Recent Posts

1

Suggestions / Re: Make Menu only for Modded items = saving BAC and other large mods

« Last post by Galgana on May 03, 2024, 10:41:12 PM »

I would be satisfied with a hypothetical 'O' *MOD* parent menu. If the maximum limit were 25 submenus multiplied by 25 recipes per submenu, that should be room enough to reserve 625 modded entries.
(And the option of putting additional entries under *MAKE* and *COOKERY* menus will still exist, even if later game updates do deplete available space for custom submenus.)

But I'm wondering whether the existing menudef structure will require a new file prefix to handle items under *MOD*. Seeing that *MAKE* needs diy_, *COOKERY* needs cookery_, and the building skill menu needs biy_, it would be natural for *MOD* to need mod_.

Rather than completely cloning diy_ capabilities, it would be nice if mod_ files could, for example, extend the building entries. Currently, the building menu can only handle one recipe per construction/terrain tile type. BAC offers alternate .Shelter. recipes, but each of these must be enabled/disabled manually by editing/erasing the biy_ file prefix name in order to overwrite the default recipe when the player deems the situation to be appropriate. But this is not the only friction involved with biy mods.
If the player were to leave the modded recipe active, interacting with constructions generated on the zoom-in map would result in unintended consequences - such as failing to return the expected raw materials upon deconstruction when the game's object dictionary doesn't recognize modded item names.
In this case, it would be preferable for modded buildings built by the player to be considered distinct from buildings generated according to the default recipe.

2

Development News / Version 3.84 (stable) released

« Last post by Sami on May 03, 2024, 04:55:32 PM »

Version 3.84 (stable) is now released and live for all the supported operating systems; Windows, Linux and OS X.

This version continues the ongoing transition to make all the crafting tasks pausable, features a good deal of related crafting requirement changes, adds BOWYER skill, introduces springs as a new water source and naturally offers a fistful of bugfixes too.

In the midst of big changes in regards to pausable crafting we hope for the bugs to be scarcer than average adventurer's nutrition levels.
And whatever is encountered we do our best to maintain a swift update cycle to overcome the issues as early on as possible.

Here's the changelog, once more:

Version 3.84 (stable) changelog

** Saved characters from version 3.80-> are compatible with this version. **

- added: BOWYER skill

The bowyer skill is the ability and knowledge to make bows. Success in the skill determines the quality of the bows crafted. For migrated characters this skill is created upon the first load in this version.
Needless to say, the available craftable bows now call for BOWYER skill in their crafting.

- added: craftable Longbow

You can craft a longbow from [M]ake menu under "Weapons" category.

- added: pausable weapon crafting

Crafting of the items in [M]ake -> "Weapons" category are now pausable tasks allowing you to have breaks and continue at will later on. These weapons are stone-axe, stone knife, club, javelin, spruce quick-bow, shortbow, longbow and bowstring.
To continue paused weapon crafting use the same crafting option again standing beside the said partially finished item. Like the other partially crafted items these will remain on the ground and can be picked up only after they are finished. They are rendered with a different tint and described as "partially crafted", "half-crafted", "largely crafted" etc. when looking at them.

- changed: crafting times and requirements of certain weapons

Now that the weapon crafting is pausable the production times of certain weapons have been increased to more reasonable levels. There are also minor changes in some material or tool requirements.
The changes are as follows, but bear in mind that these are the average set values and poor tools and/or skills may very well double the actual production times.

* Stone-axe

Stone-axe gets the greatest time increase in the production time as on average it now takes 50 hours to make one. That's a lot, but it really is a slow process to get the stone blade knapped and grinded out to shape that is efficient for felling trees.
Thus, stone-axe now becomes a survival option which you won't take up too lightly, but only in extreme need. Crafting a stone-axe now also needs another stone for final sharpening and polishing. Also, the previous requirement for rope has been replaced with strong cordage requirement. This means you can also use for example spruce withes for securing the head in place in the handle.

* Stone knife

It now takes 5 hours on average to make and also requires a stone for final sharpening.

* Javelin

It now takes 2 hour on average to make.

* Shortbow

It now takes 12 hours on average to make. The time increase is signficant compared to the earlier, and only a skilled bowyer with quality tools may manage to craft a shortbow in one day. With mediocre skills and tools it's a process of several work days.

* Longbow

It takes 18 hours on average to make. Thus, crafting a longbow is a process of several work days even for a skilled bowyer.

* Bowstring

It now takes 2 hours on average to make a bowstring from strands of yarn, and 30 minutes on average from a ready-made cord. When using a ready-made cord it often needs to be thinned down to suitable thickness so it's not just tying of the knots.

- added: BOWSTRING game encyclopedia (F1) entry

- updated: SHORTBOW and LONGBOW game encyclopedia (F1) entries

- added: pausable haft crafting

Crafting of the spear, axe and shovel hafts are now pausable tasks.

- added: pausable item trap crafting and loop snare batch production

Crafting of the paw-board fox trap and loop snare are now pausable tasks. There are also some changes as follows;

* Paw-board

Crafting time has been increased to three hours.

* Loop snare

Loop snares can be made in batches of up to ten at a time, and it takes 20 minutes on average to craft one.

- added: pausable lumber items crafting

Crafting of the wooden stakes, staves and wood slats are now pausable tasks. There are also some changes as follows;

* Wood slat

Crafting time for a batch of 20 slats has been increased to 200 minutes.

* Wooden stake

Wooden stakes are made in sets of 5 pieces from one slender tree trunk. Previously it was 8 pieces from one trunk.

* Staff

When crafting staves one slender tree trunk can yield 3 proper straight staves. Previously it was one trunk for one staff.

- added: pausable utility article crafting for some items in the category

Crafting of the wooden shovel, birch-bark box and birch-bark basket are now pausable tasks. There are also some changes as follows;

* Wooden shovel

It is now made from a board instead of a wooden block. The crafting time has been incresed to 8 hours.

- added: springs

Springs are water sources bringing groundwater to the surface. They can be found in the terrain on zoomed-in maps at varying environments in size of one to three map tiles.
Springs do remain unfrozen even in the winter which makes them very useful water sources. A spring found in the wilderness may provide a great spot for a homestead for those who like to live in the forest further away from the lakes or rivers.
From now on the village water supply ponds are also springs. As they don't freeze they are easier to maintain and spot even in the winter.
MIGRATION NOTICE: Water supply ponds in the villages you have visited in the previous version will automatically turn into springs in this version.

- added: "behind your back" reference to asking for NPC whereabouts

When asking the whereabouts of an NPC who is close by but not seen by the player character, the people will now point out that the target NPC is "...over there, just behind your back.".

- changed: pushing allowed to locations not visible to the player character

You can now [p]ush items around regardless of the location being visible or not. This helps to maintain character's daily life also in the pitch dark low visibility conditions.

- fixed: pausable crafts in process occasionally disappearing when finishing crafting something else beside them

- fixed: possibility to remove hafts from sickles

This was mistakenly allowed. Sickles are a special case and not yet included in the hafting mechanics.

- fixed: skin item duplication if tanning got cancelled at the requirements dialog

- fixed: villagers occasionally wandering impractically far from the village area

- fixed: low quality hafts not degrading the finished hafted weapon quality correctly

You pretty much always got fine hafted weapons even with the inferior hafts.

- fixed: "Of wolf and woman" quest related NPCs selection mess

There was a rare occurrence where the said quest dialogues didn't unfold properly due to the game engine picking the related NPCs incorrectly.

- fixed: paused craft remaining time checks

There was a rare condition where the remaining time to continue paused crafting was calculated incorrectly resulting in too fast completion of items at the end of the process.

- fixed: title song playback interruptions and cracks upon the game starting

The issue was with .ogg file loading. The troublesome audio is now loaded before the title song starts, and some .ogg audio has been replaced with .wav files.

- fixed: occasional white screen flash when player character goes to sleep

- fixed: attempt to haft an invalid target item made the item to disappear

- fixed: sickles weighted too much


Sickle item weight was mistakenly set to 3 lbs. This is fixed now, and sickles weigh 1 lbs as intended.

-----

Cheers!

3

Development News / Re: Spring things, pausable things, future things

« Last post by Sami on May 03, 2024, 01:05:51 PM »

Literally waited YEARS for marriage and kids features to arrive. Can't believe it's finally in the works 

I feel your pain. There are some features that I've wanted to have for years, and they are still not there.
May sound like bit of a joke, but it's actually true.

4

Suggestions / Re: Make Menu only for Modded items = saving BAC and other large mods

« Last post by Sami on May 03, 2024, 01:01:46 PM »

Hmm. Why won't you remove the duality from BAC then? If there is somekind of hafting in BAC, what's the reason for still keeping it in there and reserving the space when there's proper in-game hafting mechanics to use.

If the intention is to have modded counterpart for everything, and not to utilize the existing resources and mechanics, it's doomed way anyway.

Cart <> Horse debate.

As the ancestral mods go back to Rain's ironworking it added the ability to make most of the in game items. This being done at a time when vanilla had no way to do so.

I do think adding into vanilla making items is good. Your own views on times, resources and coding like haft will take of course be different and that's fine. Things like pausable crafting didn't exist so we had to limit times too.

For me there's a bit strange, topsy-turvy and unpleasant attitude here, so maybe I'll rest my case and the mod community can decide whether to streamline or not to streamline, now or in the future.

--

So back to business, and now if there are modders reading this, you can pitch in. Whatever gets done with modding it has to serve large audience so custom solutions from one mods perspective aren't fair nor fruitful additions.

A suggestion was to add separate craft menu for mods to use. Right? Let's make sure I understand the proposed suggestion correctly and then brainstorm as necessary. 
So, let's say we'll make a letter O to open a blank make menu, which you can then fill with modded stuff like the current Make menu. And this would be menu that is reserved for mods only. The game craftings would appear in the exisiting Make menu, like currently. Now, if you would then fill this one modders make menu (O) with one big mod it would be..well..full. If there was a few smaller mods that you would like to put there, with custom menu entries or keys even, they would get messed up and tangled together.
If implemented like this it doesn't sound like a plausible long-term solution, or am I not understanding the suggestion?

5

Bug reports / [3.83][3.84] wp-javelin = it-brkhaft

« Last post by Galgana on May 03, 2024, 08:00:02 AM »

The hafting update had overwritten the javelin sprite.

I'm attaching the old sprite in case other players wish to revert the change.

6

Bug reports / [3.84] open mire tiles under tree lack mossy groundcover

« Last post by Galgana on May 03, 2024, 06:58:40 AM »

While exploring open mire terrain, I noticed that marshland tiles in the middle of watery areas did not have moss groundcover when the terrain generated a tree on top. But then I saw some tree-bearing tiles next to water did occasionally have moss.

I'm attaching a set of screenshots taken at 2 different open mire terrains with pine mire on the border.
Non-mossy tiles are highlighted in yellow.

I was wondering whether the absence of moss is an intended effect of the zoom-in map's terrain generation.
It raises an interesting question about the ecological mechanism by which a young spruce, specifically, uses to inhibit moss if such a tree should happen to be standing in waterlogged soil.

7

Suggestions / Re: Make Menu only for Modded items = saving BAC and other large mods

« Last post by Brygun on May 02, 2024, 08:03:56 PM »

The challenge is as new vanilla crafting methods (nets, axes, bows) there is both space needed and a duality that exists. Since a BAC install will overwrite some menus reports are players get confused as to if they dehaft with the new vanilla system they then end up in a BAC menu which doesn't use the same thing and vice versa.

Hmm. Why won't you remove the duality from BAC then? If there is somekind of hafting in BAC, what's the reason for still keeping it in there and reserving the space when there's proper in-game hafting mechanics to use.

If the intention is to have modded counterpart for everything, and not to utilize the existing resources and mechanics, it's doomed way anyway.

Cart <> Horse debate.

As the ancestral mods go back to Rain's ironworking it added the ability to make most of the in game items. This being done at a time when vanilla had no way to do so.

I do think adding into vanilla making items is good. Your own views on times, resources and coding like haft will take of course be different and that's fine. Things like pausable crafting didn't exist so we had to limit times too.

Eventually after each update the duplications would in time be dropped. However at the time of release there is a lot of jumbled things. Like BAC axe heads aren't the new vanilla axe heads. BAC axe hafts aren't the new vanilla axe hafts. Players in the middle of play get confused, frustrated and might not even see the new vanilla menus depending on which installs over the other.

Having an extra letter would let the large mod items exist separately. On a new vanilla update both could exist without that jumble. In time the mod could be updated and remove what is now duplicated by new vanilla code. Example 3.84 added more bows which were already craftable by the mods.

There is also a matter of who will be updating BAC as it might not be myself in the next few cycles. It is set up as a "community" collective and there has been other caretakers along the way. The one extra button is something that gives the large mod time to sort out without thrashing existing games when ongoing vanilla updates creates new duplicates are new principles. Principles like the cordage update and pausable crafts.

8

Suggestions / Re: Make Menu only for Modded items = saving BAC and other large mods

« Last post by Sami on May 02, 2024, 01:32:27 PM »

The number of entries is likely in the hundreds yes.
..
The make menu allows IIRC 24 letters. Of the 24 letters allowed BAC uses 22 with only about 2 unused. Thus any update which makes use of a new letter, like hafting did in 3.83 creates collision with the mod.
..
It has the production steps for gathering, smelting, forging iron to make axes, swords, metal armor, helms. There was bow making and arrow making. More items included wool making for wool clothing, retting and so on to end up with cloth clothing and bags, clay crafting for pots and containers. A collection of cooking recipes as well.

Okay, so it's hundreds, thus I believe my pondering is valid. (Are they are absolutely necessary... or could there room for quality over quantity approach, removal of some probably excess curiosities, streamlining recipes to meet more with the existing resources or make categories, and so on?)

And yes of course, any update which uses a new letter reserves that letter, it's not a surprise, but there haven't been that many new letters over the past years so I don't suspect re-organizing few letters is a problem. And as the system is as it is now, the easiest solution to fix the mod to work with the current updates is to streamline, reduce and re-organize.

I encourage and expect the ongoing vanilla adds to pull in the mod versions of things, like bow making now, into vanilla recipes. That's a good thing.|/quote]

As mentioned we don't actually follow mods. Also from dev's point of view adding new items with new mechanics that actually tie them into game world within the core level needs to be done with old-school programming. Modding is player's thing.

The challenge is as new vanilla crafting methods (nets, axes, bows) there is both space needed and a duality that exists. Since a BAC install will overwrite some menus reports are players get confused as to if they dehaft with the new vanilla system they then end up in a BAC menu which doesn't use the same thing and vice versa.

Hmm. Why won't you remove the duality from BAC then? If there is somekind of hafting in BAC, what's the reason for still keeping it in there and reserving the space when there's proper in-game hafting mechanics to use.

If the intention is to have modded counterpart for everything, and not to utilize the existing resources and mechanics, it's doomed way anyway. For example proper hafting where the item is treated in the game as the head and haft can't be created with modding. Surely an illusion of it can be created, but neglecting the item handling etc. provided by the game may lead into unexpected problems during the gameplay. And same goes for variety of items. If all of the existing, especially the hardcoded stuff, is replace by just modding it's actively breaking some game elements here and there.

So to avoid the large mod overlap with the least programming it would be good if we could have a modders second letter for making items. We could just stick large mods like BAC there. Then when the game updates, as it should, with new updated items players current games would know to continue with vanilla or BAC. Example being axe making and rehafting are not compatible between 3.82 BAC and 3.82 vanilla.

As we're very occupied with the pausable and crafting additions I don't have time to seriously consider the options, but I'll digest things when time allows.

If you do want to at least see how much was in BAC it was last updated to 3.82 so please use that version of the game. There is short adjustment needed for 3.83. No updating has been put forward for 3.84. Even a few minutes would show you the extent to what BAC grew into.

I'll have a look when time allows, and will get back then probably with better insight of the possible solutions to remedy things - which I'm afraid now also calls for cleaning up the mod code too. I get there's lots of entries, and it's been lots of work to come up with, but for me personally things that advertise themselves as having 15,000+ items and 7000+ different trinkets are are turn off for me. That's just me, though.

9

Suggestions / Re: Make Menu only for Modded items = saving BAC and other large mods

« Last post by Brygun on May 02, 2024, 05:07:45 AM »

The number of entries is likely in the hundreds yes. Its name include "and community" as there is ALOT of recipes from many of our community in it. I acted as the primary but not only curator.  Its how upto 3.82 the BAC combined kept alive mods like Rain's Ironworking, Endive Survival, Bouddia, Weaving, my own collection of oddities, Iago's whittling and many others.

The make menu allows IIRC 24 letters. Of the 24 letters allowed BAC uses 22 with only about 2 unused. Thus any update which makes use of a new letter, like hafting did in 3.83 creates collision with the mod.

It has the production steps for gathering, smelting, forging iron to make axes, swords, metal armor, helms. There was bow making and arrow making. More items included wool making for wool clothing, retting and so on to end up with cloth clothing and bags, clay crafting for pots and containers. A collection of cooking recipes as well.

Overall...

I encourage and expect the ongoing vanilla adds to pull in the mod versions of things, like bow making now, into vanilla recipes. That's a good thing.

The recipes at the times pushed the limits of what we could do like no step could take more than 8 hours due to needing food and water. One affect is that to have longer processes, like making a canoe, they had to be broken down into 8 hour steps each needing a menu item entry. Now Saami has nicely added pausable crafting. So there is some long projects which could be updated.

The challenge is as new vanilla crafting methods (nets, axes, bows) there is both space needed and a duality that exists. Since a BAC install will overwrite some menus reports are players get confused as to if they dehaft with the new vanilla system they then end up in a BAC menu which doesn't use the same thing and vice versa.

So to avoid the large mod overlap with the least programming it would be good if we could have a modders second letter for making items. We could just stick large mods like BAC there. Then when the game updates, as it should, with new updated items players current games would know to continue with vanilla or BAC. Example being axe making and rehafting are not compatible between 3.82 BAC and 3.82 vanilla.



>>>

If you do want to at least see how much was in BAC it was last updated to 3.82 so please use that version of the game. There is short adjustment needed for 3.83. No updating has been put forward for 3.84. Even a few minutes would show you the extent to what BAC grew into.

10

Suggestions / Re: Make Menu only for Modded items = saving BAC and other large mods

« Last post by Sami on May 01, 2024, 05:21:20 PM »

Without getting further into this a few things come to my mind...
Now I haven't tried BAC or other mods, except for snippets provided for bugfixing, but if it's eating up all the space there must be hundreds of entries to make - right?
If that's the case I'm just wondering are they all absolutely necessary... or could there room for quality over quantity approach, removal of some probably excess curiosities, streamlining recipes to meet more with the existing resources or make categories, and so on?

(Also, are there any "other large mods" that are found troublesome to keep up with the recent updates to the game?)