menu seems to get support from this small bunch of thread participants.

To me this does not sound derogatory, not at all. When Sami says "this small bunch of thread participants" I read it as saying:

OK, earlier there was a mention that there have been 524 downloads for the mod, so let's assume that as a guideline to estimate the number of users. And then we have 6 members of the modding community participating in this thread. That means we have heard the opinion of 1.2% of the modding community.
[EDIT: while I was writing this we got the 7th voice, PALUs opinion]

Is 1.2% a small bunch? Is six persons a small bunch? Or should that somehow be felt as an insult, a way of saying "your opinion does not matter?" Honestly, sounds a bit off to me. And, the "ouch you hurt my feelings!" is always a tricky path to walk along - if one chooses to do it, then it probably would also be beneficial to start with spelling correctly the name of lead developer. It is only four letters, so shouldn't be that hard to spell, so if one constantly writes it in a wrong way, should that be taken as a sign of ignorance, derogatory gesture of non-mattering? Does not sound very constructive to me, better just focus on the actual facts that have been said, and work on the subject matter itself.

So, what we have then, at the moment:

- a suggestion to add a separate hotkey to bring up only the modded crafting recipes
- roughly 5 members saying that they support the idea
- one member saying that it would not be so very important for them, as they prefer to just update the mod code themselves to adapt to the new versions of UrW
- Sami signaling that he is still open to consider the idea, just saying that to implement it would take some extra work on his part - and that the amount of that extra work is probably a bit more than just a few lines of code.

What we do NOT know:

1. of the 518 mod users who have not commented in this thread, how many of them see that an extra hotkey would solve their problems
2. and how many of them see that the top priority should be just to have the mod actively maintained, so that it would stay compatible with the new versions of UrW

And the way I understand it, Sami mentioning about "small bunch" is a reference to the situation 1. - scientifically speaking, critically thinking, we have no way of knowing if our gallup of 6 people out of 524 gives an accurate representation of the general public mood or not. Not saying that the voice of 6 people does not matter, not insisting that it is not aligned with the majority. Just reminding that given the current evidence we can make an educated guess, not knowing for certain. And there is nothing wrong with it - in any case life is mostly about making decisions based on uncertain evidence.

Lastly, to me it still looks like that even in the case Sami added that extra hotkey to the vanilla game, it would not do very much to solve the situation 2, which probably needs to be addressed separately - at least if in the modding community there are people who care enough about large mods like BAC to maintain the mods. But if it so happens that there is no active modder to maintain a mod, then that just is the way things are at the moment? But, personally I see that mods matter, and modders matter, and modders matter to other modders, so it would seem rather natural that this leads to mods being maintained and updated to stay aligned with the new versions of the game.

6

Suggestions / Re: Make Menu only for Modded items = saving BAC and other large mods

« Last post by PALU on May 11, 2024, 08:58:05 AM »

Yes, I think a separate space for mods would be quite useful.

When mod functionality gets implemented into the game, mods ought to phase the mod version(s) out, and it would be useful if the mods then contained "translation" recipes for a transition period. Mod maintainers have limited amount of time available, though, so what's desirable might not be what's reasonable at all times.

Mostly it's up to the mod maintainers to adapt to the changes in the game, but a mod space seems like a reasonable game support (when "resources" are available to provide it).

I don't think it would hurt for the developers to look at mods occasionally to get some additional perspective on intended new functionality. Not as "this is how it has to be", but rather to provide aspects they may not have thought of. Also, a proper implementation would not be restricted by the same constraints mods have. However, the developers obviously have to manage their time, and looking at mods may well end up in the "no time for this now" bucket constantly.

7

Suggestions / Re: Make Menu only for Modded items = saving BAC and other large mods

« Last post by JP_Finn on May 11, 2024, 01:40:56 AM »

Bry, I think you missed the joke in the recipe. 5minutes with %50% skill boost and 0 effort too. I half expected it also to include [phys:stance]

8

Bug reports / Of Wolf and Woman

« Last post by JP_Finn on May 10, 2024, 11:57:35 PM »

Not sure if intentional, but seems like the wolf spawned for the quest, might end up dying anyways... when it spawns on river, during Swidden's thinning ice.

Character got to the area, heard wolf howl NE, while on the wrong side of river. I waited for some days, and the river cleared. Went looking for the wolf for several days, but no tracks, no howls. Lo and behold, it'd gotten (or spawned) on thin ice and drowned.

I do not have a usable save to try and recreate this.
Animals tend to stay away of water, maybe have them stay off thin ice too? Very least don't have them spawn on thin ice.

Edit: Made it back to the village, there's no option to tell the woman that the wolf is dead.

9

Suggestions / Re: Make Menu only for Modded items = saving BAC and other large mods

« Last post by Brygun on May 10, 2024, 09:34:51 PM »

In any case, separate menu seems to get support from this small bunch of thread participants.
But it really doesn't happen just like this:
.Modders Make Menu. "Make menu" [effort:0] *CODING* %50%  /5m/
{Make menu}

You asked for the modding community input.

So we don't matter to you?

Just a "small bunch".

10

Suggestions / Re: Make Menu only for Modded items = saving BAC and other large mods

« Last post by Sami on May 10, 2024, 11:02:02 AM »

Good to hear more discussion and opinions on this matter.
There seem to be some differencies in how people perceive the modifications working in the game world, and from devs point of view it gets a few more extra layers and viewpoints to it.

To pinpoint it; modding code modifies the existing elements, more or less. It can't modify the properties the items don't have, or to add game mechanics that don't exist. For example, items have a name, and it can be modified to anything at all, but naming cat a dog doesn't make it essentially a dog. Nevertheless, lots of things and stuff to do can be created with the modding code.

With the above in mind, one must understand that even with a separate key or limitless mod entry space the player confusion with mod created items may continue happen when new mechanics are introduced. For example, if there are modded hafts or items put together from modded heads and hafts, they aren't working as genuine multi-part hafted items in the game. (I don't know actually how the game might deal with such but maybe the hafts won't wear out, the proper head doesn't drop when the item breaks, and so on.) Confusion and frustration may follow as players who aren't into modding will have to deal with the oddly and wrongly working items. It's not a problem for those who are aware of the modding and it's underlying mechanics, and maybe can even convert items as in Plotinus's example, but with the public mods who get into hands of average players the remedy or regarding information in these cases is best to come quickly.

Surely, a separate modding make menu will make things (also updating) easier and also keep the original and modified entries nicely separate. But it may be that for an average player who's used to create modded item A from, say a new Modders Make menu, they may fail to notice it having appeared as a genuine game feature or item to the original Make menu. So the confusion and game mechanics incompatibility with the modded items is evident to happen to some extent from time to time, even if there was limitless space. But it's ok when it's remembered, understood and addressed clearly to the mod users when necessary.

In any case, separate menu seems to get support from this small bunch of thread participants.
But it really doesn't happen just like this:
.Modders Make Menu. "Make menu" [effort:0] *CODING* %50%  /5m/
{Make menu}